College Students Mistakenly Believe They're Ready for the Workplace in a survey
100 replies, posted
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;42688836]tbh this sounds cunty, but this is kind of amusing to me since a lot of the dudes and dudettes going to uni in my social circle have a very toffee nosed attitude about it, because basically they are still living like they are in high school - i.e no real risk (or sense of gain for that matter) financially, their parents still pay for them whenever they need it, they spend more time focusing on their social lives than they do their education, all while having this facile attitude that they will be guaranteed a "great" job once they leave uni because of their degrees (if they complete them ofc)
Meanwhile good friend of mine they gave shit about leaving school early is a diesel fitter and is laughing all the way to the bank because at 21 he's earning the kind of money they probably won't be earning for 5+ years assuming they do get good jobs out of it.
I knew i should've listened to that old dude saying get a trade because they are going to be in demand in the future.[/QUOTE]
The demand for trades, electricians, welders, plumbers, sheet metal workers, roofers, ect are pretty high, actually a lot of them are experiencing shortages and need a lot of people here in the states.
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694466]Most people I know who study are stuck up turds, all paid for of course by their parents.
It's all a matter of opportunities, engineering and science/medicine you need further education because it is EXPECTED. Business, Arts and Crafts you can self teach, learn by trial and error.
I'm anit-college because of elitist behavior that is a bi-product of it, I consider half the education system unnecessary and a racket to make some big bookoo bucks off of middle class idiots.[/QUOTE]
Big colleges, like the one I'm going to, are very elitist/conformist in the manner that most people are about the college itself and not about exploring the self and individuality.
Doesn't mean that ALL the people there are stuck-up douchebags, you meet quite a few great people that you wouldn't normally meet in regular everyday life. If you're not a lazy dickbag, you can practically live off scholarships.
Your statement in the first two segments is slightly flawed in the fact that you seem to prefer arts over general degree-based education. An opinion is not a fact.
Some of the anti-college view points are comparable to the fox and the grapes. I have no problem with the argument that many people dont need college and that many people waste time and resources in college only to fail in their goals. I dont however accept the "college is pointless" argument.
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694466]Most people I know who study are stuck up turds, all paid for of course by their parents.[/QUOTE]
What is this, some form of nerd/intellectual shaming? That is a stupid excuse, "look at that kid working to better himself, hes probably an asshole!". I got into college on 90% scholarships and grants, because I worked for it. The belief that all people who attend college are rich/had everything handed to them is bullshit.
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694466]Most people I know who study are stuck up turds, all paid for of course by their parents.
It's all a matter of opportunities, engineering and science/medicine you need further education because it is EXPECTED. Business, Arts and Crafts you can self teach, learn by trial and error.
I'm anit-college because of elitist behavior that is a bi-product of it, I consider half the education system unnecessary and a racket to make some big bookoo bucks off of middle class idiots.[/QUOTE]
You literally just tried to boil down people pursuing education as idiots
[editline]29th October 2013[/editline]
also, ever stop to think they are being 'turds' because you view them as idiots? If some guy who wasn't in college and thought college was pointless looked at me as some stuck up turd being coddled by my parents, I would assume he was an idiot.
A lot of you are underestimating the value of degrees and the doors they open. I'm studying to become a chartered accountant, and every single job advertisement for any accounting positions requires the applicant to hold a bachelor's degree (bonus if it's an honours and has a major in accounting) OR to be a recognised chartered accountant. How do you get there, becoming a chartered accountant? You need to follow a pathway in a Business or Commerce degree before you can consider starting the 5 year training to work towards being one.
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42691295]when good grades provide tangible benefits then i am willing to try. in college i get good grades as well since i actually have a desire to be there(the classes are voluntary) and i am personally driven to study, work, and achieve.[/QUOTE]
I have good grades and took challenging college courses in high school and now I'm being offered scholarships with an opportunity to go to college for essentially free. Maybe that's a tangible benefit? The hard classes also allowed me to graduate with around a year of college so that cuts down on costs as well, along with allowing me to go to college easier. You say your cost is very high, and it might have to do with getting lower grades and dropping out?
