College Students Mistakenly Believe They're Ready for the Workplace in a survey
100 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Flem;42688631]A degree doesn't mean fuck all, if you have knowledge and experience who gives a fuck how brainy you think you are.
Years studying or years in a job, I chose the job route after A Levels and im doing fucking dandy.[/QUOTE]
It's true, Degrees really aren't that important. And they are certainly not mandatory. I work with employers, and experience is truly preferred. It's quite often people with qualifications are actually very bad at what they're applying for, and why practical experience should be sought after, rather than documents saying you can do something.
Well, unless like the other guy said, you're going into something specific. But I can't imagine a lot of people on FP are interested in those jobs anyway.
[QUOTE=B!N4RY;42689799]Except having no degrees will pretty much cap you at a certain point in terms of salary and job position and you won't be able to move out of it without a proper degree. You might think you're doing fine as of now, but people with a proper degree and education in the right field will be able to work in much higher end positions when combined with the same amount of work experiance as you. You need both experience and education to receive premium salary.[/QUOTE]
This only applies to certain fields though is the thing, a premium salary might not be desirable anyways (i.e. I would honestly have no personal reason now or in the future to desire more than $50k/yr) especially as more and more people prefer living in more affordable means vs. the previous popular option of just getting as big of a house and family as possible, and for many people the cost of education and time required to invest in it is much more outweighed by the higher pay you can only get anyways when you are experienced in the field and have the degree.
I.E. it's possible to get a design degree for around $80-100k at a private and prestigious design school that takes you 4-5 years to complete. You may or may not get a job when you graduate despite this high cost, because what really matters is your direct applicable skills to the field (the degree just makes it easier to get past HR, which is only an issue when you have no connections anyways).
VS. spending about $5,000 on education workshop mentoring programs from established masters in the industry, spending that 4-5 years working on actual projects for charity or low price, studying on your own time, spending time and money towards meetups, conventions, shows, etc where you can build connections and peers, etc.
Not having a degree is still a liability in this case but your body of work and your work expeirence is going to be much more valuble compared to the guy with a formal education but none of those conenctions/work experience/drive/etc. Employers like people who look like they are self driven, motivated, and capable-of-figuring-things-out people. More often than not, those who simply go to college to get a degree aren't like that at all by the time they graduate. So when you are hiring for a new designer, you're going to prefer the guy without a formal education but with a lot of proven self-motivated energy and skill directly in the field you are hiring for. You simply will get better results.
Even if you have to start out at lower pay because you aren't a degree holder, you'll still end up winning compared to the dude who now must spend a huge chunk of his paycheck paying a debt over the course of his life. A higher paying degree is not worth more, when it has strings attached to it (debt).
Again this doesn't apply to every field. You pretty much need higher education to get a job in science and technology as a baseline, same with educational fields. The problem with college education in the modern world is that people have this misconception that every degree is worth a lifetime of debt when the reality is only a good sized handful are, and many others you can often get the job spending those 4-5 years building your skills on your own time without having the debt. It also doesn't help that a lot of jobs that absolutely require intimiate higher educational knowledge to perform, aren't the kind of jobs that are the most popular or in-demand to pursue.
Of course, best case scenario is do what I do. I'm getting a degree but getting it cheap from a local university which means I'm not going to have to worry about debt, and doing it in such a way that I focus on my own work and work experience done on my own time over the university work. This means I don't get straight A's but I'm not failing hard or finding my classes useless either. It helps that it turns out employers don't really care about your GPA in school, school just gets you a degree which helps make it easier to get past HR (but not actually get the job unless you have skills learned in school/outside of school you can directly apply to the job). By all means though if you have a 4.0 put it on your resume as that is a nice bullet point to make things easier. Just don't expect employers to quiz your are care too deeply about your GPA when you interview unless its just a desk job that anyone could fill. Source: I have an older friend who works in biotech and studies genes under a microscope and he's never had or heard of a single employer in that field that has ever cared about your GPA.
[QUOTE=Splash Attack;42690538]Yeah, I'm currently at a community college working on a transfer degree to go to a private university and finish my bachelor's. Last year, my family got back in tax returns practically the entire cost of my tuition there.
