• Muslims must embrace our British values, David Cameron says
    340 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27866910]and what exactly is "being british" beyond being a citizen? Do they also have to love british comedy and soccer? Or do they have be Anglican and not eat ethnic food or something?[/QUOTE] Nope just no Muslims allowed
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27866906]According to this article British values are freedom of religion unless you are Muslim in which case you need to stop being Muslim and start being British ASAP edit: yeah, exactly. "Freedom and equality". Tell me again why this was targeted at Muslims? Because that doesn't sound very fucking equal to me.[/QUOTE] You've got some serious reading and comprehension problems, son [QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27866910]and what exactly is "being british" beyond being a citizen? Do they also have to love british comedy and soccer? Or do they have be Anglican and not eat ethnic food or something?[/QUOTE] You too
[QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;27866910]and what exactly is "being british" beyond being a citizen? Do they also have to love british comedy and soccer? Or do they have be Anglican and not eat ethnic food or something?[/QUOTE] No they just have to not try to force everyone to follow muslim food restrictions, muslim sex restrictions, muslim teachings and muslim laws. ARE YOU DENSE.
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27866902]Are you actually this stupid or are you blind[/QUOTE] telling immigrants to speak english and teaching elements of a "common culture" (because who cares about the cornish and welsh rite?) is not what freedom and equality means you might think you're clever by calling someone stupid or blind, but you're not "chap"
Muslims need to accept the British society not the other way around. I like Cameron, he a dare criticize but of course people will bitch about this and stamp a swastika on his forehead.
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27866934]You've got some serious reading and comprehension problems, son[/QUOTE] Glad to see you're answering my question in a timely manner Tell me again - why is this targeted at Muslims and how can you pass this off as "equality"? I read the article just fine and now I'm asking a question about it. I'm waiting [quote]“But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn’t white, we’ve been too cautious, frankly too fearful, to stand up to them.”[/quote] See how is that quote anything but racism
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27866814]I would argue that they're not citizens if they don't want to hold the country's values and practice its traditions. The article makes specific mention of "extremist" groups - in other words, those who would wish harm upon this country through radicalisation and violence. Again, I must point out that this just doesn't apply solely to Muslims. The same could be said of immigrants from the Republic of Ireland.[/QUOTE] Defining what those traditions and values are sort of becomes a no-true-scotsman issue. Even then, stripping someone of their citizenship because they do not comply with the majority of the country is still abuse. Extremist groups like the ones mentioned still must follow the laws of society and violence from them would not be tolerated with or without additional laws. It applies to Muslims as well as Irish. It also applies to African or Indian immigrants who follow the way they have lived previously instead of how the UK says they should. Basically everyone who goes to the UK must follow their culture to a degree, even if it is not troublesome or dangerous. The law should make no distinction over these different groups so what applies to one must apply to all. I know there is no law protective someone's culture but theirs should be protected just like anyone else's. It may not be one you agree with but it's got about as much validity as yours. You fear for yourse but people are actively trying to destroy theirs, how do you think they feel?
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27866814] I would argue that they're not citizens if they don't want to hold the country's values and practice its traditions.[/QUOTE] that's bollocks as well are british punks not citizens? what about buddhists? what about atheists, ultimately british values and traditions are heavily entwined with the anglican church...
