• ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
    1,592 replies, posted
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22468826]I didn't, and correct me if I'm wrong, but this only applies to the goods on the merchant ship, not the ship itself. As in, a ship can be boarded even if no contraband list has been published, but goods on the ship can't be taken unless they're under the contraband list that has been published. [editline]10:03PM[/editline] They did. And it's buildings which were "suspected" to have Hamas inside, they were buildings which rockets were fired from.[/QUOTE] it's been shown to you before that those rockets are so portable that they can be taken onto a rooftop and fired within 10 minutes.
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;22468867]they should be, but they aren't. your second sentence makes little sense to me.[/QUOTE] What didn't you understand about it? [QUOTE=Keeshond v2;22468899]it's been shown to you before that those rockets are so portable that they can be taken onto a rooftop and fired within 10 minutes.[/QUOTE] The IDF responded very quickly as well. I don't know the exact amount of time it took for the IDF to bomb its targets, but it was in the matter of a few minutes as well.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;22468882]I was arguing that the point was that HAMAS was the minority, I proved very easily that it wasn't.[/QUOTE] I believe it's wrong to punish the citizens for the crimes of the government, elected or not.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22468710]I'm not saying that it's legal and citing them as a reason. I'm saying that is legal as long as they don't say it's illegal. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22467349]Let me try to explain in words you can understand: Blockade - LEGAL. Why? UN security council didn't declare it illegal. Boarding - LEGAL. Why? San Remo manual of maritime law allows armies to board ships trying to break a blockade (and it doesn't even specify whether the blockade is legal or not as far as I know).[/QUOTE] Really now?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22468343][url]http://www.johnstonsarchive.net/terrorism/terrisraelsum.html[/url] 2000 - 2010 total deaths: 1306. Here's another one though it's only regarding suicide bombings: [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Palestinian_suicide_attacks[/url] Total deaths 2000 - 2008: 627 No, I am not using numbers to back up my opinion, what matters to me is the cause of the deaths. I was using the number because some people won't be convinced and think that whoever loses more people is the right side, so why not just show them that not as few Israelis died as they think?[/QUOTE] Innocent deaths from both sides are wrong. If you think for a second that being critical of Israel means being pro-suicide bombings, you're dead wrong. Israel suffered casualties. But its only a fraction of what Palestinians suffered and are still suffering today. To prop up the deaths of dead Israelis and use it to justify carpet bombings of entire Gazan populations or to justify a crippling inhumane Blockade is abhorrent and criminal. What you're doing is creating even more resentment. The reality on the ground is much, much worse today in Gaza than it was during 2nd Intifadah, yet Palestinians are expected to bend over and stretch their arseholes. Do you not see a clear link between Palestinian suffering and Israel's imperialistic policies? To turn a blind eye to the root of the conflict and instead focus on the results of it is being extremely naive and selective.
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22468950]:words:.[/QUOTE] He's BurnEmDown, he doesn't think, and for some reason, i think a Gazan killed someone he knew or something, it would explain a lot.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22468902]What didn't you understand about it? The IDF responded very quickly as well. I don't know the exact amount of time it took for the IDF to bomb its targets, but it was in the matter of a few minutes as well.[/QUOTE] It just made little sense to me, it was in-coherent. perhaps you should re-write it differently. They're still civilian buildings. Even if they have rockets fired from their rooftops, the civilians may still be inside. Drop troops in to deal with it, and mabey less civilians would be killed. [editline]07:12PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22468950]Innocent deaths from both sides are wrong. If you think for a second that being critical of Israel means being pro-suicide bombings, you're dead wrong. Israel suffered casualties. But its only a fraction of what Palestinians suffered and are still suffering today. To prop up the deaths of dead Israelis and use it to justify carpet bombings of entire Gazan populations or to justify a crippling inhumane Blockade is abhorrent and criminal. What you're doing is creating even more resentment. The reality on the ground is much, much worse today in Gaza than it was during 2nd Intifadah, yet Palestinians are expected to bend over and stretch their arseholes. Do you not see a clear link between Palestinian suffering and Israel's imperialistic policies? To turn a blind eye to the root of the conflict and instead focus on the results of it is being extremely naive and selective.[/QUOTE] This pretty much. I'm going to bed for real now. it's 4:42am here.