It's just a shame that I can't finish my degree for that price.[/QUOTE]
i'm poor enough that i get several thousand dollars in financial aid for community college when the cost of schooling is only around $1000 a quarter. i get well over $1000 in refund money for going. technically it is meant to be spent on "school expenses" i think, but i don't think the doe really tries to track that money since they just hand me a check to put in my credit union account.
[QUOTE=imptastick;42690754]I always feel like a lot of people dont understand how jobs work, there are a ton of people I see around my college that are barely passing on a business degree and think they will be set for life. If your view point is "C's" get degrees and you dont do anything outside of the standard curriculum to prepare yourself you probably are in trouble.[/QUOTE]
GPA isn't taken seriously in the actual job world. However its likely that if people are just floating by with C's and not doing any initiative on their own part outside of class or not actually learning anything, then they aren't going to hold a job anyways. It depends on why that student has C's everywhere. If its because of a lack of drive or willingness to try, then sure.
[QUOTE=KorJax;42691006]GPA isn't taken seriously in the actual job world. However its likely that if people are just floating by with C's and not doing any initiative on their own part outside of class or not actually learning anything, then they aren't going to hold a job anyways. It depends on why that student has C's everywhere. If its because of a lack of drive or willingness to try, then sure.[/QUOTE]
I am not saying it is the grade itself that will screw them over, just the fact that they do the bare minimum in each class because they assume having the same degree automatically means they have the same chances of being successful.
Degrees mean less in certain industries than they do in others.
Take oil and gas for example, you can go to uni and do a 4 year course in mechanical engineering then go immediately offshore, but there's no way in hell you would be put in a higher position than anyone who's been working offshore for 5-10 years.
In certain industries, a degree is a piece of paper that allows you in to the industry, but you are in no way ready to assume a high-up position.
[QUOTE=KorJax;42691006]GPA isn't taken seriously in the actual job world. However its likely that if people are just floating by with C's and not doing any initiative on their own part outside of class or not actually learning anything, then they aren't going to hold a job anyways. It depends on why that student has C's everywhere. If its because of a lack of drive or willingness to try, then sure.[/QUOTE]
i was a c and d student in high school(before i dropped out) because i didn't give a fuck. i knew most of what was being taught to me and tended to ace tests but i didn't see the point in actually working on my grades. i didn't need grades and i still don't think i really need grades to gauge my own competence.
Seems like every company just wants to employ the experienced wealthy super-geniuses and couldn't care less about anyone else. Unless you have the right talents, degrees, and you play your cards right, they want nothing to do with you.
[QUOTE=Mbbird;42690816]There are MANY fields in which you need a degree. Knowledge in the fields of science, technology, and medicine are not just things you pick up on accident. I feel it's an insult that I even need to remind some of you of that.[/QUOTE]
You need to keep in mind though there are MANY fields where a degree is nice but not needed (even if this isn't stated), and a small handful of fields where its not needed at all but people still do degrees in them.
You must also keep in mind that science/technology/medicine are all nice career paths, but I'd argue the majority of the workforce out there is not wanting to be in them.
In the end though all that matters is how good you are at whatever you study in. If you are in the top 1% in the country/world in the field you studied in, no matter how obscure, and you are truely dedicated to it, you will get a job regardless of what the overall labor force needs. The thing is, if you are only average at what you do and don't have any serious desires or inspiration towards any particular career path, its better to stick to career paths that have more lenience (aka demand).
[editline]29th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=imptastick;42691062]I am not saying it is the grade itself that will screw them over, just the fact that they do the bare minimum in each class because they assume having the same degree automatically means they have the same chances of being successful.[/QUOTE]
Exactly. this thinking right here is why college can get away with being so expensive in the US and why degree holders aren't as valuable.
I never went to college and im a tech administrator at a law firm with 5 locations across ontario.
Go figure.
I've done a couple of internships to prepare me for the real job, and my degree got me those internships.
Good grades can open doors though. At my college if you make high enough grades to enter the honors program you get a ton of perks. Examples would be: early registration so you get the best classes/professors, honors only courses that often include travel/study abroad, more internship opportunities, more independent research opportunities, face to face meetings with the heads of the college, etc. Plus some groups that allow you to make connections with the top people in your field, such as some academic fraternities or societies within a set discipline, have GPA requirements.
