Iceland refuses to Join EU - This is How Democracy Works - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sgt Doom;41045292]The lightbulb thing is true, they're being phased out in favour of energy-efficient bulbs. A whole bunch of countries are [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs]phasing them out.[/url][/QUOTE] You can still buy them though, but only for specific applications where the characteristics of a incandescent light bulb are all put to use. In pretty much all other applications, they emit [B]A LOT[/B] of heat, and also light in spectrums useless for the human eye.

[QUOTE=Riller;41045645]Well, we have 27 different nations with 27 different forms of government and 27 different ideas on how to run things. If shit boils down to a binary yay-nay on everything, then an average of 13 countries are gonna be screwed over every time you make a decision.[/QUOTE] keep in mind that the eurpean parliament does not stand for national issues and values. But instead for cross border stuff. Notice how most MEPs don't bench based on countries but based on political agenda. You have socialists making ties with socialists, christian democrats with christian democrats etc. as far as national issues go, this generally rests well within the realm of the member nations or in ministry delegation.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41045931]I somewhat agree, but Greece should never have entered the eurozone in the first place. Greece, Spain etc had an economy that was sitting on a bubble, but we didn't take enough precautions to filter them out. We just have to integrate closer with the countries that work and not be overzealous in expanding the eurozone, I agree. [/QUOTE] The Eurozone needs to go die on a fire, and better now than later. It's already crashed three economies and weakened the fourteen other members by having to drag the crashed ones along. It's about as stupid as a fuckin' Power Rangers Super Zoid. Why the fuck be one slightly stronger unit that's much more vunrerble instead of seventeen mobile, self-regulating ones that can rise and fall independantly of eachother? Fuck the Euro. Only merit of it is that the coins look pretty cool, with the gold edge and silver middle.

[QUOTE=Riller;41047118]The Eurozone needs to go die on a fire, and better now than later. It's already crashed three economies and weakened the fourteen other members by having to drag the crashed ones along. It's about as stupid as a fuckin' Power Rangers Super Zoid. Why the fuck be one slightly stronger unit that's much more vunrerble instead of seventeen mobile, self-regulating ones that can rise and fall independantly of eachother? Fuck the Euro. Only merit of it is that the coins look pretty cool, with the gold edge and silver middle.[/QUOTE] I understand the scepticism, but having a confederation with different coins will bite us in the ass in the long-term, like it did with the USA back before it became a federal state. Just throwing away the euro is a bad idea, we need to fix the issues, not work with a half-assed unity and monetary union without the required control (seriously, what were they thinking back then)

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41047307]I understand the scepticism, but having a confederation with different coins will bite us in the ass in the long-term, like it did with the USA back before it became a federal state. Just throwing away the euro is a bad idea, we need to fix the issues, not work with a half-assed unity and monetary union without the required control (seriously, what were they thinking back then)[/QUOTE] At this rate it won't be necessary to throw away the euro. it's slowly killing itself.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41047307]I understand the scepticism, but having a confederation with different coins will bite us in the ass in the long-term, like it did with the USA back before it became a federal state. Just throwing away the euro is a bad idea, we need to fix the issues, not work with a half-assed unity and monetary union without the required control (seriously, what were they thinking back then)[/QUOTE] Fine. Kick everyone who's not Germany and France out of the Eurozone. Issues fixed!

[QUOTE=Riller;41047772]Fine. Kick everyone who's not Germany and France out of the Eurozone. Issues fixed![/QUOTE] Kick Germany out of the Eurozone more like

[QUOTE=Lalelalala;41042269]Was there an actual, valid, reason for banning incandescent light bulbs?[/QUOTE] Because fluorescent bulbs don't use as much energy as incandescent bulbs. And they last considerably longer.

[QUOTE=Riller;41047772]Fine. Kick everyone who's not Germany and France out of the Eurozone. Issues fixed![/QUOTE] keep the Benelux as well please But yeah; I'd be fine with a "hard core" of the Eurozone being France, Germany and the Benelux. Other countries can join once their economy is up to our levels. I doubt, however, that this will ever happen, because the political ramifications will be disastrous.

