• You can now train self-driving cars Using GTA V
    58 replies, posted
[QUOTE=laserpanda;51667665]Stop signs are probably the easiest in a game like this where you only have a few models and textures to recognize. In the real world it's difficult because you have to deal with things like signs that are sun faded or vandalized. It will still be interesting to see how it handles situations where a sign gets run over or view is blocked by a bus or something like that.[/QUOTE] Might they register stopsign locations? [editline]14th January 2017[/editline] Automatically that is. Car drives by, it gets registered and when the stop sign is blocked other cars still know.
[QUOTE=laserpanda;51667665]Stop signs are probably the easiest in a game like this where you only have a few models and textures to recognize. In the real world it's difficult because you have to deal with things like signs that are sun faded or vandalized. It will still be interesting to see how it handles situations where a sign gets run over or view is blocked by a bus or something like that.[/QUOTE] Traffic sign recognition is pretty much a solved problem in computer vision, getting accuracy of around 99%. Edit: Actually, human performance was measured to be 98.84% and the best machine learning method got 99.46% on the same benchmark. So yeah, traffic signs are not challenging at all for computers.
[QUOTE=Mango;51667755]Might they register stopsign locations? [editline]14th January 2017[/editline] Automatically that is. Car drives by, it gets registered and when the stop sign is blocked other cars still know.[/QUOTE] I'm not an expert but I believe that real-life bot cars have spatial information, like lasers/radar/ultrasound to see around visual obstacles. It's how they predict accidents several cars ahead, and presumably (might) recognize a stopsign by just the octagon in ultrasound. Anyone get the program working yet? I'm still trying to fix it.
[QUOTE=judgeofdeath;51667786] Actually, human performance was measured to be 98.84% and the best machine learning method got 99.46% on the same benchmark. So yeah, traffic signs are not challenging at all for computers.[/QUOTE] Not very surprising considering traffic signs are made to be easily readable. And a human won't keep attention like a computer.
isn't this kinda just like getting a taxi?
[QUOTE=gukki;51667692]My fav car in gta3 was the diablo stallion because it actually slid like a car.[/QUOTE] Best drifters in GTA3 are the cop car and the diablo stallion. Though you gotta pump the siren on the cop car to make it lose its stickiness. Pound that woop woop and make some big drifts.
[QUOTE=Source;51667848]isn't this kinda just like getting a taxi?[/QUOTE] Not really, taxis follow a path (and usually fail at it when shit gets weird) this looks at stuff and drives better.
Doesn't seem like it's very good at staying in the middle of the lane though. It reminds me of a car I rented once that stayed in the lane automatically, it would "feel" the edge of the lane.
This is incredibly interesting, and it really shows off how open-world sandboxes like GTA have reached a level of fidelity where you can apply real-world techniques to them, and also get data from them to be applied in the real world. This reminded me of a paper and demonstration from last year: [video=youtube;JGAIfWG2MQQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JGAIfWG2MQQ[/video] The gist of it is that to teach a car to drive itself, you need to teach it what each real-world thing is. To do that, you usually have to get footage from the camera's POV and then manually 'draw' over each thing (this color is for road markings, this for signs, this for pedestrians...) for each individual frame, in every weather and lighting condition, until the AI can understand what something is, just like how face detection gets better the larger the database is. That, of course, is super taxing and takes a lot of time. But since GTAV is [I]close enough[/I] to real life, you can just "shoot" footage of the game from the hood camera on an AI-controlled car, and then pair the footage with the data you can easily get on what each model and texture represents. It cut down the time needed to build datasets dramatically, and it's even more accurate than drawing a blob around a car or a sign. [editline]14th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Riller;51666450]Sooo... A game with thousands of AI-driven cars now got AI driven cars? I clearly don't quite understand what this is. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Source;51667848]isn't this kinda just like getting a taxi?[/QUOTE] The difference between the game's own AI cars and this one is subtle but very important: they're teaching an external AI how to drive in GTA based [B]only[/B] on visual cues from the game's visual output, like a real player would. A taxi, police car, or any of the game's internal AI cars don't do that, they follow invisible paths and points of interest which had to be scripted and placed manually in the game world, and they constantly communicate with eachother and the game's own engine.