[QUOTE=imptastick;42691241]Good grades can open doors though. At my college if you make high enough grades to enter the honors program you get a ton of perks. Examples would be: early registration so you get the best classes/professors, honors only courses that often include travel/study abroad, more internship opportunities, more independent research opportunities, face to face meetings with the heads of the college, etc. Plus some groups that allow you to make connections with the top people in your field, such as some academic fraternities or societies within a set discipline, have GPA requirements.[/QUOTE]
when good grades provide tangible benefits then i am willing to try. in college i get good grades as well since i actually have a desire to be there(the classes are voluntary) and i am personally driven to study, work, and achieve.
[QUOTE=KorJax;42691126]Exactly. this thinking right here is why college can get away with being so expensive in the US and why degree holders aren't as valuable.[/QUOTE]
Treating education as a business and raising a society to believe that going through this business for a piece of paper is absolutely necessary leads to education being more expensive and less effective with less motivated people taking part. Who would have ever guessed..
College is pointless, just another way to let idiots learn nothing and pay everything for the useless knowledge they will get.
[QUOTE=ridinmybike;42691830]College is pointless, just another way to let idiots learn nothing and pay everything for the useless knowledge they will get.[/QUOTE]
Depends on the college, the major, and the student. I have learned a ton of stuff in college and got hands on experience I could not get on my own. Also for some careers you cant even start at the bottom without a degree, especially in STEM fields.
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Plus the way this is phrased looks angsty or at least like you are trying to be edgy.
[QUOTE=Flem;42688631]A degree doesn't mean fuck all, if you have knowledge and experience who gives a fuck how brainy you think you are.
Years studying or years in a job, I chose the job route after A Levels and im doing fucking dandy.[/QUOTE]
its about opportunities. if you remain short-sighted and just focus on your job then thats cool, but that's all youll amount to.
getting a degree means in the very least having another opportunity.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;42688836]tbh this sounds cunty, but this is kind of amusing to me since a lot of the dudes and dudettes going to uni in my social circle have a very toffee nosed attitude about it, because basically they are still living like they are in high school - i.e no real risk (or sense of gain for that matter) financially, their parents still pay for them whenever they need it, they spend more time focusing on their social lives than they do their education, all while having this facile attitude that they will be guaranteed a "great" job once they leave uni because of their degrees (if they complete them ofc)
Meanwhile good friend of mine they gave shit about leaving school early is a diesel fitter and is laughing all the way to the bank because at 21 he's earning the kind of money they probably won't be earning for 5+ years assuming they do get good jobs out of it.
I knew i should've listened to that old dude saying get a trade because they are going to be in demand in the future.[/QUOTE]
vocational technical school master education
going for a plumbing license and i'll probably make as much as a doctor or more without the massive debt.
I was initially going to get a degree in Business until I realized I wasn't that interested in most of the prospective career choices that a person with a bachelors in general administration have (such as retail store management)
Now, I'm doing Gen Ed for a year or two before moving to a Uni to major in Psychology. I know I could make it in the "real world" with a "real job" right now, but I want to do something I'm interested in and have an edge in. Plus, STEM fields seem more fit for someone like me who doesn't have much of an interest or advantage in physical labor.
unless you luck it out, a degree is a major booster. workplaces like experience, but to get a lot of that experience, you need a degree in the first place
if you absolutely don't want to go through getting a degree, then you need to get yer foot stuck in the door at any opportunity
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;42693170]vocational technical school master education
going for a plumbing license and i'll probably make as much as a doctor or more without the massive debt.[/QUOTE]
There's a massive push for trades education in a lot of countries now because so few people are actually getting qualified for the trade they are going in to, or just don't consider them. Apparently they are very good earners if you don't suck shit at your job, self employment is common and you don't necessarily even need offices or shit.
And yet people still don't consider them good career paths. If it weren't for me preferring computing, an education in electrical repair and shit would have probably been my focus. Everyone needs an electrician who can actually fix shit.
[editline]30th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;42693312]unless you luck it out, a degree is a major booster. workplaces like experience, but to get a lot of that experience, you need a degree in the first place
if you absolutely don't want to go through getting a degree, then you need to get yer foot stuck in the door at any opportunity[/QUOTE]
Degrees are a great place to start if you want to do internships at big names to get experience smaller places will care about. Shit, just being at uni gives you a ton of experience both academically (allowing you to do research roles better) and professionally (along with life shit like not killing yourself whilst cooking and not renting shithole housing). Just from doing a module on my course well I've been given a internship.
