ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
1,592 replies, posted
i've been watching a few videos of the Israeli navy sending messages to the ships and before all of this happened, they used far different phrasing.
before: "we order you" "we will use the necessary forces to enforce our blockade"
after: "we request you" "we invite you to redirect your humanitarian aid to a different port"
[QUOTE=Jenkem;22391978]Funny. The other ships didn't put up any resistance at all. Why would you think this one any different, if it's a peaceful aid ship?
There's a blockade for a reason. It searches ships for a reason. You're suggesting they let the thing go through without inspecting it first. Where do you think the Palestinians keep getting rockets?[/QUOTE]
They get rockets through the tunnels, not through humanitarian aid ships.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22391722]So are you really making the suggestion that people can not form opinions on legal questions unless they're a judge?[/QUOTE]
They can form un-informed opinions if they want.
[QUOTE=A.C.I.D;22392692]They get rockets through the tunnels, not through humanitarian aid ships.[/QUOTE]
What about the Iranian ships that were boarded by the IDF some time ago and quite a few tons of bombs, rockets, rifles, and a lot of other things were found on them?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22392536]Scorpio, the video you brought in the thread which was closed, was admitted to have been edited by the IDF, it says so in the description.
This is the full, unedited recording of the radio communications between the ships:
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2StbDL_Q[/media]
You can hear the "shut up, go back to aushwiz" part in 2:05.
And you can hear the "don't forget 9-11" part in 5:42.
I know you would just say that it was edited by the IDF and the fact that the claim it wasn't doesn't mean a thing, but I just wanted to bring you the video which at least the IDF claims is unedited, the other one was admitted to have been edited.[/QUOTE]
I want to know who said that "don't forget 9/11" part, that's got my pretty interested.
It's not known from which ship did it come from, but I don't think anyone on the other ships would say such things.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22392787]It's not known from which ship did it come from, but I don't think anyone on the other ships would say such things.[/QUOTE]
Oh, so now we're allowing assumptions into the argument.
Consider whatever we say on the radio communications assumptions only, OK?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22392857]Consider whatever we say on the radio communications assumptions only, OK?[/QUOTE]
Oh, so we can just completely disregard them as evidence? Cool.
[editline]03:26PM[/editline]
[url]http://aliabunimah.posterous.com/proof-emerges-idf-audio-of-radio-communicatio[/url]
Reposting because the other thread was locked.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22389509]This "illegal wall" has saved the lives of thousand Israeli lives by blocking off the suicide bomber's access to Israel.
Also, it's built on our land, we'll decide what is legal and what isn't.[/QUOTE]
You seem to enjoy pretending that the Palestinians and Hamas want Israelis dead for no good reason. Have you stopped for even a moment to consider what your people and your oh-so-perfect government have done to them?
The radio communications aren't valid unless you provide a map. :smug:
That was an edited video, the IDF claimed that too.
This is the real, unedited video, at least according to the IDF: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2StbDL_Q[/url]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22392882]Oh, so we can just completely disregard them as evidence? Cool.[/QUOTE]
What the hell are you talking about? It's an educated assumption based upon the evidence that we have at the given moment. Until the IDF decides to say which ships each of the communications came from you can only make EDUCATED assumptions.
It's just like the scientific method. His assumption will remain a theory until it is either completely proven or disproven, which at that point a new conclusion will be made based upon the new evidence.
St.-Sgt. S, What a hero, give that guy a medal!
I never said that the Hamas and Palestinians want Israelis dead for no reason, but you can't possibly deny the fact that Hamas do want Israelis to die, for their own reasons.
And what did the government do to them? Which I never claimed was perfect.
Half of your claims are words you put in my mouth that I never said.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22392956]That was an edited video, the IDF claimed that too.
This is the real, unedited video, at least according to the IDF: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2StbDL_Q[/url][/QUOTE]
So what, this the third "unedited" video?
It's not the "third" "unedited" video, it's just the "unedited" video.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22393037]So what, this the third "unedited" video?[/QUOTE]
You take what you are given with a grain of salt. Even you don't know exactly what happened, and quite frankly the only people that will are those who took place in the operation.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;22392975]What the hell are you talking about? It's an educated assumption based upon the evidence that we have at the given moment. Until the IDF decides to say which ships each of the communications came from you can only make EDUCATED assumptions.
It's just like the scientific method. His assumption will remain a theory until it is either completely proven or disproven, which at that point a new conclusion will be made based upon the new evidence.[/QUOTE]
Uh, no, it's not like the scientific method at all. The scientific method deals in discovering and studying reproducible phenomenon. You cannot reproduce the boarding of the flotilla ship in a lab.
This is more like forensics. And in such fashion, let's take a look at the situation.
A humanitarian aid ship was boarded by Israeli commandos and 9 people were killed. We know that many of them were shot in the back, one of them in the head four times. We have eye witness accounts of exactly such a thing happening. We also have eye witness accounts of Israel firing on the ship with live ammunition before boarding.
Israel cut off communications from the ship, destroyed the reporters recording equipment, and refuses to show any footage except in small clips. They refuse to show footage of the times at which the eye witnesses are saying Israel was firing on the ship and when Israel was brutalizing the passengers. They have also fabricated multiple recordings in order to make the people on the ship look worse, and have only released new clips when their previous ones were proven fraudulent.
Tell me, what do you think we can guess from the evidence available?
[editline]03:40PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22393051]It's not the "third" "unedited" video, it's just the "unedited" video.[/QUOTE]
[quote]In response to a radio transmission by the Israeli Navy warning the Gaza flotilla that they are approaching a naval blockade, flotilla passengers respond, "Shut up, go back to Auschwitz" and "We're helping Arabs go against the US, don't forget 9/11."