[QUOTE=Bentham;42694759]You literally just tried to boil down people pursuing education as idiots
[editline]29th October 2013[/editline]
also, ever stop to think they are being 'turds' because you view them as idiots? If some guy who wasn't in college and thought college was pointless looked at me as some stuck up turd being coddled by my parents, I would assume he was an idiot.[/QUOTE]
I never said all people pursing education are idiots, trust me. I like having a local GP who can fix my ailments, we need more. I mentioned most people _I_ know, probably says more about me than anything. My circle of acquaintances, the people who are studying for 4-6 years having a very naive outlook on life, society and the job industries. I think one of the problems the work force has issues with is culture with the majority of students. Not all but there is a significant number of students who either live off of government study allowance or their rich parent's 40k loan and smoke weed "evry day", play nintendo and study.
Most companies want super humans, not just the qualifications but dirt under their finger nails, not hash.
I don't know whether the U.S Government gives out study allowances but the AU government does, and a growing issue is students having huge debts over their shoulders for the rest of their lives they can't pay back because the industry they've chosen has gone to shit or is too picky about their qualified applicants for work (one of the issues of the OP article).
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694893]
Most companies want super humans these days, not just the qualifications but dirt under their finger nails, not hash.
[/QUOTE]
And these "super-humans" do exist. They tend to be the people who end up in the Ivy League schools.
Although it may seem that society's top always ends up in those Ivy League schools due to purely money issues, genetics is also contributes to it.
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694893]I don't know whether the U.S Government gives out study allowances but the AU government does, and a growing issue is students having huge debts over their shoulders for the rest of their lives they can't pay back because the industry they've chosen has gone to shit or is too picky about their qualified applicants for work (one of the issues of the OP article).[/QUOTE]
In the US you can get government loans and grants, but it is normally not enough to live off of. A lot of the time they dont even cover tuition completely. There are also federal work study programs in which you get government money but you have to work on campus and your payment is in the form of an hourly wage.
[QUOTE=KorJax;42691006]GPA isn't taken seriously in the actual job world. However its likely that if people are just floating by with C's and not doing any initiative on their own part outside of class or not actually learning anything, then they aren't going to hold a job anyways. It depends on why that student has C's everywhere. If its because of a lack of drive or willingness to try, then sure.[/QUOTE]
gpa counts for scholarships ill tell you that in a fuckin heartbeat
[QUOTE=Neckbird;42694495]its not about gauging your own competence though. a smart person knows himself to be a fool[/QUOTE]
1) i don't like that quote. a truly smart person is able to judge their own competence in different subjects. someone who knows themselves to be a fool probably just has low self esteem. more accurately: a smart person knows [i]when[/i] they are a fool.
2) all grades are is a gauge for competence, and a pretty poor one at that. grades are useful when i am unsure of how well i am able to grasp the subject matter. for a subject i already know, grades are worthless to me.
[QUOTE=thisispain;42694501]well the thing is you can be anti-system, but to be anti-system means to not accepted by the system
and being outside of the system can make life very difficult[/QUOTE]
sometimes the tougher roads are the most rewarding. education is a matter of drive. an education for the sake of getting a degree is worthless because it is wasted time. your learning should be a tool to empower you in your own endeavors that you find worthwhile. the problem with college nowadays is that it is becoming a prerequisite, and a very expensive one at that. it is no longer about empowering people through knowledge but now a way to financially empower people.
[QUOTE=Zally13;42694885]I have good grades and took challenging college courses in high school and now I'm being offered scholarships with an opportunity to go to college for essentially free. Maybe that's a tangible benefit? The hard classes also allowed me to graduate with around a year of college so that cuts down on costs as well, along with allowing me to go to college easier. You say your cost is very high, and it might have to do with getting lower grades and dropping out?[/QUOTE]
yea that could be. i don't look down on other people for trying to achieve in school and don't really try to pretend that my life is better off without. it wasn't for me. my college might have been more expensive because of it but i don't think an undefined amount of cash is really worth it when i'm working extra proving knowledge that i already know in classes i have no passion for.
for fucks sake people, he has [img]http://facepunch.com/image.php?u=54632&dateline=1380996961[/img] as his avatar.
please for the love of all things nice and intelligent stop taking the man seriously. he does nothing but start fires with his picturesque angst in every single thread he visits.