I wish we humans had enough control over our systems that we could just say "Fuck all this inefficient beurocratic bullshit, were scrapping the whole thing and starting over".

[QUOTE=Riller;41045770]Now, I don't hate [I]all[/I] of the EU. I like the common market, the increase in international trade, the ease of moving and travelling between member-states and all that jazz, but I do not believe that the perks of the EU justify the flaws and the decreased worth of the individual's vote in politics. Also, [I]Sweden[/I] is a part of it, too. Who the fuck wants to sit next to Sweden in parliament?! That's like, the smelly kid in class![/QUOTE] First of all, Denmark has its nose to close to its own mouth. Secondly, I wish that Sweden would not have joined EU because they are trying to put stupid bans on our Swedish "snus". They claim its for health reasons but its really just for money.

[QUOTE=Sprockethead;41047910]I wish we humans had enough control over our systems that we could just say "Fuck all this inefficient beurocratic bullshit, were scrapping the whole thing and starting over".[/QUOTE] The EU isn't the bureaucratic mess everyone says it is. [url=http://londyn.msz.gov.pl/en/news/0_seven_eu_myths_you_should_never_believe_]EDIT:[/url] [quote]Yes, 33,000 people work for the European Commission, serving an entire continent. But more than 82,000 people work for HM Revenue & Customs alone. Spain has almost three million bureaucrats. In contrast to any of its members, the EU is a slimmed-down operation.[/quote] [editline]15th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=maeZtro;41047912]First of all, Denmark has its nose to close to its own mouth. Secondly, I wish that Sweden would not have joined EU because they are trying to put stupid bans on our Swedish "snus". They claim its for health reasons but its really just for money.[/QUOTE] I sincerely doubt the EU will just ban Snus for no reason. The EU cares about culture and the Court of Justice has always protected it.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41047919]The EU isn't the bureaucratic mess everyone says it is. [editline]15th June 2013[/editline] I sincerely doubt the EU will just ban Snus for no reason. The EU cares about culture and the Court of Justice has always protected it.[/QUOTE] They are banning it because its getting very popular among the french and the germans. They quit smoking and start using snus instead which leads to Sweden exporting large quantites of snus there. I think its illegal in France and Germany already. Also using snus is much healthier than smoking or alcohol.

[QUOTE=maeZtro;41047993]They are banning it because its getting very popular among the french and the germans. They quit smoking and start using snus instead which leads to Sweden exporting large quantites of snus there. I think its illegal in France and Germany already. Also using snus is much healthier than smoking or alcohol.[/QUOTE] It's been illegal in the EU since 1992; but Sweden is exempt from the ban for cultural reasons. Why do you think the EU would ban export from a member state? It makes no sense, because the EU is all about a unified market. If you think the EU is trying to ban your export solely to spite you or for economic reasons, that'd mean the EU is shooting itself in the foot.

[QUOTE=maeZtro;41047993]They are banning it because its getting very popular among the french and the germans. They quit smoking and start using snus instead which leads to Sweden exporting large quantites of snus there. I think its illegal in France and Germany already. Also using snus is much healthier than smoking or alcohol.[/QUOTE] And let's not forget the whole bribing deal surrounding it, which involved quite a bit of people in high places in the EU.

[QUOTE=The fox;41048042]And let's not forget the whole bribing deal surrounding it, which involved quite a bit of people in high places in the EU.[/QUOTE] Source? The only sources I can find cite the opposite of what you claim: [url]http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/dalligate/Dalli-says-European-Commission-wanted-to-lift-snus-ban-20130430[/url] This article says bribes were offered to [I]lift[/I] the snus ban.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41048068]Source? The only sources I can find cite the opposite of what you claim: [url]http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/en/newsdetails/news/dalligate/Dalli-says-European-Commission-wanted-to-lift-snus-ban-20130430[/url] This article says bribes were offered to [I]lift[/I] the snus ban.[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.friatider.se/korrupt-eu-chef-avgar-ombud-ville-ha-mutor-for-att-inte-forbjuda-snus[/url] - Basically the same man who was responsible for the tough tobacco laws, such as banning the export of snus, said, through a middleman, that he would accept bribes in order to drop future laws surrounding snus, such as banning it in Sweden. [url]http://www.thelocal.se/43982/20121023/[/url]

