How the 'New York Times' Sandbagged Bernie Sanders - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956505]What do you mean by that? If you're a left leaning liberal like myself, You'd vote for Hiliary because she's a safe pick at this point against what could be a worse version of the Bush Administration. If you're a Right leaner, or someone that actually firmly believes in Trump, then by all means vote for him instead. Just don't be someone whose like "I'll vote for Trump only because Sanders lost."[/QUOTE] This is the problem with a two party system...

[QUOTE=Wii60;49957238]its a good idea to move to move to a country with a currently-being-destroyed economy[/QUOTE] What do you mean by that? (I'm genuinely asking) Also, fear not my not so fellow Americans, I will run for president the next term and make your country great. I have extensive knowledge and experience in politics from watching 3 seasons of house of cards.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;49957266]This is the problem with a two party system...[/QUOTE] This is a problem with first-past the post voting coupled with the terrible electoral college.

Quit calling which two candidates are gonna face eachother. Half of the country hasn't even voted yet.

[QUOTE=maeZtro;49957289]What do you mean by that? (I'm genuinely asking) Also, fear not my not so fellow Americans, I will run for president the next term and make your country great. I have extensive knowledge and experience in politics from watching 3 seasons of house of cards.[/QUOTE] the cad is dying because oil canadian friend was talking to me about it

[QUOTE=Solo Wing;49956423]Can we get a do over for this election? Like hit the "fuck this" button and get all new candidates? This election just seems dirty, for lack of a better word.[/QUOTE] This country deserves to burn at this point if it's going to have Hillary v Trump Well what it "deserves" is moot anyway because if it's them vs each other it [I]will[/I] burn [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956505]What do you mean by that? If you're a left leaning liberal like myself, You'd vote for Hiliary because she's a safe pick at this point against what could be a worse version of the Bush Administration. If you're a Right leaner, or someone that actually firmly believes in Trump, then by all means vote for him instead. Just don't be someone whose like "I'll vote for Trump only because Sanders lost."[/QUOTE] The political spectrum cannot be simply divided into "well you're either right or left", the two-party system is a joke and is broken as hell. Trump is awful. Hillary is also awful. Neither are good candidates.

[QUOTE=SpaceGhost;49957266]This is the problem with a two party system...[/QUOTE] Again. You just deal with it for the best possible outcome, rather than keep complaining about it. Complaining doesn't get shit fixed, doing shit does. [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=phygon;49957386]This country deserves to burn at this point if it's going to have Hillary v Trump Well what it "deserves" is moot anyway because if it's them vs each other it [I]will[/I] burn [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] The political spectrum cannot be simply divided into "well you're either right or left", the two-party system is a joke and is broken as hell. Trump is awful. Hillary is also awful. Neither are good candidates.[/QUOTE] 1. Shut up. You're letting the Republicans win by simple being apathetic with your "Fuck everything let it all die" attitude. You want the country you're sitting in right now to burn? Yeah I don't think that'll turn out as good as you want it to be. Also remember, alot of shit in the world is tied to America. We go down, they go down with us. It won't be the country burning, the world will burn somewhat. 2. Not many people like it yes, but there's not alot that can be done to change it. Everyone voted Demo or Repub, been that way for ages. No one ever votes independent. Am I the only American that actually feels like sitting at my computer and moaning about my prodigal Santa Claus losing an election ISN'T the end of the fucking world? I've leaned since a young age that you can't just demand the world give us the best of the best. Sometimes we're going to have to pick between two things we don't like, and just pick the one we think is least worse. Plus it helps me that I understand the political structure enough to know that this is business as usual and it's not worth crying over milk that's been spilt for two days.

[QUOTE=Swilly;49956883]I'll just move to Canada.[/QUOTE] you should, it's a better country all in all

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956874]Exactly why I'm also here saying it's best to just get ready to cut our losses and vote for the person who won't bring us back to the Bush years.[/QUOTE] Your entire rhetoric of "if you dont vote for hillary you waste your vote/help trump" is so ass backwards and it astounds me that you don't understand why

So basically we're looking at a known manipulative liar as our next president? Trump isn't going to win I feel because even his own party hates him and are trying their hardest to stop him. Yeah, I don't feel good about any of this at all. I'm morally obliged not to vote for either, honestly. America is taking a pretty bad turn.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;49957798]Your entire rhetoric of "if you dont vote for hillary you waste your vote/help trump" is so ass backwards and it astounds me that you don't understand why[/QUOTE] Is it ass backwards though? Are you one of those people that think a two party system is a completely awful thing? Like any other political system a two party system has its advantages and disadvantages.

[QUOTE=InvaderNouga;49957827]Is it ass backwards though? Are you one of those people that think a two party system is a completely awful thing? Like any other political system a two party system has its advantages and disadvantages.[/QUOTE] Wut? I was just pointing just that voting for someone based on the likelihood of them winning sorta defeats the entire point of voting in the first place. But please continue to put words in my mouth.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;49957870]Wut? I was just pointing just that voting for someone based on the likelihood of them winning sorta defeats the entire point of voting in the first place. But please continue to put words in my mouth.[/QUOTE] Well that's why I was asking, I only assumed based off of what you said.