[QUOTE=Intoxicated Spy;22469025]He's BurnEmDown, he doesn't think, and for some reason, i think a Gazan killed someone he knew or something, it would explain a lot.[/QUOTE] You are a skilled debater, you may leave the field of battle knowing you are victorious and tactful!
[QUOTE=CjienX;22468945]Really now?[/QUOTE] Yes, note that in both cases I said that as long as the UN doesn't declare it illegal, it is still legal. In the Helsinki Principles on the Law of maritime neutrality: [url]http://www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pdf[/url] A neutral ship can be boarded and captured if it is believed to be carrying contraband and its goal is breaching the blockade. Contraband is "goods ultimately destined to the enemy of a belligerent which are designed for the use of war fighting and other goods useful for the war effort of the enemy."
[QUOTE=Keeshond v2;22469026]It just made little sense to me, it was in-coherent. perhaps you should re-write it differently. They're still civilian buildings. Even if they have rockets fired from their rooftops, the civilians may still be inside. Drop troops in to deal with it, and mabey less civilians would be killed.[/QUOTE] As you saw with the Flotilla, dropping in troops into a hostile area without support ends very badly.
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22468950]Innocent deaths from both sides are wrong. If you think for a second that being critical of Israel means being pro-suicide bombings, you're dead wrong. Israel suffered casualties. But its only a fraction of what Palestinians suffered and are still suffering today. To prop up the deaths of dead Israelis and use it to justify carpet bombings of entire Gazan populations or to justify a crippling inhumane Blockade is abhorrent and criminal. What you're doing is creating even more resentment. The reality on the ground is much, much worse today in Gaza than it was during 2nd Intifadah, yet Palestinians are expected to bend over and stretch their arseholes. Do you not see a clear link between Palestinian suffering and Israel's imperialistic policies? To turn a blind eye to the root of the conflict and instead focus on the results of it is being extremely naive and selective.[/QUOTE] Again, numbers don't speak for themselves. It's a question of "who started it". If 10 people try to kill me and the last option I have is killing them all, I am not at fault for killing more than would have died had I not killed them.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;22469100]You are a skilled debater, you may leave the field of battle knowing you are victorious and tactful![/QUOTE] I know :D
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22469137]Yes, note that in both cases I said that as long as the UN doesn't declare it illegal, it is still legal. In the Helsinki Principles on the Law of maritime neutrality: [url]http://www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pdf[/url] A neutral ship can be boarded and captured if it is believed to be carrying contraband and its goal is breaching the blockade. Contraband is "goods ultimately destined to the enemy of a belligerent which are designed for the use of war fighting and other goods useful for the war effort of the enemy."[/QUOTE] You say that if they don't declare it illegal then it is legal. Therefore you are citing them as a reason as to why it is legal, but you also claim that their word means shit which means that you have nothing but words from your ass to prove that it's legal.
Yes, their word means shit, as in, even if they would declare it illegal, Israel still wouldn't have to do anything about it (though then anything like boarding neutral ships would be considered an act of war). In any case, as long as the UN doesn't consider it illegal, neither should anyone on the planet.
The UNs word means shit, but we should listen to them?
We should, all nations should, but they don't HAVE to.
Well, I'm gonna just jump on the wagon now and assume that your IQ is equal to the amount of proof you have that they're in the right and stop wasting my time
burnemdown would you say that the people of gaza has their freedom
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22469176]Again, numbers don't speak for themselves. It's a question of "who started it". If 10 people try to kill me and the last option I have is killing them all, I am not at fault for killing more than would have died had I not killed them.[/QUOTE] Really now, the Israel-Palestine conflict is just a question of "who started it" ? Dude, you need to think before posting.
[QUOTE=CjienX;22469394]The UNs word means shit, but we should listen to them?[/QUOTE] Explain. To me United Nations sounds like a terrific idea if they can make it work.
