Iceland refuses to Join EU - This is How Democracy Works - Polidicks

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41043432]But in the European Council, every country has the same number of ministers representing them. It functions kind of like the senate in the USA, in that every country is equally represented. Besides, it would be a completely bullshit system if, say, the population of Albania and Luxemburg had equal voting power as Germany and France together. It'd basically be like telling the French and Germans "your votes are literally worth less than those of people living in smaller countries"[/QUOTE] No they aren't, people in the UK have the third lowest influence in Europe when looking at citizens per MEP (0.99), after France and Spain (0.95). Luxembourg and Malta have the highest influence with 10.8 and 10.3 respectively. [QUOTE=Antdawg;41041067]the only disadvantage of the EU is that there is only a single central bank for the whole eurozone, so individual nations can't perform their own monetary policy. what might work for Germany might not be suitable for Greece, for example.[/QUOTE] That's not a disadvantage of the EU, whilst the EU and the Eurozone are closely linked, they aren't the same thing. But not too distant from the point you've raised, I'd consider the worst part of the EU to be the lack of common fiscal policy. For example the free trade area is hailed as the best thing to come of the EU and is beneficial to all countries involved, but consider that companies like Amazon have avoided £800m in VAT because they are able to freely move money to Luxembourg. This is the case with a lot of large companies to countries like Luxembourg, Switzerland and Ireland. One of the other things I dislike about the EU is that for such a huge budget, 45% goes to Eastern Europe as handouts, about 35% goes to CAP, and without mentioning the sheer waste of bureaucracy, a minuscule amount is left for Education, Research & Development etc. which is astounding when you consider that Germany, the UK, France etc. are individually strong in terms of engineering and science, just think of what could be achieved if there was further co-operation. [editline]edit[/editline] I could go on all day, but another thing worth mentioning is that instead of addressing the actual issues of the European financial crisis, they're looking to implement caps on Bank bonuses, the Basel accords and other policies that will affect the UK as a financial hub but do absolutely nothing for places like Greece that are still suffering. [editline]edit[/editline] [QUOTE=proch;41043693]EU makes our babies be stupid and makes monies go away!!!![/QUOTE] These sorts of posts are so tiresome to see in SH

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;41039663]quick fill this thread with posts only evidencing how little people actually know about the EU fucking man in brussels taking my bendy bananas!!!!!![/QUOTE] EU makes our babies be stupid and makes monies go away!!!!

Good on Iceland, shame more won't stand up against the EU, though.

good for you iceland. nice to see.

[QUOTE=FlashMarsh;41039481]yeah Romania is controlling the eu[/QUOTE] We order you to give us all your euromoneys

[QUOTE=Bomimo;41039898]Being gay there is outright illegal guys.[/QUOTE] Uh their last prime minister is a married lesbian and abortion has been legal there since the 70's.

[QUOTE=The fox;41043898]Good on Iceland, shame more won't stand up against the EU, though.[/QUOTE] Didn't you claim the EU was a fascist organization?

[QUOTE=Megafan;41044151]Didn't you claim the EU was a fascist organization?[/QUOTE] He did, but it's The Fox. He hates the EU solely because it's the EU, and he'll make sure to slander it, logic and facts be damned!

Good going Iceland, together we'll rebel the EU. But in all seriousness, here in switzerland we are mooded the same. The Majority still doesn't want to join them and so do I.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41044224]He did, but it's The Fox. He hates the EU solely because it's the EU, and he'll make sure to slander it, logic and facts be damned![/QUOTE] And he can't handle when people point out the blatantly obvious about it.

I hope more countries will say no to the EU then we can keep rampant Islam at bay

[QUOTE=thisispain;41039621]its a complex political system i suggest you take the time to research it instead of taking the obviously flawed opinions of people on fp[/QUOTE] Flawed opinions of people of people on FP eh? Does this apply to everything you post? Cause that would really make my day ;)

[QUOTE=Lalelalala;41042269]Was there an actual, valid, reason for banning incandescent light bulbs?[/QUOTE] most of the crazy stories about the eu making fishermen wear hair nets and banning bendy bananas are all bollocks. in the case of the totally stupid like hair nets for fishermen, and hard hats for trapeze artists - they are totally made up. i dont know what the lightbulb thing is, but if it sounds too stupid to be true then it probably is.

