• Muslims must embrace our British values, David Cameron says
    340 replies, posted
Cameron is attempting to force a culture change for a large group of people, it will never work.
[QUOTE=David29;27869785]You're absolutely right. While we are at it, let's introduce Sharia Law. ...The point I'm making, by the way, is that you don't change an entire countries values just to meet the needs of a specific group of people. If people are coming to our country and refusing to adapt, then that is their problem. Also, stop with the Thatcher shite. I won't get into an argument over whether she was good or bad, but every party has their share of wankers. Labour had Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. The Lib Dems have Nick Clegg.[/QUOTE] He's trying to say that they shouldn't give 100% of their culture up. Especially if some of their traditions don't hurt anybody.
[QUOTE=Taggart;27873802]are you dumb? New York state is a State within the boundaries of the United States of America. Scotland is part of the three countries that make Great Britain, i.e. one of the three countries on the same landmass, and they're recognised as such. Brazil isn't part of "America" (because you're obviously saying that it's part of the USA) because Brazil is in South America, not North America, which is where the USA is.[/QUOTE] I actually meant America in general. See, it's exactly the same. Brazil is part of the same land mass as the USA. Are Brazil and the USA the same countries or parts of the same country? Exactly. Scotland doesn't have to be part of GB.
[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;27878200]I actually meant America in general. See, it's exactly the same. Brazil is part of the same land mass as the USA. Are Brazil and the USA the same countries or parts of the same country? Exactly. Scotland doesn't have to be part of GB.[/QUOTE] I don't know what you're trying to say
[QUOTE=Hezzy;27867599] You're right, that quote is racially motivated - it's positive discrimination. Cameron is referring to the attitude of multiculturalism. As well as the fear of appearing as a racist or as an intolerant person upon challenging such views - contrary to the spirit of multiculturalism. It's kind of like having a new guest in your house who you want to impress and they say something a bit "off". You don't really want to challenge them at first as you're being polite because you want to get on with them, but then they keep doing it and you finally have to say "This is my house, and that isn't acceptable". This is pretty much what's happening.[/quote] I don't know man, I hear white people banging on about how the minorities are ruining things [i]all the time[/i]. You're acting like people are squeamish around the idea of criticizing minorities and that just isn't the case. It seems in Europe right now that attacking Muslims is one of the most socially acceptable things you can do. [QUOTE=Hezzy;27867599]What's wrong with asking people coming to our country to respect freedom of speech and religion, democracy and equal rights regardless of race, sex or sexuality?[/quote] Well their culture is currently being bombed into oblivion by your culture so maybe they want to go somewhere safe to practice their culture
[QUOTE=Zeke129;27878363]Well their culture is currently being bombed into oblivion by your culture so maybe they want to go somewhere safe to practice their culture[/QUOTE] there's a degree of overlap of both cultures by each other that said, enforcing restrictions on other people's culture is the antithesis to freedom. I didn't know the conservative party offers courses in newspeak
[QUOTE=DainBramageStudios;27878469]there's a degree of overlap of both cultures by each other that said, enforcing restrictions on other people's culture is the antithesis to freedom. I didn't know the conservative party offers courses in newspeak[/QUOTE] As TH89 said earlier, "believe what I believe or else!" is the opposite of freedom
[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;27878200]I actually meant America in general. See, it's exactly the same. Brazil is part of the same land mass as the USA. Are Brazil and the USA the same countries or parts of the same country? Exactly. Scotland doesn't have to be part of GB.[/QUOTE] Yes it does. Great Britain includes Scotland. The definition of Great Britain, has Scotland as a part of it.
I find it interesting how the populace of Britain frequently criticizes the American government for being discriminatory (which, of course, at certain times is) while things like this occur. Going through Hezzy's and thisispain's argument, there's fine points on both sides, but what didn't seem to come up is that fundamentally - and I know very little about this chap as I'm not involved with British politics - Mr Cameron is going against his own moral set. In a country where you're to support freedom of speech, religion, etc, you cannot outwardly say "confine to my ideologies." In America, we've got a large amount of nutters running around spouting insane things at people and causing damage; but until they cross the line between speech and inciting violence, there's no issue. Brits have significantly fewer freedoms for the press (if I'm not mistaken, your government still reserves the right to censor whatever it chooses pre and post publication, does it not?) and speech. You deport/ban people from your country who disagree with your values, like the WBC, for instance. By "your", I'd like to clarify I'm saying your government's. Cameron's statements are inherently hypocritical, they are.
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;27876114]If I were in charge I would tell them to serve it anyways, people can't make other people eat what they want them to.[/QUOTE] They're not making you eat what they want you to. You're choosing to go to [i]their[/i] restaurant. You wanna eat something else you go somewhere else.
Also, arguing "Adapt to our culture or leave" is ridiculous. Especially if someone was born in the UK.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;27878532]Yes it does. Great Britain includes Scotland. The definition of Great Britain, has Scotland as a part of it.[/QUOTE] How does that mean we have to be part of Britain? We'll always be part of the island, but there's no reason for us to stay part of the country. Our values couldn't be much further from "British" values.
