ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
1,592 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22393327]Yes yes, alright, but as you said, we must make an educated assumption based on what we know. So, what would you assume based on all that we know right now?[/quote]
You know that hearsay is never admissible in a court of law, and should not be used in forming your opinion, due to credibility of sources?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22393327]It means that was added [I]after they uploaded the video.[/I] IE, after it was shown to be fraudulent.[/QUOTE]
You dismiss everything and anything the Israeli news posts.
I Personally don't mind Israeli's, i prefer them to the Turkish but all in all, they, combined, are not saints.
They forgot the part about the giant venomous snakes.
Seriously? More pointless internet arguments? Can't we all be happy that this went as planned and no one got hurt?
[QUOTE=IStanI;22389526]Israel's formation overall is not legal, your in Palestine territory.[/QUOTE]
Israel was basically formed by Britain after WW2, and they pretty much owned the land, so no.
No country's formation was formally "legal" and no country needs formal legitimization for its formation.
If an ethnic group of people decide they want to have their own country - that is the legitimization, no one in the world can deprive them of their right to govern themselves. It is basically like depriving a person of his basic rights, for no reason.
[QUOTE=archangel125;22392915]You seem to enjoy pretending that the Palestinians and Hamas want Israelis dead for no good reason. Have you stopped for even a moment to consider what your people and your oh-so-perfect government have done to them?[/QUOTE]
You tell me. What has Israel done to Palestinians that wasn't a counter act? I can most certainly bring a logical justification for every action Israel has commited against the Palestinians.
And stop picking on BurnEmDown just because he is Israeli. I'm Greek, completely unbiased (Greece is the only European country that voted against the formation of Israel FYI), and I agree with him.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22393998]No country's formation was formally "legal" and no country needs formal legitimization for its formation.
If an ethnic group of people decide they want to have their own country - that is the legitimization, no one in the world can deprive them of their right to govern themselves. It is basically like depriving a person of his basic rights, for no reason.[/QUOTE]
Of course a few countries deserve criticism for how they're formed and yeah some people should be deprived of the right to govern themselves... when they're infringing on the basic rights of others. The Palestinian Arabs were settled on 99% of that land, the Israels now control pretty much all of it, none of which was given by consent. If you're suggesting that the right to a self-governing country allows a people to evict others from their land then you don't understand how rights works.
99% of the land? I don't think so.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394271]You tell me. What has Israel done to Palestinians that wasn't a counter act? I can most certainly bring a logical justification for every action Israel has commited against the Palestinians.
And stop picking on BurnEmDown just because he is Israeli. I'm Greek, completely unbiased (Greece is the only European country that voted against the formation of Israel FYI), and I agree with him.[/QUOTE]
By your logic, Hamas has a logical justification for every action Israel has committed against the Palestinians.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22394491]99% of the land? I don't think so.[/QUOTE]
I'm gonna' say 1-12% of the land, sources vary.
However they were still given about half of Palestine.
[QUOTE=Billiam;22394457]Of course a few countries deserve criticism for how they're formed and yeah some people should be deprived of the right to govern themselves... when they're infringing on the basic rights of others. The Palestinian Arabs were settled on 99% of that land, the Israels now control pretty much all of it, none of which was given by consent. If you're suggesting that the right to a self-governing country allows a people to evict others from their land then you don't understand how rights works.[/QUOTE]
None of the land was given by consent, because the Palestinians never owned that land officially.
Please read at least the beginning of this [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel"]Wikipedia article.[/URL]
In November 1947, the United Nations voted in favor of the partition of Palestine, proposing the creation of a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem. Partition was accepted by Zionist leaders but rejected by Arab leaders, leading to civil war.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394271]You tell me. What has Israel done to Palestinians that wasn't a counter act? I can most certainly bring a logical justification for every action Israel has commited against the Palestinians.[/QUOTE]
They were given control of half of Palestine where in reality they owned about 10% of it, of course the Palestinians are gonna' be pissed.
However counter-action when performed against people who really didn't do anything is never justified. While Israel is trying to remove Hamas they're actually killing many civilians in the process, this tactic only empowers terrorist groups. Say what you want about Israel, they're handling terrorism in a very disgusting manner and that's a fact.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394271]And stop picking on BurnEmDown just because he is Israeli. I'm Greek, completely unbiased (Greece is the only European country that voted against the formation of Israel FYI), and I agree with him.[/QUOTE]
Okay?
That doesn't change the fact that he was born in a place that is extremely inclined towards the Israelis and that the bias is promoted.
[QUOTE=Billiam;22394579]I'm gonna' say 1-12% of the land, sources vary.
However they were still given about half of Palestine.[/QUOTE]
Blame the UN then.
The Zionists accepted all offers of governing their own nation, no matter how small in size they were, except one which the Arabs also rejected, but since the Arabs rejected all suggestions that the Jews should have their own state, the Jews' right to create a state of their own was rejected.
But with inflow of Jews from Europe after WWII and the holocaust, it was getting clearer that the Jews must have their own country, and the UN offered the Jews to declare their own state, even if the Arabs refused.