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41047919]The EU isn't the bureaucratic mess everyone says it is. [url=http://londyn.msz.gov.pl/en/news/0_seven_eu_myths_you_should_never_believe_]EDIT:[/url] [editline]15th June 2013[/editline] Yes, 33,000 people work for the European Commission, serving an entire continent. But more than 82,000 people work for HM Revenue & Customs alone. Spain has almost three million bureaucrats. In contrast to any of its members, the EU is a slimmed-down operation. [/QUOTE] 33,000 doesn't include every EU institution, but going from that the cost per staff for the EU is £180,000 and in the UK, for the same staff, it's £41,000..

[QUOTE=The fox;41048132][url]http://www.friatider.se/korrupt-eu-chef-avgar-ombud-ville-ha-mutor-for-att-inte-forbjuda-snus[/url] - Basically the same man who was responsible for the tough tobacco laws, such as banning the export of snus, said, through a middleman, that he would accept bribes in order to drop future laws surrounding snus, such as banning it in Sweden. [url]http://www.thelocal.se/43982/20121023/[/url][/QUOTE] From the looks of this, it does seem like this Dalli might have been corrupt. Good riddance of him if that was the case. But this still doesn't mean the EU itself has anything against Snus, which is what maeZtro seemed to say. [editline]15th June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=butt2089;41048170]33,000 doesn't include every EU institution, but going from that the cost per staff for the EU is £180,000 and in the UK, for the same staff, it's £41,000..[/QUOTE] How did you make that reasoning?

sucks for iceland hope they get swallowed up by a fissure in the atlantic ocean so more countries don't think this is a good idea

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41048201] How did you make that reasoning?[/QUOTE] EU administration budget divided by the number of employees, then UK public sector employees (excluding NHS etc.) divided by their total costs

[QUOTE=Riller;41045729]Fiscal policy does [I]not[/I] belong on an European level. Attempting to do that is basically what made Greece, Italy and whoever else is down the shitter utterly uable to unfuck themselves on their own. There's 17 different countries in the Eurozone running 17 different economies, all on the same [I]stupid fucking jack-of-all-trades-jesus-fuck-why-did-we-not-see-this-failing[/I] currency. [I]None[/I] of them have the ability to artificially in- or deflate their economy slightly to perform corrections and boost their import/export. If one of the countries' credit rating suddenly goes belly-side up (COUGH COUGH GREECE COUGH), they're all screwed over by it, because it's thier common currency that takes the hit in the international market.[/QUOTE] Somehow I doubt you're knowledgeable enough about economics to be saying this. The sovereign debt crisis is of course a problem but if you think it will be solved or otherwise 'resolved' by just cutting out states that aren't doing well, you're kidding yourself. It's no different than cutting off US states when they have a budget deficit (something we should not and do not do).

[QUOTE=Megafan;41048941]Somehow I doubt you're knowledgeable enough about economics to be saying this. The sovereign debt crisis is of course a problem but if you think it will be solved or otherwise 'resolved' by just cutting out states that aren't doing well, you're kidding yourself. It's no different than cutting off US states when they have a budget deficit (something we should not and do not do).[/QUOTE] Well if Greece were to be jettisoned for example, they would default on their debts, have a fiat currency which would be suitably devalued, could print sufficient money to increase inflation from -0.6% to ~+2% and help recapitalise an ailing banking sector. Their credit rating is already junk status so could hardly get much worse. All of this would have to be under a significantly more robust government that actually collects taxes, reduces the size of the public sector and cuts out corruption. However, I must admit that this is all very fanciful, the actual path for Greece is to remain within the Euro and have continued bailouts and austerity - there is no real plan to end the financial crisis other than 'well it might blow over soon'