[QUOTE=Mbbird;42695398]for fucks sake people, he has [img]http://facepunch.com/image.php?u=54632&dateline=1380996961[/img] as his avatar.
please for the love of all things nice and intelligent stop taking the man seriously. he does nothing but start fires with his picturesque angst in every single thread he visits.[/QUOTE]
hey i have a fan club...i could print out my avatar, autograph it, and send it to you if you want.
seriously though, are you going to start following me around in every thread i post in because that's sorta creepy.
[QUOTE=Angus725;42694934]And these "super-humans" do exist. They tend to be the people who end up in the Ivy League schools.
Although it may seem that society's top always ends up in those Ivy League schools due to purely money issues[B], genetics is also contributes to it.[/B][/QUOTE]
lmao
I'm afraid that even after I get a degree in chemical engineering and get a job in that field(which most people in engineering don't end up doing) I won't be able to perform the way I should. I'm afraid of forgetting those years of mathematics, physics, computer science, chemistry, and upper division classes and just bumbling around like a retard trying to remember if the anti derivative of sin is cos or -cos (it's -cos)
[QUOTE=Flem;42688631]A degree doesn't mean fuck all, if you have knowledge and experience who gives a fuck how brainy you think you are.
Years studying or years in a job, I chose the job route after A Levels and im doing fucking dandy.[/QUOTE]It depends on what career you want. I want to work in accounting and systems, there's no way I will get a job in this unless I am educated. I know it takes a bit more than knowledge, luckily I've scored an internship for a big company in which they're paying me $29/hour, working in the area of work I want to get into as a graduate.
[editline]30th October 2013[/editline]
luckily I'll be graduating before the federal government axes the HECS program. Fuck you Abott we need that!
[QUOTE=yawmwen;42695428]hey i have a fan club...i could print out my avatar, autograph it, and send it to you if you want.
seriously though, are you going to start following me around in every thread i post in because that's sorta creepy.[/QUOTE]
Don't flatter yourself. Whenever you post your angry ideals in SH you spark page-long arguments.
This is sort of the thing I imagine a 4th grader would come up with. Negative attention is still attention, and it's impossible to miss you.
you could say the same thing about me, so what
[QUOTE=Dr.C;42695559]I'm afraid that even after I get a degree in chemical engineering and get a job in that field(which most people in engineering don't end up doing) I won't be able to perform the way I should. I'm afraid of forgetting those years of mathematics, physics, computer science, chemistry, and upper division classes and just bumbling around like a retard trying to remember if the anti derivative of sin is cos or -cos (it's -cos)[/QUOTE]Nope because the work will probably involve plugging some shit into proprietary software and it doing everything for you, while you will be busy scrambling over some other boring legal shit. Your daily work will become perfunctory and miserable and everything about it will be terrible. This is most likely why most engineering grads don't end up going into those jobs, because even though the pay sounds impressive to someone who has never made that much, you will hate your life.
[QUOTE=Flem;42688631]A degree doesn't mean fuck all, if you have knowledge and experience who gives a fuck how brainy you think you are.
Years studying or years in a job, I chose the job route after A Levels and im doing fucking dandy.[/QUOTE]
I'd love to see the GMC, NMC or HCPC approve you for anything without a degree.
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694466]Business, Arts and Crafts you can self teach, learn by trial and error.[/QUOTE]
Really? You think you're going to get a job in economics, corporate management, graphic design, modeling, printwork, or any other one of the many specialized disciplines that require extensive training and conceptual understanding within those two categories with no relevant experience whatsoever?
Maybe you could start your own business, sure, but see how well that works out for, for example, most wannabe artists. You'll be directly competing with people who have studied for years, working at internships and developing portfolios as they go. Unless you're the one-in-a-million Bill Gates type you're going to have a hell of a time trying to stand out when you have no more qualifications than any other high school grad.
College isn't just about direct education, it also provides the opportunities for practical work experience, and serves as a marker to prospective employers that you've done the work and can handle the challenge. If I'm looking to hire a graphic designer, the choice between the guy who has done nothing but read Google and doodle in his free time versus the guy who spent four years putting in the work to score well in school while simultaneously interning at well-known companies is pretty obvious.