[QUOTE=gukki;51667111]the cars actually handled like cars with no tires driving on ice.[/QUOTE] ftfy They do handle closer to real cars since the cars in all other GTA games are designed to actually handle all the dumbass racing and chase sequences you have to do with ease while GTAIV was Rockstar going "look how realistic we made this world look it's devoid of color and shooting someone in the foot makes them fall over with Euphoria™ and our cars aren't arcadey," but they don't handle "like cars."
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51667597]I liked GTA IV's handling more than GTA V's sticky handling. Though perfection, and realism, is something inbetween. GTA V with a realistic handling mod is fucking great, and I'll always argue that that's how the game should have been in the first place.[/QUOTE] I also love driving soap.
um... i like the idea but someone needs to look at how people drive in GTA V lol
[QUOTE=ApertureXS200;51670566]I also love driving soap.[/QUOTE] You'd be surprised by how little grip real cars on the road have when pushed hard. Atleast GTA-IV taught you to be careful when driving fast instead of "lol I'd probs make it anyway"
[QUOTE=DOCTOR LIGHT;51667117]I don't know if you've ever driven a car, but they don't handle anything like GTAIV's cars did. I mean, to be fair, they don't handle like GTA3's, but at least GTA3's don't throw you around and frustrate your dick off.[/QUOTE] Keep in mind if you actually take a turn at 20 mph or less in GTA IV (you know, actual street car turning speed) it handles like a real car, it doesn't slide everywhere. You think it's unrealistic but I don't think you realize how fast you're going in GTA and how insane turning at those speeds would be in real life. [editline]14th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=ApertureXS200;51670566]I also love driving soap.[/QUOTE] I mean, unless you have a totally slammed car that's weighted you're going to feel like you're driving on soap if you take any turns at ridiculous speeds and even then...
[QUOTE=gukki;51667111]IV had the best driving though. It was actually fun because the cars actually handled like cars. When my roommate bought V on the 360 and I got home from the army for the weekend I was super excited to try it out but 10 seconds in to the starting mission I was already disappointed about the driving physics being brought back to way too much grip.[/QUOTE]Christ no driving cars in GTAIV wasn't fun, it was a chore. GTAIV was a driving game that made driving something to loathe, not enjoy. Its one of the reasons people liked to joke about it being a taxi-ride simulator, because actually driving around the city was so unpleasant. The numerous chase sequences weren't action-packed rushes to keep up and dodge traffic and gunfire, they were exercises in patience as you had to repeat missions constantly because your car smashed in to something because it wouldn't swerve right, or during a turn it went sideways and you skid out and lost your target, or you tried to take a turn but the vehicle rolled, or so many fucking problems. GTAIV was a great game for plenty of reasons, but not the core mechanic of actually driving. All the driving was good for is fucking around watching the hilariously awful mechanics of it causing goofy accidents to occur.
