Israel votes to authorise illegal settler homes on Palestinian land - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51486560]If Texas and California had been shooting rockets aimed at civilian centers then yes, Mexico would be entirely justified [/QUOTE] Every time an Israelite says "rocket" I laugh my ass off You know these "rockets" are pieces of pipe with a FIREWORK on the end of them? [img]http://ifamericansknew.org/images/totalkilledindex.png[/img] How the fuck can you justify -this- [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] That's the death toll since 2000, by the way.

Don't quote a graph that has no key beside it, for god's sake.

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51486609]Every time an Israelite says "rocket" I laugh my ass off You know these "rockets" are pieces of pipe with a FIREWORK on the end of them? [img]http://ifamericansknew.org/images/totalkilledindex.png[/img] How the fuck can you justify -this- [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] That's the death toll since 2000, by the way.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://catholicphilly.com/media-files/2012/11/israel-rocket.jpg[/IMG] That's the damage from a "firework" Also, the israelis don't use human shields which then get killed in collateral damage and the Palestinian death counts are often inflated by Palestinians

Damn Svinnik, that Starpluck ban definitely gave you the courage to preach your hateful nazi shit.

Note to self; threads concerning Israel are ones to avoid. Because christ a lot of you guys are being so bloody aggressive its hard to have a legit discussion.

[QUOTE=SeamanStains;51486705]Damn Svinnik, that Starpluck ban definitely gave you the courage to preach your hateful nazi shit.[/QUOTE] These arguments aren't anything new though? Also, how can anything I said be compared to Nazism?

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51486609]Every time an Israelite says "rocket" I laugh my ass off You know these "rockets" are pieces of pipe with a FIREWORK on the end of them? [img]http://ifamericansknew.org/images/totalkilledindex.png[/img] How the fuck can you justify -this- [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] That's the death toll since 2000, by the way.[/QUOTE] It doesn't matter what they are. Hamas choose to fire a rocket with intent to either kill or create terror in Israel, and disproportionate military retribution is the ONLY answer to intimidation like that. Israel isn't in a position to allow itself to be pushed in any direction. I don't agree with many decisions in Netanyahu's government but one thing I am completely supportive of is the military reaction whenever Hamas or any other organization attempts to cause any sort of stress or death in the Israeli population. The rightists in Israel will never give back lands after they left Gaza in 2005 only for it to become ruled by hostile terrorists not two years later.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51486666][IMG]http://catholicphilly.com/media-files/2012/11/israel-rocket.jpg[/IMG] That's the damage from a "firework" Also, the israelis don't use human shields which then get killed in collateral damage and the Palestinian death counts are often inflated by Palestinians[/QUOTE] Ah yes, the "human shield" argument, whereby you justify the bombing of literally ANY CIVILIAN STRUCTURE because you think it might have weapons in it's basement. Abominable.

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51486808]Ah yes, the "human shield" argument, whereby you justify the bombing of literally ANY CIVILIAN STRUCTURE because you think it might have weapons in it's basement. Abominable.[/QUOTE] Israel actively tries to prevent civilian casualties by calling and texting the people who are in the building that is getting bombed