[QUOTE=EndOfTheWorld;42694466]I'm anit-college because of elitist behavior that is a bi-product of it, I consider half the education system unnecessary and a racket to make some big bookoo bucks off of middle class idiots.[/QUOTE]
An educated person would recognize the French loanword 'beaucoup' rather than fumble it with 'bookoo' so at least you're unintentionally demonstrating [i]some[/i] of the benefits of higher education.
[QUOTE=catbarf;42697903]
An educated person would recognize the French loanword 'beaucoup' rather than fumble it with 'bookoo' so at least you're unintentionally demonstrating [i]some[/i] of the benefits of higher education.[/QUOTE]
im crying, this is an amazing sentence
Third year uni and I'm almost regretting my decision. A lot of subjects are really woeful at teaching you actual skills required in the workplace.
Some subjects are really good, but a lot of it has been trash and a complete waste of dosh. Universities need to make a better effort at teaching you what you need to know to get a fucking job at the end, because I've spent about 3 years doing computer science but in my opinion I've gained about a year worth of useful experience and knowledge.
EDIT: At least in australia, that is.
College is what you make of it. In terms of actually learning about my field, it was a little underwhelming. I did have my final year where we did internships, but even then it was way different than my current job. However I did a lot of extra curricular activities that really helped me gained leadership skills and get more confident being in different social situations and dealing with different people.
I thought I'd being wearing a suit and tie everyday but instead I come into work in sweatpants and sweatshirt madly sipping coffee in front of the glow of a computer screen. Or I'm out filming.
[QUOTE=Empty_Shadow;42697956]Third year uni and I'm almost regretting my decision. A lot of subjects are really woeful at teaching you actual skills required in the workplace.
Some subjects are really good, but a lot of it has been trash and a complete waste of dosh. Universities need to make a better effort at teaching you what you need to know to get a fucking job at the end, because I've spent about 3 years doing computer science but in my opinion I've gained about a year worth of useful experience and knowledge.
EDIT: At least in australia, that is.[/QUOTE]
I have heard from several people who have gone to both TAFE and Uni that you usually learn much more, in a much shorter period of time at TAFE rather than Uni. TAFE is also supposed to be much more 'full on' while Uni is supposed to be far more laid back.
Uni really feels like they're prepping you for academia but I don't want to be doing that.
Honestly I'm not sure, on the bright side a degree [i]does[/i] look good and I'm past halfway so I'm not gonna bail out now, but I'd probably try something else if I had my time again.
[QUOTE=Antdawg;42694781]A lot of you are underestimating the value of degrees and the doors they open. I'm studying to become a chartered accountant, and every single job advertisement for any accounting positions requires the applicant to hold a bachelor's degree (bonus if it's an honours and has a major in accounting) OR to be a recognised chartered accountant. How do you get there, becoming a chartered accountant? You need to follow a pathway in a Business or Commerce degree before you can consider starting the 5 year training to work towards being one.[/QUOTE]
In the UK all of the Big 4 accountancy firms are massively expanding their School Leaver programmes. They effectively allow you to join the graduate scheme a year earlier but with 2 years of work experience - and there's nothing stopping you from being promoted or becoming a chartered accountant.
I'm surprised this hasn't been rolled out to other countries..
I get annoyed when rich kids with like 5 degrees (probably all bought from Kaplan or some obscure private university) get managerial positions, and if not, they think they'll be a manager immediately.
A degree matters, if you're going to be a doctor, because you need to know those textbook shit, and you can't just learn from it.
But for something crafts and arts related, like F&B, or watchmakers, degrees are nothing much. Its the skills that matter for these industries.
But, it'll definitely be alot better if you work in the same industry that you are studying or planning to study either before your degree or during your degree. At least you have a idea.
But some degrees are too general, like business, because if you want to go into a specific business like opening your own cakeshop you gotta learn the basics of the F&B industry before you start.
And some degrees don't provide the skills you need to learn in the workplace, causing you to learn everything all over again.
Plus, you could always work your way up, then get a degree while you work. Doesn't mean you'll be stuck for the rest of your life.
Like for me, I wasted my time and money studying culinary skills, when I could just go be an apprentice at good restaurants. Now I know I don't have to go to CIA just to get a degree.
Didn't go to college or Uni, now I run my own business. It's tough making so much cash and working my own hours guys.
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