ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
1,592 replies, posted
This was just forwarded to me, no source. I call bullshit, but it's related. Haven't watched the video yet.
[quote]I figured the Israelis knew what was on the ships before they boarded it, and I doubt you’ll see any mention of this on the evening news.
*
HEAVY WEAPONS FOUND IN THE CARGO OF THE
M/S. MAVI MARMARA FLOTILLA VESSEL.
This video <http://www.flix.co.il/tapuz/showVideo.asp?m=3423928>
shows that during the unloading of the Marmara boat in the port of
Ashdod, behind the bags of flour were boxes of heavy weapons and
ammunition: mortars, artillery shells, bazookas, without counting a trunk
where more than one million euros was found intended for Hamas. This video
should be widely distributed as evidence of why the IDF Naval commandos were
dispatched to intercept the six vessels including the M/S Mavi Marmara. One
wonders what is aboard the Irish vessel, the M/S Rachel Corrie, that Israel
will intercept sometime today when it approaches the Naval blockade line off
the coast of Gaza. Clearly the Turkish AKP Islamist government is complicit
in permitting this military cargo to be loaded on the 'peaceful' Free Gaza
Flotilla. Please distribute this video widely. If you had any doubt about
what was on the flotilla, here is the video. The French explains that the
arms on display were hidden behind sacks of grain.
Have patience; there’s a commercial in the beginning.
In addition to hiding weapons meant to kill Israel civilians, the
"humanitarian aid" workers viciously attacked Israeli soldiers. Below, a
first hand account from Amir, an Israeli soldier who was there.
This is Amir writing you after reading what you sent to my father, Eitan. As
you know, it was my unit and my friends who were on the ship. My commander
was injured badly as a result of the "pacifists" violence. I want to tell
you how he was injured so you could tell the story. it shows just how
horrible and inhuman were the activists. My commander was the first soldier
that rappelled down from the helicopter to the ship. When he touched ground,
he got hit in the head with a pole and stabbed in the stomach with a knife.
When he drew out his secondary weapon-a handgun (his primary weapon was a
regular paintball gun: "Tippman 98 custom") he was shot in the leg. He
managed to fire a single shot before he was tossed from the balcony by 4
Arab activists, to the lower deck (a 12 feet fall). He was then dragged by
other activists to a room in the lower deck were he was stripped down by 2
activists. They took off his vest, helmet and shirt, leaving him with only
his pants and shoes on. When they finished they took a knife and expanded
the wound he already had in his stomach. They cut his ab muscles
horizontally and by hand spilled his guts out. When they finished they
raised him up and walked him on the deck outside. He was conscious the whole
time. If you are asking yourself why they did all that, here comes the
reason. They wanted to show the soldiers their commander's body so they will
be demoralized and scared. Luckily, when they walked him on the deck a
soldier saw him and managed to shoot the activist that was walking him down
the outside corridor. He shot him with a special non-lethal bullet that
didn't kill him. My commander managed to jump from the deck to the water and
swim to an army rescue boat (his guts still out of his body, and now in
salty sea water). That was how he was saved. The activists that did this to
him are alive, now in Turkey, and treated as heroes.
I'm sorry if I described this with too many details, but I thought it was
necessary for the credibility. Please tell this story to anyone who will
listen. I think that these days you are one of Israel's best spokesman.
------ End Forwarded Message
*
*
This email message from the law firm of McCarter & English, LLP is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender by reply email and destroy all copies of the original message.[/quote]
[QUOTE=CjienX;22488399]This was just forwarded to me, no source. I call bullshit, but it's related. Haven't watched the video yet.[/QUOTE]
Its a hoax.
[url]http://the-raw-deal.com/?p=2568[/url]
So I've been watching parts of "Defamation", a documentary about anti-Semitism, and it's worrying. Still, it helps to understand why the Israeli reaction to the flotilla incident was as it were, I had no idea this kind of indoctrination was going on.
If anyone is interested in watching it, it is on Youtube, here's a link for the first part, you can find the rest of the parts from there.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qR1h-H7vNU[/url]
BurnEmDown, have you seen this movie? If so, what is your take on it?
Hoax. C'mon Israel, you can do better.
Lol, the hoax isn't part of the IDF speaker, it's just some guy who uploaded the video, it was even uploaded in 2009, unrelated to the incident.
I bet some idiot found it and thought "OMG THIS IS FROM THE MARMARA" and then started to spread it around without even checking the date.