[QUOTE=Bertie;51486800]Hamas choose to fire a rocket with intent to either kill or create terror in Israel, and disproportionate military retribution is the ONLY answer to intimidation like that.[/QUOTE] The right answer to intimidation is disproportionate military retribution which causes the death of innocent civilians? I'm sorry but I don't follow the alleged logic. What does such "retribution" achieve? Intimidation through display of force? That's basically terrorism. It's hypocritical to employ such means while criticizing Hamas for doing the same thing.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51486906]The right answer to intimidation is disproportionate military retribution which causes the death of innocent civilians? I'm sorry but I don't follow the alleged logic. What does such "retribution" achieve? Intimidation through display of force? That's basically terrorism. It's hypocritical to employ such means while criticizing Hamas for doing the same thing.[/QUOTE] Israel doesn't aim to kill civilians, unlike Hamas. Considering that Hamas is the democratically elected government in Gaza, I'm surprised that people rarely put the responsibility on them. Israel will protect its own civilians first, even if the cost is civilian deaths on the other side (that are certainly helped by Hamas behaviour). Any sensible country would act the same. Any country that would say "Our people are being bombed and we will not respond in aggressive force" is a country I would never want to live in.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51486492]Israel allows its citizens to move into the West Bank and allocates soldiers to protect their citizens in the west bank but doesn't encourage citizens to move into the West Bank. There's no tax breaks or special honor for moving into the west bank. how do we antagonize, we didn't start the last few wars and the Bibi govt tried to defuse the 2014 war before it happened because of army cuts. Gaza could have been the Singapore of the Middle East if the Palestinians had not elected Hamas, why should Israel be responsible for the bad decisions of the Palestinian people?[/QUOTE] Hamaz was elected as a response to Israel policy concerning the invasion and annexation of Palestine, not the other way around... Again, yes these guys are terrorists, but they are elected because the Palestinians do not want Israeli occupation and these guys are the only ones left that can form a somewhat coherent government after the Israeli political lobby destroyed any potency of a government able to get their hands dirty and get shit on the path to improving the lives of people on the ground. Israel has always and still is completely in control of the situation... they are perpetuating this situation for self gain and even though i am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in your reply to cultural genocide only some points you addressed had some flake of reason in them. [QUOTE] You mean like how we call them by the name of their [U]nation[/U], Palestine? [/QUOTE] Israel still does not even recognise Palestine as a state. [QUOTE] You mean like giving away the Gaza strip to Palestine?[/QUOTE] You mean the Palestinian territory of Gaza that is currently under strict economic sanctions and embargoes by Israel and the US? the one currently still under military occupation? [QUOTE] You mean like allowing Israel citizens to practice capitalism by buying Palestinian houses?[/QUOTE] They are massively Israeli/US tax payer funded through tax except NGO's and other tax plans for settlement organisations, also they are glorified as spreaders of culture and civilisation to the Palestinian wastelands by government bodies... You should know you can just grab a pamplet about them at any local Israeli library. There are several legal cases running right now in Israel AND the US about this atm... they have not surmounted to anything "yet" but it will be interesting to see how your kind of narrative survives losing one legal case after the other since the evidence is quite substantial, including the guy who blew the lid on it currently serving time for releasing and possessing classified Israeli documents (so you cant really claim they are fake if he does time for it lol) [QUOTE] You mean like allowing them to have equal rights under Israeli law when they are [/QUOTE] Romans spread Rome through Roman law... everyone is the same in the end as long as everyone bows for the glory of Rome, right? [QUOTE] You mean allowing anti Palestinian propaganda to be drawn by Israeli citizens while the government doesn't participate in making anti-Palestinian propaganda, just hasbara propaganda.[/QUOTE] Nm, you obviously never been to Israel or are so indoctrinated you cant see the propaganda war on both sides going on... I wish i read this first so i woudnt have put any effort into these posts in the first place.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51486894]Israel actively tries to prevent civilian casualties by calling and texting the people who are in the building that is getting bombed[/QUOTE] "Hey we believe there are weapons in your basement. Please leave your home and watch it get blown to smithereens." Im not trying simplify the issue. Terrorosm is a difficult matter and I am sure they also make it hard to fight them without harming innocents. But do you at least understand Israel still is not in the complete right on this issue? I see their reasoning, but they are still in the gray zone of this.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51486941]Israel doesn't aim to kill civilians, unlike Hamas.[/QUOTE] Does that matter when the end result is the same or worse? I don't really give a shit what they aim to do, what matters is their actions, not their intent. [QUOTE]Considering that Hamas is the democratically elected government in Gaza, I'm surprised that people rarely put the responsibility on them. Israel will protect its own civilians first, even if the cost is civilian deaths on the other side (that are certainly helped by Hamas behaviour). Any sensible country would act the same. Any country that would say "Our people are being bombed and we will not respond in aggressive force" is a country I would never want to live in.[/QUOTE] I put responsibility on Hamas. Here's the catch though: Responsibility can be shared, and when you're the country that directly causes the civilian deaths you can't deny responsibility for it. Saying "but it was to kill the bad guys" does not grant you absolution for the innocents you killed in the process. So yes, Israel is (obviously) responsible too for the deaths caused by the attacks it carries out. The most ironic part is that Hamas could use the exact same bullshit argument you're using to defend their own attacks. Shit, they might even have more legitimacy considering they're the one with the higher death toll.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51487006]Does that matter when the end result is the same or worse? I don't really give a shit what they aim to do, what matters is their actions, not their intent. I put responsibility on Hamas. Here's the catch though: Responsibility can be shared, and when you're the country that directly causes the civilian deaths you can't deny responsibility for it. Saying "but it was to kill the bad guys" does not grant you absolution for the innocents you killed in the process. The most ironic part is that Hamas could use the exact same bullshit argument you're using to defend their own attacks. Shit, they might even have more legitimacy considering they're the one with the higher death toll.[/QUOTE] Hamas, as the instigators, cannot make that argument. I have no idea how you think that they can. Nothing in your post convinced me. Civilian casualties will always happen when the enemy you're fighting against fires missiles from neighbourhoods and hospitals (when Hamas can easily waltz over to a nearby field and shoot their rockets from there). It's a harsh reality and short of a full invasion and military control of Gaza (something that existed until 11 years ago) there isn't anything Israel can do other than fight back or sit in silence and accept being attacked with rockets.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51487042]Hamas, as the instigators, cannot make that argument. I have no idea how you think that they can. Nothing in your post convinced me. Civilian casualties will always happen when the enemy you're fighting against fires missiles from neighbourhoods and hospitals (when Hamas can easily waltz over to a nearby field and shoot their rockets from there). It's a harsh reality and short of a full invasion and military control of Gaza (something that existed until 11 years ago) there isn't anything Israel can do other than fight back or sit in silence and accept being attacked with rockets.[/QUOTE] You disgust me. I'm really tired of pro-israel people waving the "They cannot claim that they did not deserve to die" when innocent civilians are slain in the thousands. It's literally dehumanizing the entire population and literally analogous to genocide. [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] God, it reminds me of a huge kid beating the shit out of a little one on a playground because he was throwing tiny pebbles, and the only reason he was throwing pebbles was because he was afraid of being murdered. [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] Do you not understand that deescalation is the best possible outcome?