[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;27878610]Also, arguing "Adapt to our culture or leave" is ridiculous. Especially if someone was born in the UK.[/QUOTE] Mhmm. Lots of people seem to think that every Muslim is fresh off the boat but many were born in Britain and are just as British as they are.
[QUOTE=|FlapJack|;27878655]How does that mean we have to be part of Britain? We'll always be part of the island, but there's no reason for us to stay part of the country. Our values couldn't be much further from "British" values.[/QUOTE] Because you're part of Great Britain, as that's it's definition. Why should you stay part of the United Kingdom? Well think of all of the advantages you get from being a part of the union. Also question whether or not you could actually sustain yourselves.
[QUOTE=BrickInHead;27878542](if I'm not mistaken, your government still reserves the right to censor whatever it chooses pre and post publication, does it not?)[/quote] either they can't or they don't - see wikileaks cables, MP's expenses and so on [quote]You deport/ban people from your country who disagree with your values, like the WBC, for instance..[/QUOTE] yeah that's true. I'm a bit divided over that issue [editline]5th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=|FlapJack|;27878655]How does that mean we have to be part of Britain? We'll always be part of the island, but there's no reason for us to stay part of the country. Our values couldn't be much further from "British" values.[/QUOTE] if scotland or wales seceded they'd be among the poorest countries in europe, wales in particular
I am ok with this thread and my fellow posters.
[QUOTE=Ziron;27876447]i didn't say that. i was just ragging on him for being "save da animalz!" when he's talking about an aspect of a religion that's pretty damn important to the religion.[/QUOTE] So if the holiest ceremony of my religion involves kicking dogs in the face, I should be able to get away with it, right
[QUOTE=Habsburg;27866849]Again, what would those values and traditions be? Mandatory tea time at noon?[/QUOTE] British tradition is like US tradition, steal the others. [editline]5th February 2011[/editline] And forming orderly queues.
What a boring and terrible idea
What we should be doing is trying to integrate other cultures into our own, rather than trying to make people give up their cultures.
[QUOTE=dvondrake;27879381]I'm all for freedom to practice your own cultural beliefs, but sometimes it just gets pushed too far. Example: In the US, at least in the southwest portion of it, you find many things in Spanish because people who immigrate refuse to learn English. Why are [b]we[/b] adapting to [b]them[/b]? Should be the other way around.[/QUOTE] It's not like the US has an official language
[QUOTE=dvondrake;27879381]I'm all for freedom to practice your own cultural beliefs, but sometimes it just gets pushed too far. Example: In the US, at least in the southwest portion of it, you find many things in Spanish because people who immigrate refuse to learn English. Why are [b]we[/b] adapting to [b]them[/b]? Should be the other way around.[/QUOTE] Wow, you are offended by advertisements in Spanish in an area where there are people who speak both Spanish and English? Also the whole cultural melting pot goes both ways, not just people adapting to your way of life
[QUOTE=dvondrake;27879381]I'm all for freedom to practice your own cultural beliefs, but sometimes it just gets pushed too far. Example: In the US, at least in the southwest portion of it, you find many things in Spanish because people who immigrate refuse to learn English. Why are [b]we[/b] adapting to [b]them[/b]? Should be the other way around.[/QUOTE] They're also in English, why do you care
[QUOTE=James*;27879452]It's not like the US has an official language[/QUOTE] I'd say English is the US official language. However if the US wants people to speak English then they should educate the immigrants rather than expecting them to do it themselves.
Also there are lots of countries which have more than one 'native' language deal with it [editline]5th February 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=carcarcargo;27879559]I'd say English is the US official language. However if the US wants people to speak English then they should educate the immigrants rather than expecting them to do it themselves.[/QUOTE] there is no national official language and I think Spanish is actually an official language in some states
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;27879433]What we should be doing is trying to integrate other cultures into our own, rather than trying to make people give up their cultures.[/QUOTE] All we need to do to make that happen is just socialize with people of different races/cultures more often. If you get to know people who are different than you, your whole views of other people changes.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;27879433]What we should be doing is trying to integrate other cultures into our own, rather than trying to make people give up their cultures.[/QUOTE] People are too stupid these days to realize what it's going to take to move forward.
Would someone care to explain what British culture is? As we are nation formed from Celts, Romans, Scandinavians and French and that is just simplifying it.
So in short this thread is 6 pages of why Muslims should adapt to British society and 6 pages of why Muslims shouldn't adapt to British society. I stay on my side, adapt to western values and society or get the fuck out.
[QUOTE=Brage Nyman;27879802]So in short this thread is 6 pages of why Muslims should adapt to British society and 6 pages of why Muslims shouldn't adapt to British society. I stay on my side, adapt to western values and society or get the fuck out.[/QUOTE] False dilemma. Also a poor argument
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