[QUOTE=ridinmybike;42691830]College is pointless, just another way to let idiots learn nothing and pay everything for the useless knowledge they will get.[/QUOTE]
Hi I went to college, I graduate in December, and going to college helped me figure out what I wanted to do with my life, gave me the foundation to get an internship in that field, and ultimately gave me the interpersonal skills to turn the internship into a full-time position.
General education is arguably useless knowledge in some aspects (I will never use biology) but making some blanket statement like this shows you have no understanding of any of the benefits of going to university.
[QUOTE=Flem;42688631]A degree doesn't mean fuck all, if you have knowledge and experience who gives a fuck how brainy you think you are.
Years studying or years in a job, I chose the job route after A Levels and im doing fucking dandy.[/QUOTE]
Years in an entry level job, where even after years you still have shit pay. Or years studying, and then getting offered and entry level job already higher than the guy without a degree has after a couple of years.
Now this obviously doesn't hold in all fields. For instance craftsmen and handymen tend to get really nice pay. But for most fields it holds true.
[QUOTE=Flem;42688631]A degree doesn't mean fuck all, if you have knowledge and experience who gives a fuck how brainy you think you are.
Years studying or years in a job, I chose the job route after A Levels and im doing fucking dandy.[/QUOTE]
"i didnt get a degree because degrees are useless"
i can tell you're very experienced with degrees and their uses
All I'm getting out of the anti-college angst in this thread is "I didn't need one to get my first job opportunity, therefor all degrees and all education post high school is useless in all fields of work."
It's not a surprising fact that you don't need a degree for everything, but the VAST majority of the people in this thread that are arguing against degrees are arguing against ALL degrees and ALL forms of education past that of what is minimally required by law because 'fcuk the system' or something like that.
Most people I know who study are stuck up turds, all paid for of course by their parents.
It's all a matter of opportunities, engineering and science/medicine you need further education because it is EXPECTED. Business, Arts and Crafts you can self teach, learn by trial and error.
I'm anit-college because of elitist behavior that is a bi-product of it, I consider half the education system unnecessary and a racket to make some big bookoo bucks off of middle class idiots.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42691083]i was a c and d student in high school(before i dropped out) because i didn't give a fuck. i knew most of what was being taught to me and tended to ace tests but i didn't see the point in actually working on my grades. i didn't need grades and i still don't think i really need grades to gauge my own competence.[/QUOTE]
its not about gauging your own competence though. a smart person knows himself to be a fool
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694466]Most people I know who study are stuck up turds, all paid for of course by their parents.
It's all a matter of opportunities, engineering and science/medicine you need further education because it is EXPECTED. Business, Arts and Crafts you can self teach, learn by trial and error.
I'm anit-college because of elitist behavior that is a bi-product of it, I consider half the education system unnecessary and a racket to make some big bookoo bucks off of middle class idiots.[/QUOTE]
well the thing is you can be anti-system, but to be anti-system means to not accepted by the system
and being outside of the system can make life very difficult
That's why I love being a CS major. Tangible skills are so worth it nowadays with the job market and all. To be fair, very little of the CS I've learned in college has applied to what I've learned/used in internships.
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But yeah, degree inflation is horrible. There are so many jobs that shouldn't expect applicants to have a degree - this article's about a law firm hiring office clerks with college degrees for $10/hr. Makes it nearly impossible to pay back loans, etc.
[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/20/business/college-degree-required-by-increasing-number-of-companies.html[/url]
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694466]Most people I know who study are stuck up turds, all paid for of course by their parents.
It's all a matter of opportunities, engineering and science/medicine you need further education because it is EXPECTED. Business, Arts and Crafts you can self teach, learn by trial and error.
I'm anit-college because of elitist behavior that is a bi-product of it, I consider half the education system unnecessary and a racket to make some big bookoo bucks off of middle class idiots.[/QUOTE]
i go to college, but i'm not stuck up about it being paid for by financial aid, and i have to study to keep that aid. your college acquaintances are more likely to hang out with people they can study with, making them come off as stuck up.
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