[QUOTE=Bertie;51487042]Hamas, as the instigators, cannot make that argument. I have no idea how you think that they can. Nothing in your post convinced me. Civilian casualties will always happen when the enemy you're fighting against fires missiles from neighbourhoods and hospitals (when Hamas can easily waltz over to a nearby field and shoot their rockets from there). It's a harsh reality and short of a full invasion and military control of Gaza (something that existed until 11 years ago) there isn't anything Israel can do other than fight back or sit in silence and accept being attacked with rockets.[/QUOTE] How are they the instigators? Hamas as an organisation is younger then the conflict itself... Like dont get me wrong, [U]again... lets make it absolutely clear for everyone i fully admit these guys are terrorists[/U], but they are a reactive force to Israeli occupation post 6day war, not the other way around.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51487042]Hamas, as the instigators, cannot make that argument. I have no idea how you think that they can.[/QUOTE] So anything goes as long as you didn't start it? "He did it first" is an argument that stops being relevant once you reach adulthood, and is even less so for a country. If Hamas was replaced by another organization, which didn't take part in the previous bombings, would that organization, then, be justified in bombing Israel in the name of all the civilians who died to Israel's previous attacks? That reasoning seems very flimsy to me. [QUOTE]Nothing in your post convinced me. Civilian casualties will always happen when the enemy you're fighting against fires missiles from neighbourhoods and hospitals (when Hamas can easily waltz over to a nearby field and shoot their rockets from there). It's a harsh reality and short of a full invasion and military control of Gaza (something that existed until 11 years ago) there isn't anything Israel can do other than fight back or sit in silence and accept being attacked with rockets.[/QUOTE] Given that the Palestinian population, despite being used as a shield by Hamas, still despises Israel, maybe it's a sign that bombing them doesn't magically make them friendly towards Israel and just makes them support Hamas even more? In which case you're not putting an end to the conflict, you're perpetrating it. In any case, it's absurd to claim an act is righteous when it causes even more wrong than what it's retaliating against in the first place, and your posts don't convince me otherwise either.