[QUOTE=SinjinOmega;41040013]Outright false. It's legal if it fits certain conditions and I don't see any anti-homosexuality parades either. Heck there was a Gay Pride parade once. I forgot if it's annual or not though.[/QUOTE] When I was there in the summer of 2011, there were gay pride posters everywhere.

[QUOTE=entertainer89;41044693]Flawed opinions of people of people on FP eh? Does this apply to everything you post? Cause that would really make my day ;)[/QUOTE] if the only thing you have to add is a really terrible attempt at a zing and a stupid emote then the jokes on u isnt it go cry about how messed up the world is some more

[QUOTE=entertainer89;41044693]Flawed opinions of people of people on FP eh? Does this apply to everything you post? Cause that would really make my day ;)[/QUOTE] Swing and a miss. Thisispain can be kind of a dick at times but he's usually right

Anyone read up on their cantons and direct democracy? This country seems really attractive to me if only I knew Icelandic.

The EU isn't looking too great since the recession, mainly because of countries along the Mediterranean like Greece that don't have their finances in order. Let's see where it all stands in a few years.

[QUOTE=Hellduck;41044698]most of the crazy stories about the eu making fishermen wear hair nets and banning bendy bananas are all bollocks. in the case of the totally stupid like hair nets for fishermen, and hard hats for trapeze artists - they are totally made up. i dont know what the lightbulb thing is, but if it sounds too stupid to be true then it probably is.[/QUOTE]The lightbulb thing is true, they're being phased out in favour of energy-efficient bulbs. A whole bunch of countries are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs]phasing them out.[/url]

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;41045292]The lightbulb thing is true, they're being phased out in favour of energy-efficient bulbs. A whole bunch of countries are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs]phasing them out.[/url][/QUOTE] People were bulk-buying the "good ol" incandescent bulbs when we were in the transitional phase, it seemed purely because they were reliable, cheap and gave off the warm sandy hue everyone had become accustomed to. Personally, I never noticed much of a difference between them and the eurobulbs aside from the price (quite steep, to be honest), and I much prefer the closer-to-neutral white light they emit. Incandescent bulbs are not banned however, they're still available, just at much lower volume. Those must be the ones that pass the energy efficiency standards, nothing else.

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;41045292]The lightbulb thing is true, they're being phased out in favour of energy-efficient bulbs. A whole bunch of countries are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs]phasing them out.[/url][/QUOTE] Seems pretty reasonable tbh, I just assumed it was another of those "how dare they say are bananas are too bendy? *fumes with misdirected right wing angst*" type of things

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41043432]But in the European Council, every country has the same number of ministers representing them. It functions kind of like the senate in the USA, in that every country is equally represented. Besides, it would be a completely bullshit system if, say, the population of Albania and Luxemburg had equal voting power as Germany and France together. It'd basically be like telling the French and Germans "your votes are literally worth less than those of people living in smaller countries"[/QUOTE] But that's the problem. To me, frankly, democracy no longer work when you have more than half a billion people voting on the same issues. It already starts to get wonky at ten million, where you can say that your voice is now too tiny for anyone to hear.

[QUOTE=Riller;41045575]But that's the problem. To me, frankly, democracy no longer work when you have more than half a billion people voting on the same issues. It already starts to get wonky at ten million, where you can say that your voice is now too tiny for anyone to hear.[/QUOTE] Well yeah if you want to try and express a complex opinion, but if you're just voting ye or nay on proposals then I don't see the issue.

[QUOTE=Hellduck;41045595]Well yeah if you want to try and express a complex opinion, but if you're just voting ye or nay on proposals then I don't see the issue.[/QUOTE] Well, we have 27 different nations with 27 different forms of government and 27 different ideas on how to run things. If shit boils down to a binary yay-nay on everything, then an average of 13 countries are gonna be screwed over every time you make a decision.