[QUOTE=Lust;27866938]No they just have to not try to force everyone to follow muslim food restrictions, muslim sex restrictions, muslim teachings and muslim laws.[/QUOTE] but muslims aren't trying to do that. A [b]small[/b], vocal group are occasionally trying to do things like that, but the vast majority of muslims don't believe that. Should the majority be punished for what a minority does?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27866961]Glad to see you're answering my question in a timely manner Tell me again - why is this targeted at Muslims and how can you pass this off as "equality"? I read the article just fine and now I'm asking a question about it. I'm waiting See how is that quote anything but racism[/QUOTE] This is targeted at Muslims since they got a poor view on human values due to the cultural background. It scares me that some politicians even consider sharia laws, so Cameron openness is very welcoming.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;27866983] I know there is no law protective someone's culture but theirs should be protected just like anyone else's. [/QUOTE] if liberals are what we are, then we must act like liberals.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=drQETQ2iprU[/media] [img_thumb]I know it says US[/img_thumb]
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27866996]This is targeted at Muslims since they got a poor view on human values due to the cultural background. It scares me that some politicians even consider sharia laws.[/QUOTE] you don't know shit about british muslims and don't even pretend you do
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27866906]Tell me again why this was targeted at Muslims? Because that doesn't sound very fucking equal to me.[/QUOTE] Seeing as I've already said it once, I will tell you again. The telegraph is notoriously anti-Muslim. Just have a look at [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8126357/Muslims-clash-with-police-after-burning-poppy-in-anti-Armistice-Day-protest.html]some[/url] of the [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8150247/Muslim-pupils-learn-to-cut-off-hands-of-thieves.html]articles[/url] they [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html]write[/url]. If you had took the time to read the article properly, you would have realised that the paper was paraphrasing what Cameron was saying and drawing their own conclusions. The only mention of Muslims by Cameron was regarding the importance of distinguishing extremist Muslims from traditional Muslims; “We need to be clear: Islamic extremism and Islam are not the same thing”. This is perfectly understandable, considering that it was extremist Muslims who carried out the recent London Bombings.
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27867008]The only mention of Muslims by Cameron [/QUOTE] that's a total cop-out, the big hot-topic issue about immigrants right now are muslims, it's obvious that he meant muslims
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27866934] You too[/QUOTE] No, you didn't provide a good rebuttal to that claim. Claiming that immigrants can't really be called citizens if they don't want to follow the "traditions and values": [quote]I would argue that they're not citizens if they don't want to hold the country's values and practice its traditions.[/quote] of the country is laughable because there are going to be millions of native-born xth-generation brits who don't follow whatever tradition or value you'd specify. What you are doing is creating not just a double standard but a single state-sanctioned culture which is the beginning of genuine, honest to god fascism.
[QUOTE=thisispain;27867005]you don't know shit about british muslims and don't even pretend you do[/QUOTE] From what i've seen it's just like swedish muslims. What do you know about shitty immigration if you haven't experienced it yourself.
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27867008]Seeing as I've already said it once, I will tell you again. The telegraph is notoriously anti-Muslim. Just have a look at [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8126357/Muslims-clash-with-police-after-burning-poppy-in-anti-Armistice-Day-protest.html]some[/url] of the [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8150247/Muslim-pupils-learn-to-cut-off-hands-of-thieves.html]articles[/url] they [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html]write[/url]. If you had took the time to read the article properly, you would have realised that the paper was paraphrasing what Cameron was saying and drawing their own conclusions. The only mention of Muslims by Cameron was regarding the importance of distinguishing extremist Muslims from traditional Muslims; “We need to be clear: Islamic extremism and Islam are not the same thing”. This is perfectly understandable, considering that it was extremist Muslims who carried out the recent London Bombings.[/QUOTE] The title of the article is part of the article, how was I to know that the telegraph is biased against Muslims? I assumed a news thread with a moderator posting in it wouldn't have a misleading title or racist article in it But still, [quote]“But when equally unacceptable views or practices have come from someone who isn’t white, we’ve been too cautious, frankly too fearful, to stand up to them.”[/quote] sounds pretty racist to me [editline]5th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27867029]From what i've seen it's just like swedish muslims. What do you know about shitty immigration if you haven't experienced it yourself.[/QUOTE] You're generalizing again
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27867029]From what i've seen it's just like swedish muslims.[/QUOTE] ah afraid of the english bus system as well? don't worry, you won't be getting killed on the coach from london to pool valley any time soon [editline]4th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27867029]What do you know about shitty immigration if you haven't experienced it yourself.[/QUOTE] pah i was a lower class kid living in the south of england i've seen "english" people do far more horrible things than muslims have yet i'm not about to judge english people either so yeh, don't give me that experience bullshit
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27867034] You're generalizing again[/QUOTE] Whats the difference between Muslims in sweden and Muslims in the uk? They need to adapt to western values and society.