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51486969]Hamaz was elected as a response to Israel policy concerning the invasion and annexation of Palestine, not the other way around... Again, yes these guys are terrorists, but they are elected because the Palestinians do not want Israeli occupation and these guys are the only ones left that can form a somewhat coherent government after the Israeli political lobby destroyed any potency of a government able to get their hands dirty and get shit on the path to improving the lives of people on the ground. Israel has always and still is completely in control of the situation... they are perpetuating this situation for self gain and even though i am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt in your reply to cultural genocide only some points you addressed had some flake of reason in them. Israel still does not even recognise Palestine as a state. You mean the Palestinian territory of Gaza that is currently under strict economic sanctions and embargoes by Israel and the US? the one currently still under military occupation? They are massively Israeli/US tax payer funded through tax except NGO's and other tax plans for settlement organisations, also they are glorified as spreaders of culture and civilisation to the Palestinian wastelands by government bodies... You should know you can just grab a pamplet about them at any local Israeli library. There are several legal cases running right now in Israel AND the US about this atm... they have not surmounted to anything "yet" but it will be interesting to see how your kind of narrative survives losing one legal case after the other since the evidence is quite substantial, including the guy who blew the lid on it currently serving time for releasing and possessing classified Israeli documents (so you cant really claim they are fake if he does time for it lol) Romans spread Rome through Roman law... everyone is the same in the end as long as everyone bows for the glory of Rome, right? Nm, you obviously never been to Israel or are so indoctrinated you cant see the propaganda war on both sides going on... I wish i read this first so i woudnt have put any effort into these posts in the first place.[/QUOTE] I was born in Israel and lived there for 5 years and a few months when I was a teenager, i can tell you that there was very little government funded propaganda that I saw. [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] [QUOTE=da space core;51486985]"Hey we believe there are weapons in your basement. Please leave your home and watch it get blown to smithereens." Im not trying simplify the issue. Terrorosm is a difficult matter and I am sure they also make it hard to fight them without harming innocents. But do you at least understand Israel still is not in the complete right on this issue? I see their reasoning, but they are still in the gray zone of this.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's a moral grey zone, but I sympathize with Israel more because the israelis really don't want to bomb innocents but their hand is forced

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51487134]I was born in Israel and lived there for 5 years and a few months when I was a teenager, i can tell you that there was very little government funded propaganda that I saw.[/QUOTE] The point of propaganda is you don't necessarily realize it's there. [QUOTE]Yeah, it's a moral grey zone, but I sympathize with Israel more because the israelis really don't want to bomb innocents but their hand is forced[/QUOTE] And other people sympathize with Palestine more because they're the one with the most deaths. Sympathy is subjective and doesn't say anything about righteousness of actions.

[QUOTE=Radical_ed;51487062]You disgust me. [/QUOTE] I'm so so sorry. I'm not gonna read or reply to the rest of your post though, I try to avoid shit-flinging. [QUOTE=Blizzerd;51487106]How are they the instigators? Hamas as an organisation is younger then the conflict itself... Like dont get me wrong, [U]again... lets make it absolutely clear for everyone i fully admit these guys are terrorists[/U], but they are a reactive force to Israeli occupation post 6day war, not the other way around.[/QUOTE] Hamas as an organization started the armed conflict with Israel. Israel wouldn't have touched Gaza otherwise. [QUOTE=_Axel;51487112]So anything goes as long as you didn't start it? "He did it first" is an argument that stops being relevant once you reach adulthood, and is even less so for a country. If Hamas was replaced by another organization, which didn't take part in the previous bombings, would that organization, then, be justified in bombing Israel in the name of all the civilians who died to Israel's previous attacks? That reasoning seems very flimsy to me. Given that the Palestinian population, despite being used as a shield by Hamas, still despises Israel, maybe it's a sign that bombing them doesn't magically make them friendly towards Israel and just makes them support Hamas even more? In which case you're not putting an end to the conflict, you're perpetrating it. In any case, it's absurd to claim an act is righteous when it causes even more wrong than what it's retaliating against in the first place, and your posts don't convince me otherwise either.[/QUOTE] Yeah, if Hamas start a fight, get wrecked by a superior force (which they knew would happen) and then proceed to keep the engagement going, causing more civilian deaths, they can't make any argument that they are attacking Israel because of casualties in Gaza. There wouldn't be even a single Israeli-caused casualty in Gaza post-2005 if it wasn't for Hamas. They gain nothing whatsoever from attacking Israel other than demonizing it in the international media. Israel doesn't try to befriend the population of Gaza, they are trying to protect their own population. They are not interested in making nice, and they shouldn't be.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51487180]Yeah, if Hamas start a fight, get wrecked by a superior force (which they knew would happen) and then proceed to keep the engagement going, causing more civilian deaths, they can't make any argument that they are attacking Israel because of casualties in Gaza. There wouldn't be even a single Israeli-caused casualty in Gaza post-2005 if it wasn't for Hamas. They gain nothing whatsoever from attacking Israel other than demonizing it in the international media.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=_Axel;51487112]If Hamas was replaced by another organization, which didn't take part in the previous bombings, would that organization, then, be justified in bombing Israel in the name of all the civilians who died to Israel's previous attacks?[/QUOTE] Hamas being the first to cause harm doesn't make Israel's hands squeaky clean. [QUOTE]Israel doesn't try to befriend the population of Gaza, they are trying to protect their own population. They are not interested in making nice, and they shouldn't be.[/QUOTE] What? We're not talking about befriending or "making nice", we're talking about [B]not killing fucking civilians.[/B] It's not a question of having good relations with a nation, it's a question of [I]basic human rights.[/I] "Not being interested in making nice" doesn't excuse killing people, why do you even think that's an argument, seriously? Besides, antagonizing themselves by killing Palestinian civilians [I]does[/I] put their own population in danger by bolstering Palestinian support for Hamas.