[QUOTE=Riller;41045575]But that's the problem. To me, frankly, democracy no longer work when you have more than half a billion people voting on the same issues. It already starts to get wonky at ten million, where you can say that your voice is now too tiny for anyone to hear.[/QUOTE] Hence why subsidiarity is necessary. Things that make sense on a European level should be done on a European level (e.g. ecology, fiscal policy, research and development...) and things that don't should stay on the level of the national states (e.g. culture, language...) [editline]15th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Riller;41045645]Well, we have 27 different nations with 27 different forms of government and 27 different ideas on how to run things. If shit boils down to a binary yay-nay on everything, then an average of 13 countries are gonna be screwed over every time you make a decision.[/QUOTE] Doubtful. An average of 50% of citizens in 27 countries will be screwed, but whether that 50% gets screwed on national or supranational level doesn't matter. What does matter is that the decision will have more effect/sway on European level, than if 27 countries are pulling the rope in the opposite direction.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41045662]Hence why subsidiarity is necessary. Things that make sense on a European level should be done on a European level (e.g. ecology, fiscal policy, research and development...) and things that don't should stay on the level of the national states (e.g. culture, language...) [/QUOTE] Fiscal policy does [I]not[/I] belong on an European level. Attempting to do that is basically what made Greece, Italy and whoever else is down the shitter utterly uable to unfuck themselves on their own. There's 17 different countries in the Eurozone running 17 different economies, all on the same [I]stupid fucking jack-of-all-trades-jesus-fuck-why-did-we-not-see-this-failing[/I] currency. [I]None[/I] of them have the ability to artificially in- or deflate their economy slightly to perform corrections and boost their import/export. If one of the countries' credit rating suddenly goes belly-side up (COUGH COUGH GREECE COUGH), they're all screwed over by it, because it's thier common currency that takes the hit in the international market.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41045662] Doubtful. An average of 50% of citizens in 27 countries will be screwed, but whether that 50% gets screwed on national or supranational level doesn't matter. What does matter is that the decision will have more effect/sway on European level, than if 27 countries are pulling the rope in the opposite direction.[/QUOTE] Yeah, fucking over 50% of the population will only lead to good things. absolutely no violence and unrest is gonna stem from that.

Now, I don't hate [I]all[/I] of the EU. I like the common market, the increase in international trade, the ease of moving and travelling between member-states and all that jazz, but I do not believe that the perks of the EU justify the flaws and the decreased worth of the individual's vote in politics. Also, [I]Sweden[/I] is a part of it, too. Who the fuck wants to sit next to Sweden in parliament?! That's like, the smelly kid in class!

When we have stuff like ACTA being voted on behind closed doors, it doesnt sound that fun to be a part of the EU

[QUOTE=Riller;41045729]Fiscal policy does [I]not[/I] belong on an European level. Attempting to do that is basically what made Greece, Italy and whoever else is down the shitter utterly uable to unfuck themselves on their own. There's 17 different countries in the Eurozone running 17 different economies, all on the same [I]stupid fucking jack-of-all-trades-jesus-fuck-why-did-we-not-see-this-failing[/I] currency. [I]None[/I] of them have the ability to artificially in- or deflate their economy slightly to perform corrections and boost their import/export. If one of the countries' credit rating suddenly goes belly-side up (COUGH COUGH GREECE COUGH), they're all screwed over by it, because it's thier common currency that takes the hit in the international market.[/QUOTE] I somewhat agree, but Greece should never have entered the eurozone in the first place. Greece, Spain etc had an economy that was sitting on a bubble, but we didn't take enough precautions to filter them out. We just have to integrate closer with the countries that work and not be overzealous in expanding the eurozone, I agree. [editline]15th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Latex;41045767]Yeah, fucking over 50% of the population will only lead to good things. absolutely no violence and unrest is gonna stem from that.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying it's a good thing to fuck over 50% of the population, I'm saying the member states themselves already fuck over 50% of their population. This isn't a problem inherent to the EU [editline]15th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;41045926]When we have stuff like ACTA being voted on behind closed doors, it doesnt sound that fun to be a part of the EU[/QUOTE] ACTA was repealed by the EU so I'm not even sure what you're arguing here. The EU has the balls to tell the USA to fuck off, but without the EU, I'm almost certain half of the European countries would have lowered their pants and bent over to the USA [url]http://www.europarl.europa.eu/news/en/pressroom/content/20120703IPR48247/html/European-Parliament-rejects-ACTA[/url] [quote][B] 478 MEPs voted against ACTA, 39 in favour, and 165 abstained.[/quote] [/B]I'm sorry, but that sounds pretty damn good to me.