[QUOTE=butt2089;41049110]Well if Greece were to be jettisoned for example, they would default on their debts, have a fiat currency which would be suitably devalued, could print sufficient money to increase inflation from -0.6% to ~+2% and help recapitalise an ailing banking sector. Their credit rating is already junk status so could hardly get much worse. All of this would have to be under a significantly more robust government that actually collects taxes, reduces the size of the public sector and cuts out corruption. However, I must admit that this is all very fanciful, the actual path for Greece is to remain within the Euro and have continued bailouts and austerity - there is no real plan to end the financial crisis other than 'well it might blow over soon'[/QUOTE] A better idea would be "let's keep Greece in the EU" because otherwise investors would lose all trust in the eurozone, and slowly start investing again. Just waiting for it to blow over is going to take too long, I think

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41047896]keep the Benelux as well please But yeah; I'd be fine with a "hard core" of the Eurozone being France, Germany and the Benelux. Other countries can join once their economy is up to our levels. I doubt, however, that this will ever happen, because the political ramifications will be disastrous.[/QUOTE] the issue with the eurozone are not weaker economies but vastly different ones. Notice how even weaker countries like Slovakia don't really have issues or pull stuff down. That's because they are build up similarly to the strong "core" and are nowhere near as reliant on tourism and other economy types. It's why an eurozone Uk wouldn't cause problems either for instance, but Italy can.

[QUOTE=deltasquid;41049248]A better idea would be "let's keep Greece in the EU" because otherwise investors would lose all trust in the eurozone, and slowly start investing again. Just waiting for it to blow over is going to take too long, I think[/QUOTE] Greece accounts for 1.6% of Europe's GDP, it's credit rating is junk and has rampant unemployment - how will that cause investors to lose [I]all[/I] trust when Germany is the Eurozone's cornerstone and no where else is any better as an area of investment? Not to mention the fact that Greece would no longer be a liability when investing in the Euro.

why fp hates EU?

[QUOTE=Megafan;41048941]Somehow I doubt you're knowledgeable enough about economics to be saying this. The sovereign debt crisis is of course a problem but if you think it will be solved or otherwise 'resolved' by just cutting out states that aren't doing well, you're kidding yourself. It's no different than cutting off US states when they have a budget deficit (something we should not and do not do).[/QUOTE] Well, they shouldn't have been a part of the Euro in the first place. The Euro shouldn't have been a [I]thing[/I] in the first place, because it is an inherently fucking retarded idea built on some sorta idealist thought that the European economy is too strong to ever come into high waters, and as such, prevention and reduction measures for individual countries won't ever be needed.

[QUOTE=Riller;41053116]The Euro shouldn't have been a [I]thing[/I] in the first place, because it is an inherently fucking retarded idea built on some sorta idealist thought that the European economy is too strong to ever come into high waters, and as such, prevention and reduction measures for individual countries won't ever be needed.[/QUOTE] Forgive me if I don't take your criticism very seriously, you sound more than a little biased about the subject. There is nothing inherently flawed about the concept of a European currency, but you can seriously say the execution wasn't as good as it could have been. A unified monetary policy for the Eurozone without unified fiscal policy wasn't going to work, but the answer to that is to make a unified fiscal policy, not dismantle the monetary policy system you spent years establishing.

[QUOTE=Riller;41053116]Well, they shouldn't have been a part of the Euro in the first place. The Euro shouldn't have been a [I]thing[/I] in the first place, because it is an inherently fucking retarded idea built on some sorta idealist thought that the European economy is too strong to ever come into high waters, and as such, prevention and reduction measures for individual countries won't ever be needed.[/QUOTE] The Euro is actually a good idea. The problem was that it was too wide and too unstrict at first. Should really have focused on certain economies first. The problem is a lot of tourist dependant nations jumped on board, because they felt it would make it easier for tourists. Just one of very many factors, but a fairly huge one.