[QUOTE=_Axel;51487213]Hamas being the first to cause harm doesn't make Israel's hands squeaky clean. What? We're not talking about befriending or "making nice", we're talking about [B]not killing fucking civilians.[/B] It's not a question of having good relations with a nation, it's a question of [I]basic human rights.[/I][/QUOTE] I never said Israel's hands are squeaky clean, and I think it's far from it in fact (I am mostly against what is going on in the west bank for example, having personally toured it twice), but I can't take seriously anyone who puts the blame of the Gaza situation mostly on Israel. It's as if Hamas and the citizens of Gaza are a bunch of screaming children and Israel is the adult so they aren't allowed to slap them. The citizens of Gaza detest Israel for bombing them so they join Hamas? But Israel only bombs Gaza because of Hamas, why don't the citizens of Gaza fight against Hamas? Killing enemy civilians is an unavoidable by-product of engaging a terrorist enemy hiding in a very very highly populated city. As far as I can see, there is literally no other option. What else would Israel do? Do you have any proposition?

[QUOTE=Bertie;51487180]I'm so so sorry. I'm not gonna read or reply to the rest of your post though, I try to avoid shit-flinging.[/QUOTE] Fair enough, but your feelings have no bearing on the fact that it can be argued to be a cultural genocide. [QUOTE=Bertie;51487180]Hamas as an organization started the armed conflict with Israel. Israel wouldn't have touched Gaza otherwise. [/QUOTE] Hamas is an organisation that was founded in 1988, Israeli occupation started during the 3th of the 6 days in the 6 day war, thats 1967. So Hamas started a conflict a full 21 years before the day of its founding by your logic... [QUOTE=Bertie;51487180]Yeah, if Hamas start a fight, get wrecked by a superior force (which they knew would happen) and then proceed to keep the engagement going, causing more civilian deaths, they can't make any argument that they are attacking Israel because of casualties in Gaza. There wouldn't be even a single Israeli-caused casualty in Gaza post-2005 if it wasn't for Hamas. They gain nothing whatsoever from attacking Israel other than demonizing it in the international media. [/QUOTE] Not only is that not what happened, its also a demonstrable lie built on the false premise that Hamas started the 6 day war (again, 21 years before they were founded). Israel did, and not against Hamas or Palestine but against [U]Egypt[/U]... Egypt lost pretty quick (hence the 6 days in 6 day war) and guess what... they are on the Israeli side now, [B]there is literally no fucking reason why this conflict needs to be perpetuated[/B] other then maybe simple imperialism. Here, some education [URL]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War[/URL] You have shown to simply not understand what this conflict is about... neither party is blameless, and the people that started this conflict are no longer in the picture... its just 2 parties, team red and team blue flinging shit at each other in the best way possible with the limitations they have. Both sides are shit, but at this point only Israel has the power to actually fix this massive cluster fuck and they actively choose not to for the last 30 years now... thats where Hamas comes in, the more desperate the position of Palestine becomes, the more violent Hamas gets. [QUOTE=Bertie;51487180]Israel doesn't try to befriend the population of Gaza, they are trying to protect their own population. They are not interested in making nice, and they shouldn't be.[/QUOTE] The only way to solve this conflict permanently is to do exactly what you said Israel has no interest in... befriending the population of Gaza. If they do that, 90% of the problems just evaporate... In a way you yourself must realise this is suspicious as fuck.

