Israel votes to authorise illegal settler homes on Palestinian land - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Blizzerd;51490920]Also lets not forget Israel started the 6 day war with egypt over "suspicious troop movements" on egypt soil by egypt forces.[/QUOTE] Yes, as in Egypt lined up their forces on Israeli borders, kicked out UN troops in the area, and closed the Gulf of Aqaba to Israeli ships, effectively forcing a blockade on the Israeli city of Elat. At the same time, Egypt also forged military alliances with both Jordan and Iraq, not to mention the already tense situation between Israel and Syria on their northern border. Yeah, Israel probably should have just waited for the attack coming from all directions before acting... please. [editline]6th December 2016[/editline] Let's also not forget the previous attempt of the Arab nations at destroying the newly found nation of Israel in 1948, only ~20 years previous.

Change must come from palestinian people Haahahahah Talk about being uninformed about the situation, which is also being supported by Israel. The PLO and the PNA many times would get down to an agreement, but some religious dickheads (Including a prime minister once who said he should follow his religion rather than be a human being) didn't want to happen. Good job. Here, if you are truly uninformed about what's going on want to know more: [url]http://www.psqonline.org/viewContent.cfm?sk=21E9F5CBD6D609F9CB16C2DE4EA86BD307C8EDAAAD1396C0A69AB8DEB9D2FFCF[/url] [url]https://www.crisisgroup.org/middle-east-north-africa/eastern-mediterranean/israelpalestine/no-exit-gaza-israel-between-wars[/url] Btw, very repulsing to see some people equating the situation to the Japan-American front. Like if Hamas had UAVs, Tanks, the support of a global superpower, airstrikes etc etc. They are not by ANY means the party with most power, and their power does not come close to that of Israel. When you are the party with the most power, and you kill civilians who had nothing to do in retaliation, expel people from their living zones without recompensation because "Oh we were displaced from the world, and these people attacked us in the past", interfere anytime a jew commits a crime against a palestinian and block the PNA from doing anything, support the efforts of settlers who destroy the economic activity of other people and much more. When you do that, you are in no position to be called a victim or less, justify your position. And yes, if the palestinians WERE, "WERE" because that's NOT the case at all, doing this, I would also criticize them.

[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;51491127]Change must come from palestinian people Haahahahah Talk about being uninformed about the situation, which is also being supported by Israel. The PLO and the PNA many times would get down to an agreement, but some religious dickheads (Including a prime minister once who said he should follow his religion rather than be a human being) didn't want to happen. Good job. [/QUOTE] There has never been a religious PM of Israel, all have been secular so for a PM to say that he wants to follow his religion doesn't make sense. The Palestinians would have gotten everything they wanted if Abu Mazen hadn't rejected the 2008 peace treaty.

Yeah man, so endangered, so threatened Israel is obviously the victim here [IMG]https://i1.wp.com/www.romanoprodi.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/palestine.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=phygon;51491408]Yeah man, so endangered, so threatened Israel is obviously the victim here [IMG]https://i1.wp.com/www.romanoprodi.it/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/palestine.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] There was never a state of Palestine to begin with, the British mandate abandoned the land to whoever could take it first and the Israelis took it first. Besides, that map ignores the Jewish presence in Hebron, Jerusalem, and a few other cities. The land marked Palestine in the 49-67 map was never controlled by the Palestinians, it was controlled by the Jordanians and the Egyptians

[QUOTE=Marbalo;51491616]There really needs to be some sort of FP Israel thread simulator video. I've gotten a deja vu of a deja vu of a deja vu reading this post. I cant even recall the number of times its been explained that it isn't the Palestine you're talking about, and it wasn't land grab but literally territory annexed by war, and how even if it was a land grab there is nothing to be done at this point in time. What are you going to do, give all the land back to the Palestinians? Can we also take back all the infrastructure we built when we leave like hospitals, schools, roads too? That's technically ours. They can have the land, I guess. Anyway, as I said, excellent thread.[/QUOTE] I just love how you guys only responded to the bad and baseless arguments in this thread, you're no better than those you're complaining about. And then the change must come from the Palestinian people? You can't ruin millions of people for decades, then when they get clearly pissed off and retaliate more and more because their land is in rubble, have the audacity to say that the change needs to come from them. What, they should just accept the destruction of their livelihood, because if not you'll keep strangling them? Right. [editline]7th December 2016[/editline] If they didn't keep getting brutalised people would be less inclined to be radicalised. That is a given.

Man,the hypocrisy coming from the pro-israelis is hilarious.They contradict their own statements so many times that it is sad.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;51491839]I tried responding to most arguments made in this thread, and have also tried clarifying that change must come from the Palestinians because their current suffering doesn't just boil down to the occasional airstrike, but rather the fact that Hamas is repressing all forms of education, freedom of speech and expression in their territory, something which is directly perpetuating their low quality of life more-so than the sanctions and restrictions imposed by Israel. They're being brutalized by both sides, except one side is actually supposed to be their governing body that should be responsible for their well-being, instead they routinely use them as literal human shields as a means to gain political favor. And again, notice how nobody in this thread except Axel proposed any solutions to the problems they bring up other than the unrealistic expectation that Israel simply stops fighting. You guys are really great at criticizing and making bold humanitarian stances regarding conflicts really, really far away from you, how come I've never seen any actual solutions being proposed in these threads alongside the critique? Would that not be more helpful than to constantly try and find the wrongs and rights? This would make the discussion useful and informative, instead however you often get bogged down in petty squabble about intricacies and "who fired first" nonsense where that shouldn't even be the primary concern.[/QUOTE] 'The occasional airstrike' really is taking the piss isn't it. It's statements like that that rile people up to the point of shit flinging pointless arguments. A good first step would be recognising that it really isn't just 'the occasional airstrike'. Come on.