In the early hours of the May 31st 2010, IDF soldiers boarded the ships of the "Free Gaza" Flotilla, after the ships refused to redirect their course. Aboard the Mavi Marmara, the soldiers encountered serious violence when, in a pre-planned attack, the activists on board attempted to lynch the soldiers with knives, metal rods and stole two of their guns. As a result 7 soldiers were injured and 9 demonstrators were killed.[/quote]
Tell me, where in that does it say the video was edited?
Oh wait, it doesn't. It claims to be a conversation between the ship and the navy and says absolutely nothing about editing and only claimed such a thing after being found out.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22393159]Uh, no, it's not like the scientific method at all. The scientific method deals in discovering and studying reproducible phenomenon. You cannot reproduce the boarding of the flotilla ship in a lab.
This is more like forensics. And in such fashion, let's take a look at the situation.
A humanitarian aid ship was boarded by Israeli commandos and 9 people were killed. We know that many of them were shot in the back, one of them in the head four times. We have eye witness accounts of exactly such a thing happening. We also have eye witness accounts of Israel firing on the ship with live ammunition before boarding.
Israel cut off communications from the ship, destroyed the reporters recording equipment, and refuses to show any footage except in small clips. They refuse to show footage of the times at which the eye witnesses are saying Israel was firing on the ship and when Israel was brutalizing the passengers. They have also fabricated multiple recordings in order to make the people on the ship look worse, and have only released new clips when their previous ones were proven fraudulent.
Tell me, what do you think we can guess from the evidence available?[/QUOTE]
ಠ_ಠ I was referring to the scientific method as in having a theory and keeping it as a plausible answer until new credible information is brought to light.
I can tell you that the evidence given to you (and to I as well) is from a 3rd party. I can also tell you that in any event there was something going on from both sides when this event took place, and that neither side is completely innocent nor guilty.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22393159]
Tell me, where in that does it say the video was edited?
Oh wait, it doesn't. It claims to be a conversation between the ship and the navy and says absolutely nothing about editing and only claimed such a thing after being found out.[/QUOTE]
Well if you go to the youtube page of the video, where there's a description of it written by the IDF, you would find this written there: "Edit: This video had originally cited the Mavi Marmara ship as being the source of these remarks, however, due to an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the "Freedom Flotilla" responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified. For the full, unedited audio recording please go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2St..."
Here's the youtube page: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxY7Q7CvQPQ&feature=player_embedded[/url]
[QUOTE=A.C.I.D;22392723]They can form un-informed opinions if they want.[/QUOTE]
Just like how people can become the master of stupid opinions when they are.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;22393251]ಠ_ಠ I was referring to the scientific method as in having a theory and keeping it as a plausible answer until new credible information is brought to light.
I can tell you that the evidence given to you (and to I as well) is from a 3rd party. I can also tell you that in any event there was something going on from both sides when this event took place, and that neither side is completely innocent nor guilty.[/QUOTE]
Yes yes, alright, but as you said, we must make an educated assumption based on what we know. So, what would you assume based on all that we know right now?
[editline]03:47PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22393315]Well if you go to the youtube page of the video, where there's a description of it written by the IDF, you would find this written there: "Edit: This video had originally cited the Mavi Marmara ship as being the source of these remarks, however, due to an open channel, the specific ship or ships in the "Freedom Flotilla" responding to the Israeli Navy could not be identified. For the full, unedited audio recording please go to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2St..."
Here's the youtube page: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxY7Q7CvQPQ&feature=player_embedded[/url][/QUOTE]
Hey, you know what "Edit:" means?
It means that was added [I]after they uploaded the video.[/I] IE, after it was shown to be fraudulent.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22388922]Hahaha I love how butthurt terrorist sympathizers are rating me boxes.[/QUOTE]
I'm guessing I'm an anti-Semite as well? :downs:
I'm glad no one got hurt this time, but I would rather all the supplies get through instead of only some of them.
They didn't open fire until the most extreme point when they were being fired upon. I'm with the Israelis.
So? They still provided the original, unedited video, which is basically my whole point.
[QUOTE=ababs362;22393368]They didn't open fire until the most extreme point when they were being fired upon. I'm with the Israelis.[/QUOTE]
Based on what, exactly? A one minute clip released by the people who fabricated evidence and killed nine people?
Yes, quite convincing.
[QUOTE=Helldoran;22383275]Oh for the love of god can we have a Isreal/Gaza thread without a debate sparking up after the first 2 posts?[/QUOTE]
What else do you want to happen in a thread like this?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22393327]Yes yes, alright, but as you said, we must make an educated assumption based on what we know. So, what would you assume based on all that we know right now?
[/QUOTE]
I would assume that the one ship out of the 7 in the flotilla had malicious intent and caused the uproar in order to do exactly what is going on in the media. I make this assumption based upon the fact that they are the only ship out of the flotilla that did such a thing (the other ships were boarded without incident), that they had weapons prepared, and that there were mercenaries on board.
I also however make the assumption that Israel is not being 100% truthful on the situation based upon previous things that they have done and all the bullshit they themselves start.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22393385]Based on what, exactly? A one minute clip released by the people who fabricated evidence and killed nine people?
Yes, quite convincing.[/QUOTE]
I would like to point out the idea of them fabricating evidence is an assumption based upon a 3rd part source :P
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22393382]So? They still provided the original, unedited video, which is basically my whole point.[/QUOTE]
Really now? So if it's unedited, why is the video not included?
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