[QUOTE=Bertie;51487249]I never said Israel's hands are squeaky clean, and I think it's far from it in fact (I am mostly against what is going on in the west bank for example, having personally toured it twice), but I can't take seriously anyone who puts the blame of the Gaza situation mostly on Israel.[/QUOTE] Who said I put it mostly on them? [QUOTE]It's as if Hamas and the citizens of Gaza are a bunch of screaming children and Israel is the adult so they aren't allowed to slap them.[/QUOTE] When the death toll of Palestinians is ten times that of Israelis, it's not "slapping" them. You said it yourself, it's [I]disproportionate[/I] retribution. [QUOTE]The citizens of Gaza detest Israel for bombing them so they join Hamas? But Israel only bombs Gaza because of Hamas, why don't the citizens of Gaza fight against Hamas?[/QUOTE] Because between the ones who send missiles on them and those who hide among them to retaliate against the attackers, it's kinda clear cut for civilians who is the greater evil. The ones who kill them. Not that I share that opinion, but it's not really hard to understand their point of view. [QUOTE]Killing enemy civilians is an unavoidable by-product of engaging a terrorist enemy hiding in a very very highly populated city. As far as I can see, there is literally no other option. What else would Israel do? Do you have any proposition?[/QUOTE] Well not believing shit like this would be a start: [QUOTE=Bertie;51486800]Hamas choose to fire a rocket with intent to either kill or create terror in Israel, and disproportionate military retribution is the ONLY answer to intimidation like that. Israel isn't in a position to allow itself to be pushed in any direction. I don't agree with many decisions in Netanyahu's government but one thing I am completely supportive of is the military reaction whenever Hamas or any other organization attempts to cause any sort of stress or death in the Israeli population.[/QUOTE] Believing in the utter righteousness of [I]disproportionate[/I] military retribution for [I]mere intimidation[/I] while disregarding the lives of civilians on the other side of the border isn't going to tame the conflict in any way. Not calling into question the validity of violently retaliating when said retaliation causes [I]ten times[/I] the amount of deaths you are trying to prevent for your own population is quite questionable. At which point does it become not worth it to kill population from outside the country to save your own? 10 of theirs for one of your own? 100 of theirs? Why not just nuke them if that further prevents deaths on your side? At some point you have to stop and ask yourself if what you do is just.

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51487134] Yeah, it's a moral grey zone, but I sympathize with Israel more because the israelis really don't want to bomb innocents but their hand is forced[/QUOTE] "We [I]really[/I] didnt want to bomb those thousands of innocent civilians but they forced our hand!" is not exactly the moral "gray zone" you want to be arguing from

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51486894]Israel actively tries to prevent civilian casualties by calling and texting the people who are in the building that is getting bombed[/QUOTE] What the fuck dude What kind of fucking reality do you live in? The Gaza strip is one the most densely populated areas on this planet, now tell me where they should fucking go? Israeli method is "Knock on the roof" which is basically " BOMB THE BUILDNING ONCE THEN RAZE IT DOWN WITH ANOTHER BOMB" Where the hell do you expect people to run? and oh let's not forget about the usage of Phosphore shells on human beings or is that totally not [B]terrorism[/B]? I wouldn't be surprised if you, the JIDF denied that. Seriously for gods sake how brainwashed are you? you keep blaming HAMAS and the Palestinian authority for everything while you're too blind to see the only one who has power to create peace is the Israeli goverment. Don't forget Hamas was founded in 1987. "Israel actively tries to prevent civilian casualties" Israel do not give a single fuck about Palestinian lives. The random harassments at checkpoints ( experienced that my self this year", and stealing more land for settlers and you wonder why they resist. Every single human being has the right to defend himself and resist an occupation. Open up you're tiny closed mind for the sake of humanity and seek a solution instead of justifying everything Israel does.

[QUOTE=DogGunn;51485254] I implied there is some justification in occupying the land because of that.[/QUOTE] Well guess what, any sane person rejects that. There is no justification of robbing people of the land and property they live in especially when they had little or nothing to do with what supposedly justifies it. Why are you surprised Hamas and the region's other terrorist groups continue to thrive when the actions of the State of Israel keep generating discontent amongst the people they affect, to the degree that some will rationalise said terrorism as justice for the suffering they, people they know or simply fellow countrymen are subjected to?

[QUOTE=Svinnik;51486894]Israel actively tries to prevent civilian casualties by calling and texting the people who are in the building that is getting bombed[/QUOTE] Oh god this is the worst justification for anything I have ever read. Like holy shit, I had to log in to say how much of a laugh this gave me. "Hey buddy we're bombing the building you're in. Don't get bombed. Also, it's entirely on you if that happens not our fault okay peace out."

[QUOTE=Bertie;51487180]Hamas as an organization started the armed conflict with Israel. Israel wouldn't have touched Gaza otherwise.[/QUOTE] [citation needed]