The Jews were always happy with the suggestions they received, and when they finally got the option to really declare a state, they did it. The fact that the Arabs were so stubborn about not giving the Jews a state, is their own problem.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394583]None of the land was given by consent, because the Palestinians never owned that land officially.
Please read at least the beginning of this [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel"]Wikipedia article.[/URL]
In November 1947, the United Nations voted in favor of the partition of Palestine, proposing the creation of a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem. Partition was accepted by Zionist leaders but rejected by Arab leaders, leading to civil war.[/QUOTE]
Well if you worked your ass off assisting the British in defeating the Ottoman, in exchange for independence. Then later realize you won't be gaining independence due to British duplicity, then also realize you'll have to be kicked out of the land, then denied the right to return. Yes.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22388715]
Just like the boardings of the other 5 ships who didn't have violent terrorist supporters, everything went peacefully and no one was hurt.[/QUOTE]
Violent terrorist supporters? Wow you're ignorant.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394583]None of the land was given by consent, because the Palestinians never owned that land officially.
Please read at least the beginning of this [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel"]Wikipedia article.[/URL][/QUOTE]
Oh yeah, because a bunch of old men who live nowhere near the area have the right to dictate who owns which slices of land. Just because Palestinian Arabs weren't recognized that doesn't mean they didn't inhabit the land for years.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394583]In November 1947, the United Nations voted in favor of the partition of Palestine, proposing the creation of a Jewish state, an Arab state, and a UN-administered Jerusalem. Partition was accepted by Zionist leaders but rejected by Arab leaders, leading to civil war.[/QUOTE]
What was the point of posting this? It proves that the Arabs had no say in the manner.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22394679]Blame the UN then.
The Zionists accepted all offers of governing their own nation, no matter how small in size they were, except one which the Arabs also rejected, but since the Arabs rejected all suggestions that the Jews should have their own state, the Jews' right to create a state of their own was rejected.
But with inflow of Jews from Europe after WWII and the holocaust, it was getting clearer that the Jews must have their own country, and the UN offered the Jews to declare their own state, even if the Arabs refused.
The Jews were always happy with the suggestions they received, and when they finally got the option to really declare a state, they did it. The fact that the Arabs were so stubborn about not giving the Jews a state, is their own problem.[/QUOTE]
No.
You see, the Jews had nothing to lose when being given a state, the Arabs on the other hand, had to divide their own state regardless of assisting the British against the Ottomans as part of the deal.
If I was a Jew I would of course be happy, because I stress again, I would have nothing to lose, only everything to gain.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22394679]Blame the UN then.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I do.
But it's pretty weird to deny that the Zionist played a massive role in this mess.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22394702]Well if you worked your ass off assisting the British in defeating the Ottoman, in exchange for independence. Then later realize you won't be gaining independence due to British duplicity, then also realize you'll have to be kicked out of the land, then denied the right to return. Yes.[/QUOTE]
Won't be gaining independence? They were given the offer to declare their own state, they refused.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22394765]Won't be gaining independence? They were given the offer to declare their own state, they refused.[/QUOTE]
Except it'd have to be divided.
I don't blame the Palestinians one bit.
Why should they have to pay for the actions of Hitler and the holocaust?
[QUOTE=Billiam;22394621]They were given control of half of Palestine where in reality they owned about 10% of it, of course the Palestinians are gonna' be pissed.
However counter-action when performed against people who really didn't do anything is never justified. While Israel is trying to remove Hamas they're actually killing many civilians in the process, this tactic only empowers terrorist groups. Say what you want about Israel, they're handling terrorism in a very disgusting manner and that's a fact.
Okay?
That doesn't change the fact that he was born in a place that is extremely inclined towards the Israelis and that the bias is promoted.[/QUOTE]
1. They were GIVEN control. Nothing to blame Israel for what it was GIVEN by OTHERS (where OTHERS are the UN which you all so maniacally support). And, 10%? What? Stop making up things.
2. What is Palestine? There wasn't and there isn't such thing officially. That land used to belong to GB. Whatever, you didn't read the Wikipedia article.
3. OK. Then you tell me what is Israel supposed to do?
Take this for example: Hamas sends rockets from a school towards civilians in Israel. Israel can't just bombard the area, so according to wartime regulations, prior to bombing they drop leaflets and inform the people living there that this area is going to be bombarded. Now, you have to understand that these Hamas people are actually brothers, sons and fathers of the people living there aka the Palestinians. Obviously, the Palestinians are going to support the Hamas and won't leave the areas that are about to bombarded. And then you watch them crying on your TV. Have you ever seen footages of Israeli victims on TV? Didn't think so.
4. I posted that so you know I'm not biased and I fully support him, so it's not a matter of being Israeli or not.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22394702]Well if you worked your ass off assisting the British in defeating the Ottoman, in exchange for independence. Then later realize you won't be gaining independence due to British duplicity, then also realize you'll have to be kicked out of the land, then denied the right to return. Yes.[/QUOTE]
Blame the UN. Don't blame Israel. I don't see what Israel has to do with it all.