I'm gonna watch the vid in Jugulum's post in a sec.
[editline]08:36PM[/editline]
Watched part 1, won't have time right now to watch the whole thing but I'll watch the next two parts probably.
I must say that it's true, the message at the end, that the kids say "we are taught from day one that we are the victims and that everybody hates us". I spoke about this with my friends plenty of times, it's pretty sickening, it's like they're brainwashing us into thinking we're the most hated people in the world, and even though we probably are, I think we need to just stop thinking about it and just get over it. The whole purpose of Zionism and a state for the Jews was starting a new page, where the Jews won't be oppressed, attacked, blamed for all the problems of the world, and generally be the scapegoats of society. But people can't get out of this, and I think it's something psychological, like if you have a lot of problems, saying to yourself "it's because everyone hates me" makes it comforting, like it's not your fault for most of the problems.
This is probably the reason why many Israelis use the "holocaust card", most of the people who use it when it's unrelated are just don't understand that the holocaust isn't related to everything and doesn't justify everything.
For example if I say that the Jews deserve their own state because of the holocaust, that's reasonable, but if I say that Israel can occupy the West Bank because of the holocaust, that's just stupid and ignorant.
"Never forget, never forgive" is probably the main reason for this, but it's not going to change. I don't think anyone should expect the Jews to forgive and forget. It'll happen, but forcing it will just not work.
[editline]09:04PM[/editline]
It's funny how all the Jews in the ADL and America look like regular Jews, but Israelis don't really look like ones, except for the religious ones of course.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22489395]Lol, the hoax isn't part of the IDF speaker, it's just some guy who uploaded the video, it was even uploaded in 2009, unrelated to the incident.
I bet some idiot found it and thought "OMG THIS IS FROM THE MARMARA" and then started to spread it around without even checking the date.
I'm gonna watch the vid in Jugulum's post in a sec.
[editline]08:36PM[/editline]
Watched part 1, won't have time right now to watch the whole thing but I'll watch the next two parts probably.
I must say that it's true, the message at the end, that the kids say "we are taught from day one that we are the victims and that everybody hates us". I spoke about this with my friends plenty of times, it's pretty sickening, it's like they're brainwashing us into thinking we're the most hated people in the world, and even though we probably are, I think we need to just stop thinking about it and just get over it. The whole purpose of Zionism and a state for the Jews was starting a new page, where the Jews won't be oppressed, attacked, blamed for all the problems of the world, and generally be the scapegoats of society. But people can't get out of this, and I think it's something psychological, like if you have a lot of problems, saying to yourself "it's because everyone hates me" makes it comforting, like it's not your fault for most of the problems.
This is probably the reason why many Israelis use the "holocaust card", most of the people who use it when it's unrelated are just don't understand that the holocaust isn't related to everything and doesn't justify everything.
For example if I say that the Jews deserve their own state because of the holocaust, that's reasonable, but if I say that Israel can occupy the West Bank because of the holocaust, that's just stupid and ignorant. "Never forget, never forgive" is probably the main reason for this, but it's not going to change. I don't think anyone should expect the Jews to forgive and forget. It'll happen, but forcing it will just not work.[/QUOTE]
Why don't the Tutsies have their own land? What about the Native American's?
A lot of people who have been subject to genocide don't have their own state, and the ones that do didn't acquire it by fucking setting fire to villages and killing the settlers in the night. Israel was carved out with blood.
the problem here is since you are Jewish, you fucking think you're entitled to one. That your genocide was some how more significant then everyone else.
and Israel was made to start a new page?
wait, wait, wait... so you want to be void of oppression... then you pull this shit?
[editline]07:18PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Jugulum;22488715]So I've been watching parts of "Defamation", a documentary about anti-Semitism, and it's worrying. Still, it helps to understand why the Israeli reaction to the flotilla incident was as it were, I had no idea this kind of indoctrination was going on.
If anyone is interested in watching it, it is on Youtube, here's a link for the first part, you can find the rest of the parts from there.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qR1h-H7vNU[/url]
BurnEmDown, have you seen this movie? If so, what is your take on it?[/QUOTE]
so the people on the flotilla were all anti-Semitic?
so anyone who goes against Israel is anti-Semitic?
[QUOTE=thisispain;22383460]you can't simply declare bandwagon as some ace in an argument
stay out of this unless you have something constructive to say besides "BANDWAGON".[/QUOTE]
Aye you better shut the fuck up aswell, your replies consist nothing but either pathetic bashing or so called smart trolling, go to Fast Threads.