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27866996]This is targeted at Muslims since they got a poor view on human values[/QUOTE] The (vast majority of the) ones in britain don't. If they were happy living in their Sharia-law-ed home countries, they wouldn't have moved to Britain. The muslims "trying to bring about sharia in britain" are a small minority. The majority of british muslims aren't trying to do that. [QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27867029]From what i've seen it's just like swedish muslims. What do you know about shitty immigration if you haven't experienced it yourself.[/QUOTE] dogg I live in New Mexico. I live in the illegal immigration capital of the USA. You think you deal with immigrants living in a country with maybe 2 percent muslim population? Try one out of 15 people in your area being foreign-born. You don't know nothin about immigration.
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27867080]Whats the difference between Muslims in sweden and Muslims in the uk? They need to adapt to western values and society.[/QUOTE] That's not how integration works. Over many years of living together and enduring the conflicts between them, they merge somewhat and while there is still a noticeable difference, both sides have taken influence from the other.
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27867008]Seeing as I've already said it once, I will tell you again. The telegraph is notoriously anti-Muslim. Just have a look at [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8126357/Muslims-clash-with-police-after-burning-poppy-in-anti-Armistice-Day-protest.html]some[/url] of the [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/8150247/Muslim-pupils-learn-to-cut-off-hands-of-thieves.html]articles[/url] they [url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/5994047/Muslim-Europe-the-demographic-time-bomb-transforming-our-continent.html]write[/url]. If you had took the time to read the article properly, you would have realised that the paper was paraphrasing what Cameron was saying and drawing their own conclusions. The only mention of Muslims by Cameron was regarding the importance of distinguishing extremist Muslims from traditional Muslims; “We need to be clear: Islamic extremism and Islam are not the same thing”. This is perfectly understandable, considering that it was extremist Muslims who carried out the recent London Bombings.[/QUOTE] Okay fair enough.
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27867080] They need to adapt to western values and society.[/QUOTE] go on the streets of england and ask muslims what their favourite football team is
There is a sense of irony here. Meaning it's funny for when a country tells its immigrants to change their culture (in essence what Cameron wants to do) to the majority culture of Britain, when Britain itself spread across the planet much like a plague and assimilated its own beliefs and cultures to the existing cultures of those countries they colonized. I'm not saying Britain is full of jerks or racists, I'm just saying its kind of funny for something your ancestors once did (if you are from Britain of course) to a country, to happen to yours. Can't say I don't blame you guys though, it does seem to be a bit of a problem with large amounts of folks challenging the existing system.
[QUOTE=thisispain;27867118]go on the streets of england and ask muslims what their favourite football team is[/QUOTE] Part of Italians integrating into America and other English speaking countries was the influx of Italian food. Kebabs sure have become popular recently.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;27867149]Part of Italians integrating into America and other English speaking countries was the influx of Italian food. Kebabs sure have become popular recently.[/QUOTE] curry and kebab in england was delicious, i could totally see those fat bastards eating away at it then saying that the middle east is incompatible with the west apparently not incompatible with your stomach
Sounds racist to me but whatever.
[QUOTE=BANNED USER;27867130] Meaning it's funny for when a country tells its immigrants to change their culture (in essence what Cameron wants to do) to the majority culture of Britain, when Britain itself spread across the planet much like a plague and assimilated its own beliefs and cultures to the existing cultures of those countries they colonized.[/QUOTE] yeah well english didn't become a world language because it has fancy words
Are European Muslims different than American Muslims?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.