Everyone is expecting F1 level grip and handling from what are supposed to be regular consumer cars
[QUOTE=FingerSpazem;51670856]Everyone is expecting F1 level grip and handling from what are supposed to be regular consumer cars[/QUOTE] I'm expecting fun gameplay from a series that has historically been about the grandiose and the action, not the realism. Its Grand Theft Auto, a series of gang shoot outs and fighting armies of cops and bank robberies and tanks being rolled out to combat crime. It's not a simulator.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51670859]I'm expecting fun gameplay from a series that has historically been about the grandiose and the action, not the realism.[/QUOTE] That was only targeted at the people who say they didn't like the driving because it wasn't realistic when honestly it's the most real in the series. That doesn't always translate to fun though, I get that, but it did for me
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51670854]Christ no driving cars in GTAIV wasn't fun, it was a chore. GTAIV was a driving game that made driving something to loathe, not enjoy. Its one of the reasons people liked to joke about it being a taxi-ride simulator, because actually driving around the city was so unpleasant. The numerous chase sequences weren't action-packed rushes to keep up and dodge traffic and gunfire, they were exercises in patience as you had to repeat missions constantly because your car smashed in to something because it wouldn't swerve right, or during a turn it went sideways and you skid out and lost your target, or you tried to take a turn but the vehicle rolled, or so many fucking problems. GTAIV was a great game for plenty of reasons, but not the core mechanic of actually driving. All the driving was good for is fucking around watching the hilariously awful mechanics of it causing goofy accidents to occur.[/QUOTE] Driving cars in GTA IV was a thousand times more fun and engaging than GTA V Your complaints are due to your own lack of skill, not actually valid criticism
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51673558]Driving cars in GTA IV was a thousand times more fun and engaging than GTA V Your complaints are due to your own lack of skill, not actually valid criticism[/QUOTE] My mom's honda oddysey didn't slide out of control and hit lamposts doing 20-25mph left turns like one of the minivans in game, the "realism" argument for IV is bullshit imo.
[QUOTE=ColdAsRice;51673602]My mom's honda oddysey didn't slide out of control and hit lamposts doing 20-25mph left turns like one of the minivans in game, the "realism" argument for IV is bullshit imo.[/QUOTE] You're right, GTA IV's cars have unrealistically low amount of grip. But I still find too little more fun than too much, and GTA V is waaaay too much.
Hey guys, I also have an opinion on GTA 4.
Nobody gives a shit about AI?
[QUOTE=gukki;51667111]IV had the best driving though. It was actually fun because the cars actually handled like cars. When my roommate bought V on the 360 and I got home from the army for the weekend I was super excited to try it out but 10 seconds in to the starting mission I was already disappointed about the driving physics being brought back to way too much grip.[/QUOTE] This appears to be a polarizing opinion but I despised the driving in GTA IV. Sure, I guess it's realistic, but I don't want realism in my games. I want something more arcadey, something more like a video game. I'm not interested in super-realistic simulations, I'm more interested in something where I can let loose and not have to think about a whole bunch of minutia. I like GTA V's driving a lot because while it was still grounded, it wasn't so realistic that I wasn't having fun anymore. It's why I prefer Burnout: Paradise over something like Project CARS. The latter is realistic, but the former is exciting and fun, in ways that wouldn't be otherwise achievable because they aren't interested in realism. They can take liberties with physics for the sake of gameplay. [editline]15th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;51670854]Christ no driving cars in GTAIV wasn't fun, it was a chore. GTAIV was a driving game that made driving something to loathe, not enjoy. Its one of the reasons people liked to joke about it being a taxi-ride simulator, because actually driving around the city was so unpleasant. The numerous chase sequences weren't action-packed rushes to keep up and dodge traffic and gunfire, they were exercises in patience as you had to repeat missions constantly because your car smashed in to something because it wouldn't swerve right, or during a turn it went sideways and you skid out and lost your target, or you tried to take a turn but the vehicle rolled, or so many fucking problems. GTAIV was a great game for plenty of reasons, but not the core mechanic of actually driving. All the driving was good for is fucking around watching the hilariously awful mechanics of it causing goofy accidents to occur.[/QUOTE] Before GFWL deleted all my saves before I could beat the game, I actually got used to the driving mechanics in IV despite disliking them. The trick is to go a lot slower than you would in other games so you can corner effectively. Again, I guess that's more realistic, but a faster-paced chase scene with arcadey physics is just more exciting for a game like GTA for me.
[QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51673558]Driving cars in GTA IV was a thousand times more fun and engaging than GTA V Your complaints are due to your own lack of skill, not actually valid criticism[/QUOTE] "git gud" is the pedant's argument. Really that says more about GTAV than anything else. I've put lots of hours into it but I actually fucking hate GTAV. It's an overly cynical mid-life-crisis work written by assholes who hate absolutely every type of human being and hide behind the shield of satire. Fuck, even the worst episodes of South Park are more intellectual than GTAV. I mean, a Facebook parody called LifeInvader, where the catchphrase is 'docking', symbolized by doing the ass-fuck finger gesture? Re-fucking-heally? That's not even sophomoric, that's fucking kindergarten level. GTAV is a game that says "HAHA, TREVOR HAS A WINKY AND HE'S IN A DRESS!" and then says "Ahurm, if you don't Appreciate this you just Don't Get Real Comedy and Intense Satire. You see, he is a gentleman wearing a dress. We're not mocking [I]him[/I], we're mocking [I]people like him.[/I]" Also that swap scene where Trevor has obviously just raped Lloyd. What the [B]fuck[/B] was that? At least in Max Payne 3 it was clear that only Max was the cynic and he was just in a shithole place in his life. Playing through GTAIV and then GTAV straight after made me want to blow my fucking brains out with how dowdy and maudlin it is. For all the ~wacky antics~ in GTAV it really tries to hammer into you the fact that life is shit. I don't play video games for that shit. [editline]15th January 2017[/editline] [QUOTE=*Freezorg*;51673761]You're right, GTA IV's cars have unrealistically low amount of grip. But I still find too little more fun than too much, and GTA V is waaaay too much.[/QUOTE] You're being hyperbolic. Go take the Z-Type for a spin. It's insanely loose and slippery. Which upsets me because I love that car. Or the Ruiner.
It's also very ironic how Rockstar have the audacity to have a DLC "drift car" when the physics in the game don't allow for any more than a tiny powerslide thanks to the built-in traction control cutting off the throttle automatically, to the point where you need to mod the game to remove it
I don't understand, wouldn't it had been more interesting to keep some of the vans with the boat physics from GTA IV while making the speedy fast cars really precise with the new handling mode? I wouldn't mind if GTA V went the Driver San Francisco route, I would shit myself if they had driving that entertaining, I could drift around mindlessly for hours in that game.
The handling in all GTA games is pretty good, they actually went to a lot of effort to have them handle realistically. I don't remember being able to flog corners at speed in any GTA title. Like go back and play San Andreas, if you brake too hard in some cars the wheels lock and you lose steering. The rear dips when you accelerate and nose dives under heavy braking. I like the driving in GTA IV (cos I don't blame the game when I'm not good at it) but it's not realistic. The braking distance on all cars is way too long, and the turning circles are too wide. Suspension is also too soft but I think rockstar did it for visual reasons. I find it immersive even if it's not realistic. The reason cars handle so well in V is because of the driving skill stat I believe. If you play online all of a sudden cars roll around realistically. Anyway my point is learn to drive. It's a driving game, thats what you spend a lot of your time doing, it's in the name. If you like the driving in IV because you're good at it then you'll be an even better driver in V.
[QUOTE=a-k-t-w;51679842]The handling in all GTA games is pretty good, they actually went to a lot of effort to have them handle realistically. I don't remember being able to flog corners at speed in any GTA title. Like go back and play San Andreas, if you brake too hard in some cars the wheels lock and you lose steering. The rear dips when you accelerate and nose dives under heavy braking. I like the driving in GTA IV (cos I don't blame the game when I'm not good at it) but it's not realistic. The braking distance on all cars is way too long, and the turning circles are too wide. Suspension is also too soft but I think rockstar did it for visual reasons. I find it immersive even if it's not realistic. The reason cars handle so well in V is because of the driving skill stat I believe. If you play online all of a sudden cars roll around realistically. Anyway my point is learn to drive. It's a driving game, thats what you spend a lot of your time doing, it's in the name. If you like the driving in IV because you're good at it then you'll be an even better driver in V.[/QUOTE] Only thing driving stat changes is roll/pitch speed while in the air
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