Would a peaceful alternative be something like the Peace Process in Northern Ireland were there is a joint executive between the two main political forces? Is that feasible or possible? Is a two-state solution possible?

[QUOTE=Marbalo;51491839]I tried responding to most arguments made in this thread, and have also tried clarifying that change must come from the Palestinians because their current suffering doesn't just boil down to the occasional airstrike, but rather the fact that Hamas is repressing all forms of education, freedom of speech and expression in their territory, something which is directly perpetuating their low quality of life more-so than the sanctions and restrictions imposed by Israel. They're being brutalized by both sides, except one side is actually supposed to be their governing body that should be responsible for their well-being, instead they routinely use them as literal human shields as a means to gain political favor. And again, notice how nobody in this thread except Axel proposed any solutions to the problems they bring up other than the unrealistic expectation that Israel simply stops fighting. You guys are really great at criticizing and making bold humanitarian stances regarding conflicts really, really far away from you, how come I've never seen any actual solutions being proposed in these threads alongside the critique? Would that not be more helpful than to constantly try and find the wrongs and rights? This would make the discussion useful and informative, instead however you often get bogged down in petty squabble about intricacies and "who fired first" nonsense where that shouldn't even be the primary concern.[/QUOTE] Dude, did you even read what i said in this thread? i was there in 2013... i was working my ass off for jack shit on the ground and all i got was a stupid fucking metal plaque and a handshake from a guy almost in tears apologising and saying what basically came down to 'sorry for wasting your time, maybe next time' Wanna know who fucking blew up those talks???? the same fucking twat that the talks previously agreed to all the main points from the Bill Clinton talks (the same always used as 'if only the Palestinians agree with these points lol' and the same always used as the kickoff for every talk since) and same as before, once the actual signing of documents became relevant there was only one guy that flipped the table... Benjamin fucking Netanjahu. Israel is stringing palestine on since 2000, its so obvious for anyone on the ground its ridiculous... they benefit from this situation and thus they maintain it and feed the Israeli people lies. Hamas are scumfucks doing the same but they simply dont have the power politically or financially to keep perpetuating the situation, if Israel wanted peace with Palestine it could literally happen in a couple days and they could do so even with saying 'we dont want to negotiate with hamas though' and that would work... In fact this has been offered before.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;51491881]... But the occasional airstrike is what comprises most of the collateral damage on civilians, more so than the damage caused by soldiers on the ground. I wasnt downplaying the seriousness of it by adding "occasional" to it, because it is, you know, occasional. We dont bomb Gaza day in day out all year round.[/QUOTE] Yes, my point being that bombing Palestine isn't the only Israeli cause of Palestinian suffering. What of the water and agricultural appropriation? racial segregation in occupied lands (which I hear is to protect both sides from each other)? Substantial demolition and embargoes on construction? Communications discrimination? Literally killing innocents is not the only cause of suffering and discontent and that seems to be rarely accepted from your side because 'hamas is terrorist'. For one, how much power do you think Hamas have compared to the Israeli government? And for two recognise why terrorism now infests the situation. Ignorance and naivety only perpetuates suffering here.

[QUOTE=Marbalo;51491616]It wasn't land grab but literally territory annexed by war.[/QUOTE] I often see this argument but I don't really see how that's any better. Would western opinion of Russia be any friendlier if they annexed Crimea through war rather than political ploy? Nations who do that are generally seen as imperialistic and I don't understand why Israel should be an exception. [QUOTE=Marbalo;51491839]I tried responding to most arguments made in this thread, and have also tried clarifying that change must come from the Palestinians because their current suffering doesn't just boil down to the occasional airstrike, but rather the fact that Hamas is repressing all forms of education, freedom of speech and expression in their territory, something which is directly perpetuating their low quality of life more-so than the sanctions and restrictions imposed by Israel. They're being brutalized by both sides, except one side is actually supposed to be their governing body that should be responsible for their well-being, instead they routinely use them as literal human shields as a means to gain political favor.[/QUOTE] Why does change have to come from exclusively one side? You've said yourself that the general Israeli population had some pretty skewed ideas of what is just when it comes to treatment of Palestinians. I don't really see things changing without putting an end to that mentality.

illegally, Isn't when annex a country it's then legal? as that country no longer exists to be annex.

This thread reminds me the days with Lamar and Starpluck Good times...

[QUOTE=Marbalo;51491932]Are you sure you were actually "on the ground", dude? Because how could anyone possibly come to the conclusion that the talks failed because "Benjamin fucking Netanjahu" is beyond me, there were quite clearly several different big key aspects of it, the whole releasing prisoners early fiasco that also accelerated the collapse of the talks is also pretty huge and has little to do with Benjamin and far more to do with Erekat.[/QUOTE] The prisoners part was agreed on before even the talks started, Your quote basically says 'Cohen thinks X, perfectly unbiased lol' Dont get me wrong, mistakes were made on both sides, for example Abbas should have never signed the entrance documents into all those fucking international organizations /during/ the talks being in a rut, but the idea behind it is Israel was stalling the conversation and they thought they could slightly nudge the talks back into action... not have Netanjahu flip his shit. Maybe my frustration made me overemphasize the personal importance of Benjamin, but he has been pretty instrumental in blowing up almost every peace talk he participated in...