Our entire system and the way it is setup is a good solid reason we should have a limit on who can vote. If people vote for Hillary because "lol she a woman/bills wife/ democrat/welfare check" or vote for Trump because "gosh darn mexicans/ jerbs/ he funny/ make murica great again" then those people are just a walking vote to the political parties and not a concerned citizen. If we had some sort of qualification test or requirement to cull any of the people who don't care what happens then the DNC and RNC would start panicing about who they try to appeal to.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49957899]Our entire system and the way it is setup is a good solid reason we should have a limit on who can vote. If people vote for Hillary because "lol she a woman/bills wife/ democrat/welfare check" or vote for Trump because "gosh darn mexicans/ jerbs/ he funny/ make murica great again" then those people are just a walking vote to the political parties and not a concerned citizen. If we had some sort of qualification test or requirement to cull any of the people who don't care what happens then the DNC and RNC would start panicing about who they try to appeal to.[/QUOTE]I know this sounds reasonable but that just isn't a democracy.

[QUOTE=TuLiq;49957915]I know this sounds reasonable but that just isn't a democracy.[/QUOTE] Our democracy is a farce as it is. The electoral college and private money from corporations makes the popular vote pointless.

Next 4 years are going to be really damn interesting, no matter who wins shit will change quite drastically, and I doubt it's for the better.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49957920]Our democracy is a farce as it is. The electoral college and private money from corporations makes the popular vote pointless.[/QUOTE] if you think restricting popular vote would accomplish anything good, you're wrong. that's how you would start another civil war.

[QUOTE=rilez;49956856]Wait until we get closer to the general... a lot can happen between now and then Totally dismissing Trump has proven to be a terrible choice this cycle[/QUOTE] Yeah, Hillary would probably win right now if the election were next week but it isn't. Most forecasters predict she could fall out of favor and lose if China's economy goes fubar or another San Bernardino happened

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49957899]Our entire system and the way it is setup is a good solid reason we should have a limit on who can vote. If people vote for Hillary because "lol she a woman/bills wife/ democrat/welfare check" or vote for Trump because "gosh darn mexicans/ jerbs/ he funny/ make murica great again" then those people are just a walking vote to the political parties and not a concerned citizen. If we had some sort of qualification test or requirement to cull any of the people who don't care what happens then the DNC and RNC would start panicing about who they try to appeal to.[/QUOTE] The same 'qualification test' would also disenfranchise a significant number of Bernie's supporters, or at least the Bernie bros, you know.

[QUOTE=Kyle902;49957798]Your entire rhetoric of "if you dont vote for hillary you waste your vote/help trump" is so ass backwards and it astounds me that you don't understand why[/QUOTE] I fucking understand why, but what else can be done? Can you name a better answer? Just sit down, sing kum-bayah and talk about how the man sucks man?

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49957920]Our democracy is a farce as it is. The electoral college and private money from corporations makes the popular vote pointless.[/QUOTE] Our democracy isn't a "farce", we do not have a direct democracy but a constitutional republic (which is still a democracy.) The popular vote was never meant to elect the President and has been evident since the birth of the country.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49958102]I fucking understand why, but what else can be done? Can you name a better answer? Just sit down, sing kum-bayah and talk about how the man sucks man?[/QUOTE] Of course I'm not saying we should stand by. But at the same time you shouldn't be helping to continue a flawed shitty system be flawed and shitty.

[QUOTE=LtKyle2;49957920]Our democracy is a farce as it is. The electoral college and private money from corporations makes the popular vote pointless.[/QUOTE] Current democracy is based on the collective wisdow from the individuals ignorance. I would love to see some sort of general education happening, make sure that voters know a bare minimum.