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22470603]Really now, the Israel-Palestine conflict is just a question of "who started it" ? Dude, you need to think before posting.[/QUOTE] I didn't say the whole conflict is a question of "who started it". But in viewing a specific event, "who started it" is usually the first thing to check to determine who is right and who is wrong. There are other things to check, for example the responses and where they justified. For example in the example I wrote about killing 10 people, if it is determined that I didn't have to kill them and I could just run away easily, it makes me guilty of their deaths, but not as much guilty as a person who killed 10 people for no reason. [editline]11:30PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Re-y-tard;22470862]Explain. To me United Nations sounds like a terrific idea if they can make it work.[/QUOTE] He was speaking sarcastically.
Talking to BurnEmDown is like debating a paranoid shizophrenic brick wall. He'll have multiple contradictory points, absolutely no empathy for innocent people, and eventually will just fall down until he's rebuilt the next day.
[QUOTE=Cuel;22470223]burnemdown would you say that the people of gaza has their freedom[/QUOTE] No, but I would say that it is justify since if they had, Israeli civilians wouldn't have their security (and I'm not saying the people of Gaza are all a risk, only the Hamas and their supporters). I would definitely like for the people there to have more freedom, and want Israel to let more food and supplies through, because not only will this maybe do good for the people there, it would reduce criticism against Israel.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22471063]No, but I would say that it is justify since if they had, Israeli civilians wouldn't have their security (and I'm not saying the people of Gaza are all a risk, only the Hamas and their supporters). I would definitely like for the people there to have more freedom, and want Israel to let more food and supplies through, because not only will this maybe do good for the people there, it would reduce criticism against Israel.[/QUOTE] you heard it people their forced imprisonment is most definitely justify because if they weren't forced into a ghetto burnemdown couldnt sleep at night :( [editline]08:36PM[/editline] i say we lock all problem neighborhoods into ghettos too so i can wlak the streets at night and if they get out we shoot them so they cant mug honest rich folk i know lets imprison somalia so they cant pirate our ships then lets imprison russia because hey them russians might start something [editline]08:37PM[/editline] hell why do we even let poor people out of their houses at night? i mean poor people commit more crime than rich people they should have less rights i say we impose a curfew on poor people! [editline]08:37PM[/editline] I mean im not predjudice i jsut think poor people are a risk to my security and should be treated like cattle so i can sleep better [editline]08:40PM[/editline] HEY I KNOW LETS LOCK CHILDREN IN A GHETTO, REFUSE TO GIVE THAT GHETTO ADEQUATE SUPPLIES, REFUSE TO POLICE THAT GHETTO, AND THEN WATCH WHEN THE CHILDREN WE FORCE INTO IT DIE OF DYSENTERY BECAUSE WE DESTROYED THEIR INFRASTRUCTURE SO THEY CAN'T GET FRESH WATER BECAUSE THEY KILL LESS PEOPLE THAN CAR ACCIDENTS YEAR BY YEAR. AND THEN LET'S JUSTIFY IT ON THE INTERNET AND BE A BUNCH OF HEARTLESS MONSTERS WHOM WOULD HAVE BEEN RIGHT AT HOME IN NAZI GERMANY. [B]I think that's a great idea, huh people?[/B]
I suppose if someone murdered someone else putting him in prison is just too inhumane for you, nobody should be in prison, that's inhumane, even if he murdered someone else.