[QUOTE=Billiam;22394721]Oh yeah, because a bunch of old men who live nowhere near the area have the right to dictate who owns which slices of land. Just because Palestinian Arabs weren't recognized that doesn't mean they didn't inhabit the land for years.
What was the point of posting this? It proves that the Arabs had no say in the manner.[/QUOTE]
So you refute the opinion of UN. Great, so going back to the flotilla subject the UNCLOS can be completely ignored.
It proves that Israel is not to be blamed for anything. If you have arguments against the creation of Israel, create an anti-UN thread.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22388922]Hahaha I love how butthurt terrorist sympathizers are rating me boxes.[/QUOTE]
when losing a debate, resort to ad hominem/baseless claims/false dilemma
differing opinion about Israel's actions =/= terrorist sympathizer
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394913]1. They were GIVEN control. Nothing to blame Israel for what it was GIVEN by OTHERS (where OTHERS are the UN which you all so maniacally support). And, 10%? What? Stop making up things.[/QUOTE]
Where did I state I maniacally support the UN? They make good decisions and bad decisions.
Also yeah, 1-12%
[url]http://www.palestineremembered.com/Acre/Maps/Story571.html[/url]
I know it's a biased source, but they offer documentation so whatever.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394913]2. What is Palestine? There wasn't and there isn't such thing officially. That land used to belong to GB. Whatever, you didn't read the Wikipedia article.[/QUOTE]
Yes, I didn't read one of the most posted Wiki articles ever on this forum.
Palestine wasn't recognized officially, but that has fuck-all to do with it. The fact is the Arabs inhabited most of the land and had been on that land for years without a problem, then all of a sudden a single Partition plan took loads of their land.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394913]3. OK. Then you tell me what is Israel supposed to do?[/QUOTE]
Quit that bullshit.
A war on terror can be waged while minimizing civilians casualties, lessening closures and actually working towards two independent states was actually one of Israel's more successful tactics. Hamas was most powerful during the 2000's which was when Israel/Palestine negotiations went down the shitter. Bombing schools and hospitals will not buy you love from the Palestinian populous, which is exactly what they need if they want the attacks to stop.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394913]4. I posted that so you know I'm not biased and I fully support him, so it's not a matter of being Israeli or not.[/QUOTE]
Being Israeli is a gigantic factor of whether or not you're anti-Israel or not.
[QUOTE=Aidos;22394913]So you refute the opinion of UN. Great, so going back to the flotilla subject the UNCLOS can be completely ignored.
It proves that Israel is not to blamed for anything. If you have arguments against the creation of Israel, create an anti-UN thread.[/QUOTE]
What? The UN makes one bad decisions so all of its decisions lose it's credibility?
There's a difference between establishing a country on another group's land and establishing guidelines for the sea.
By the way, there are other reasons to be anti-Israel excluding its creation.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22388922]Hahaha I love how butthurt terrorist sympathizers are rating me boxes.[/QUOTE]
Do you ever wonder why the majority of the world hates Israelis?
[QUOTE=Cuel;22388953]you deserve even more[/QUOTE]
You know, technically, if these Aid ships are coming through with the knowledge that the Israeli government will be afraid of them, and stop them and all that, and they CONTINUE to do it, that's terrorism.
[editline]11:18AM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22395468]Do you ever wonder why the majority of the world hates Israelis?[/QUOTE]
Isn't the situation here that they're scared of all the countries around them because they would want nothing but to have them dead...if you were them you'd be just as cautious.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22390082]There are not enough facepalms in the world. You have attained a level of naivety and willful ignorance that other mere mortals only [I]dream[/I] of.
If I had the chance to bring one of three things, a giant man eating octopus, a rabid wolverine, and you, onto a desert island, I would choose the man eating octopus. It would at least be easier to have a conversation with than you.[/QUOTE]
plus it's a goddamn man eating octopus
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22393998]No country's formation was formally "legal" and no country needs formal legitimization for its formation.[/quote]
They need recognition from the other countries. That's exactly why places like Sealand aren't officially countries.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22393998]It is basically like depriving a person of his basic rights, for no reason.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, like his right to shelter or food or a decent life. Kind of like what the Israelis are doing to the Palestinians.
IMO, blockades never do anything good, and only add to the problem.
If Gaza ever wants to develop and become a strong nation that blockade needs to be broken and Hamas needs to be kicked out of there.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22390082]There are not enough facepalms in the world. You have attained a level of naivety and willful ignorance that other mere mortals only [I]dream[/I] of.
If I had the chance to bring one of three things, a giant man eating octopus, a rabid wolverine, and you, onto a desert island, I would choose the man eating octopus. It would at least be easier to have a conversation with than you.[/QUOTE]
God, explain why he's wrong so you can get more people agreeing with you, and get more people informed, god damn.
[editline]11:36AM[/editline]
Isn't the idea here that a few Palestinians do bad things, so they overreact and evict people, and take away aid from their country and all that?
Isn't that sorta what happened in the holocaust
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