[QUOTE=Starpluck;49956542]No; Trump is not going to win. Clinton is leading Trump in virtually every single poll. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/SMgz9lR.png[/IMG][/QUOTE] I don't know how accurate the national polls are in predicting the next president of the US, but I think people should take it with a grain of salt, since the general election is not a popularity contest but a battleground for states with the most delegates including swing states. Right now, based on the electoral map, Clinton still has the upper hand.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956545]That's a fucking stupid thing to say. "I'm going to just abstain and allow the worse of the two to get in, fuck everyone else and the country." Shit sucks I know, but I'm not going to just throw my hands in the air and say "fuck it" and just watch my country get burned again. I'm going to vote, I'm going to vote for Hiliary, because writing in Sanders, or abstaining myself is just allowing Donald "I'm coo coo for Cocoa Puffs" Trump. Yes she's shady, but she is a Liberal Democrat, she did promise the continuation of the Obama administration, which is a quiet and STABLE administration. Let's be honest here, worst that'll happen, we'll get four years of a mediocre President where year one is just her bathing in the lime light of "FURST WOMAN PREZ" before we then vote for a better president later.[/QUOTE] I don't want to participate in a political system that doesn't represent me and is full of shady tricks. Trump nor Clinton represents me, and I don't care if either get into office. The government is a failure and has been for a long while now. [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956545]At the end of the day, we have to vote with who we got.[/quote] "At the end of the day, you've gotta choose between getting hit with that lead pipe or metal bat." [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956545]And what Scare-mongering? Trump really would just fuck this country up to 11, you really want to live in that country?[/quote] You eventually gotta let Americans touch the stove to know they don't do it again. [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956545]And don't give me that fucking bullshit line of "Ohh, I'll just move to Canada!" You can't afford to move to Canada, you can't afford the time, the trucks to move, the passports needed, the time, and the immigration process.[/quote] I wouldn't move. [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956545]I've learned to deal with the shit I'm given and work it into something workable for the better of our nation. Not because I want to, but because I have no choice but to work with it.[/quote] You choose not to opt for silence because you think that silence isn't valuable. [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956545]You can sit at your computer, arms crosses, pouting about Sanders not getting elected, but eventually you must move on and understand that we either vote Hiliary, or we get fucked for 4 years.[/quote] I see it as either way, we're fucked for four years. Both people are the same but for different parties. People can promise anything, but it's the status quo we're most likely to get. And that status quo is composed of ego, lies, and bullshit. No thanks, I don't want any part of whatever it is you guys are doing. [QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956545]In fact didn't Sanders say something to the effect of "If I lose, for god's sake please vote for Hiliary"?[/QUOTE] Sure, but I'm not listening. I don't see the point. We always get the same thing.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956452]1. If you mean write in for Sanders during the main election, you're just giving it to Trump then. 2. How do we get money out of Politics? There's always a difference between saying "let's do x" and actually explaining how we do x, and I'm getting tired of people saying "WE NEED TO DO THIS TO FIX THINGS" without really explaining how we can do that exactly, and if it can even work.[/QUOTE] It's no easy feat, but there's big steps that can be taken. Get someone who isn't a crazy person in the supreme court so Citizens United can get overturned making superPACs illegal, place a cap on the total donations any candidate can receive, increase the public funding for elections, change the laws on political advertising to something similar to the UK, increase regulations on the FEC, force public officials to publicise their funding and their trips, legislate to make corporations publicise all political spending, make it illegal for elected officials to become highly paid political lobbyists (a tactic a lot of corporations use to get a politician in their pocket), etc. I've never seen a robust solution to get money completely out of elections, but we can do better than the oligarchical nightmare of US politics, and it's defeatist and wrong to suggest there's nothing we can do to improve it..

[QUOTE=wauterboi;49958651]I don't want to participate in a political system that doesn't represent me and is full of shady tricks. Trump nor Clinton represents me, and I don't care if either get into office. The government is a failure and has been for a long while now. You eventually gotta let Americans touch the stove to know they don't do it again. I see it as either way, we're fucked for four years. Both people are the same but for different parties. People can promise anything, but it's the status quo we're most likely to get. And that status quo is composed of ego, lies, and bullshit. No thanks, I don't want any part of whatever it is you guys are doing. Sure, but I'm not listening. I don't see the point. We always get the same thing.[/QUOTE] I am all for the idea of electing Trump over Clinton. Right off the bat, it's a huge "fuck you" to the Democratic party. On top of that, it's a nice wrench in the Republicans gears. Both parties can eat shit, and reap the chaos that they sew, hopefully sparking a bit of reform in the way they present their candidates next cycle. I would bet that if Clinton or Trump are elected, they won't stand a chance for re-election in four years. In reality, neither of them are going to spark the apocalypse. Trump will be kept in check by both parties, Clinton would be roadblocked by the Republicans every inch of the way, as well as probably face impeachment depending on her VP pick. But, everyone who dogpiles behind Trump and orgasms at the thought of his presidency needs to definitely see what it's like, same for Clinton. If they want to light a fire that big, they are going to get burned, and they need to feel the burn. (Honestly, no Sanders pun intended) You cannot logically paint either as acceptable candidates, I've truly tried, it doesn't make sense. A total shit show once the electoral college came into play, I'm sure, but exciting nonetheless. My alternate best scenario, if Sanders fails at the Democratic nomination, is a joint effort between Jill Stein and Bernie Sanders with the Green Party. If the Sanders supporters who refuse Clinton got behind a third party like this, it would send a very large signal. In the best case, Sanders could campaign with the Green Party to increase their publicity. It would be a very interesting situation. [editline]18th March 2016[/editline] Another thing I just thought of that is nothing more than a pipe dream is if the RNC does something to block Trump from the nomination, and he goes independent for the election, Sanders could follow suit on that easily. I would love to see a Cruz vs Clinton vs Trump vs Sanders. That would be an election for the history books, as well as spreading out voters to see where they truly put their votes.

[QUOTE=Pvt. Martin;49956855]And what Scare-mongering? Trump really would just fuck this country up to 11, you really want to live in that country?[/QUOTE] I don't even know how to internalize this irony.

[QUOTE=Saxon;49958041]Yeah, Hillary would probably win right now if the election were next week but it isn't. Most forecasters predict she could fall out of favor and lose if China's economy goes fubar or another San Bernardino happened[/QUOTE] Now I'm interested to know where you heard this. But yes, the Democratic party is in dire straits because Hillary just doesn't excite the party during a time with record low democratic turnout and has bad reputation with independants.