Holy Crap! An Actual Story! [QUOTE] Ed Barnes - FOXNews.com - June 08, 2010 [B]Reuters Admits Cropping Photos of Ship Clash, Denies Political Motive[/B] [IMG]http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Cropped%20Image-Reuters%201_doomsday_604x341.JPG[/IMG] The British-based Reuters news agency has been stung for the second time by charges that it edited politically sensitive photos in a way that casts Israel in a bad light. But this time Reuters claims it wasn’t at fault. [IMG]http://tags.bluekai.com/site/668[/IMG] The British-based Reuters news agency has been stung for the second time by charges that it edited politically sensitive photos in a way that casts Israel in a bad light. But this time Reuters claims it wasn’t at fault. The news agency reacted to questions raised by an American blogger who showed that Reuters' photo service edited out knives and blood traces from pictures taken aboard the activist ship Mavi Marmara during a clash with Israeli commandos last week. Nine people were killed and scores were injured in the clash. The pictures of the fight were released by IHH, the Turkish-based group that sponsored the six-ship fleet that tried to break Israel's blockade of Gaza. In one photo, an Israeli commando is shown lying on the deck of the ship, surrounded by activists. The uncut photo released by IHH shows the hand of an unidentified activist holding a knife. But in the Reuters photo, the hand is visible but the knife has been edited out. The blog “Little Green Footballs” challenged Reuters' editing of the photo. “That’s a very interesting way to crop the photo. Most people would consider that knife an important part of the context. There was a huge controversy over whether the activists were armed. Cropping out a knife, in a picture showing a soldier who’s apparently been stabbed, seems like a very odd editorial decision. Unless someone was trying to hide it,” the blog stated. In a second photo the unedited print issued by IHH showed blood along the ship's railing and a hand holding a knife as an Israeli soldier lies on the deck. Both the blood and the knife were missing in the photo that Reuters released. Reuters on Tuesday denied it intended to alter the political meanings of the photographs. “The images in question were made available in Istanbul, and following normal editorial practice were prepared for dissemination which included cropping at the edges," the news agency said in a statement. "When we realized that a dagger was inadvertently cropped from the images, Reuters immediately moved the original set as well." Reuters has yet to respond to charges about the second photo. This is the second time Reuters has been accused of manipulating photos. In 2006 a Reuters photographer, Adnan Hajj, doctored several photos of the destruction caused by Israel's bombing of Beirut. In one he added smoke to a panoramic picture of South Beirut to make the damage look more severe than it was. In a second photo, he showed a woman whose home had supposedly been destroyed in the same raid, but an investigation revealed that the woman's house had been destroyed prior to the Israeli strike. Reuters later removed all of Hajj's more than 900 photos from distribution and severed its relationship with him. A photo editor also was fired. What happened on the Mavi Marmara and who was responsible for the killing and bloodshed on the ship is still a matter of debate. Activists charge that Israeli commandos fired first and provoked the skirmish. Israeli commandos say they were compelled to use deadly force after they were attacked by people on board the ship. [/QUOTE] [URL=http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08/reuters-fake-photos-ihh-gaza-blockade-commandos/]Source[/URL]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22471324]I suppose if someone murdered someone else putting him in prison is just too inhumane for you, nobody should be in prison, that's inhumane, even if he murdered someone else.[/QUOTE] That's not what you're fucking saying, don't you fucking dare try to pass it off as what you're doing. What you're doing is imprisoning a town for the crimes of one person. [editline]08:49PM[/editline] [QUOTE=ExplodingGuy;22471339]Holy Crap! An Actual Story! [URL=http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/08/reuters-fake-photos-ihh-gaza-blockade-commandos/]Source[/URL][/QUOTE] Fox News.
It's not one person, it's the crime of the government they elected. And we don't do it to punish, we do it so we can be secure, if we remove the blockade, Iran will be able to send the Hamas tons of rockets. And not those petty Qassam rockets that don't do shit, I'm talking about real rockets, missiles, which will be able to reach up to Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem, and bomb the shit out of everything.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22467768]Let me remind you that the UN is an advice-recommendation giving body, not an enforcing body. It can't enforce anything and even if it declares something illegal, it doesn't have to stop. Israel is in an on-going conflict against the Hamas, and as long as the Hamas will fire rockets into its borders, which happens daily, it is considered an armed conflict.[/QUOTE] ship was not Palestinian mah boi [editline]09:55PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22471438]It's not one person, it's the crime of the government they elected. And we don't do it to punish, we do it so we can be secure, if we remove the blockade, Iran will be able to send the Hamas tons of rockets. And not those petty Qassam rockets that don't do shit, I'm talking about real rockets, missiles, which will be able to reach up to Tel-Aviv or Jerusalem, and bomb the shit out of everything.[/QUOTE] lol, that is complete fucking nonsense and you know it. [editline]09:57PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22467968]Numbers don't mean anything. Israel was attacked for 9 years before attacking back, we asked the world to do something, but the world didn't do a thing. Then, on the first day we attacked, all the world turned against us. And during those 9 years about a 1000 civilians died as well.[/QUOTE] Yeah, you know, big wall, oppression you know, I would have thought you Jews, who went through this shit in Poland, would understand why Palestine is attacking Israel.
So what? Even if it's neutral, if it's trying or going to try to breach the blockade Israel can board it. And why do you have so many alts?
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.