The Native Americans were not subject to genocide.
It was a conflict fought over land. The destruction of the Native Americans was never the goal. It was always about the land. People can argue to the contrary, but it never actually holds any water. Americans weren't shy about their land grabbing motives.
Just like the Russians in WWII weren't the subject of genocide despite having lost ridiculous numbers of people. Hitler just wanted the land. (And the oil)
Genocide is slapped on a lot of things that it isn't. It's a systematic and deliberate destruction of a group. It's generally relatively rare for something to meet that criteria.
[QUOTE=Thom12255;22469144]As you saw with the Flotilla, dropping in troops into a hostile area without support ends very badly.[/QUOTE]
That does not in any way justify blowing up a building with civilians inside.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22490662]The Native Americans were not subject to genocide.
It was a conflict fought over land. The destruction of the Native Americans was never the goal. It was always about the land. People can argue to the contrary, but it never actually holds any water. Americans weren't shy about their land grabbing motives.
Just like the Russians in WWII weren't the subject of genocide despite having lost ridiculous numbers of people. Hitler just wanted the land. (And the oil)
Genocide is slapped on a lot of things that it isn't. It's a systematic and deliberate destruction of a group. It's generally relatively rare for something to meet that criteria.[/QUOTE]
Hitler considered Slavs to be almost as bad as Jews.
[QUOTE=JOMBIX;22490573]Aye you better shut the fuck up aswell, your replies consist nothing but either pathetic bashing or so called smart trolling, go to Fast Threads.[/QUOTE]
he's right
[QUOTE=lazyguy;22490704]Hitler considered Slavs to be almost as bad as Jews.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention Slavic Communists.
Had he won the war and had his ambitions realized, the Soviets probably would have experienced genocide, but the vision never materialized.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22490662]The Native Americans were not subject to genocide.
It was a conflict fought over land. The destruction of the Native Americans was never the goal. It was always about the land. People can argue to the contrary, but it never actually holds any water. Americans weren't shy about their land grabbing motives. [/quote]
Goal or not, it was still a mass slaughter.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears[/url]
[url]http://www.studyworld.com/indian_removal_act_of_1830.htm[/url]
[quote]Just like the Russians in WWII weren't the subject of genocide despite having lost ridiculous numbers of people. Hitler just wanted the land. (And the oil)[/quote]
it was a mass killing, goal is irrelevant.
[quote]Genocide is slapped on a lot of things that it isn't. It's a systematic and deliberate destruction of a group. It's generally relatively rare for something to meet that criteria.[/QUOTE]
OK, mass murder then. Not all victims of "mass murder" are given their own land.
[QUOTE=GunFox;22490662]The Native Americans were not subject to genocide.
It was a conflict fought over land. The destruction of the Native Americans was never the goal. It was always about the land. People can argue to the contrary, but it never actually holds any water. Americans weren't shy about their land grabbing motives.
Just like the Russians in WWII weren't the subject of genocide despite having lost ridiculous numbers of people. Hitler just wanted the land. (And the oil)
Genocide is slapped on a lot of things that it isn't. It's a systematic and deliberate destruction of a group. It's generally relatively rare for something to meet that criteria.[/QUOTE]
What about Gypsies? They are also a people without land who were subject to systematic extermination under the Nazi pogroms. Hitler deemed Romani people as "inferior race" and killed about a million of them in extermination camps.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22490521]Why don't the Tutsies have their own land? What about the Native American's?[/quote]
I don't know much about the tutsi or the native Americans self-view, but as far as I know they don't consider themselves a nation, but an ethnicity. An ethnic group of people that don't consider themselves a nation (as in, don't want their own state), shouldn't have their own state, because they don't even want it, and them not having one isn't bad or evil or whatever. If they'll one day decide that they're a nation and they want a state of their own, then we'll see about getting them their own state. Until then, there's nothing to bitch about.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22490521]A lot of people who have been subject to genocide don't have their own state, and the ones that do didn't acquire it by fucking setting fire to villages and killing the settlers in the night. Israel was carved out with blood.[/quote]
I don't know how many genocides occurred over history, I know about the Kurd's and the Armenian genocide, the conflict in Rwanda, Darfur, and of course the Jewish genocide.
The terrorist organizations which set fire to villages of the Arabs in Palestine and are responsible for all the other terrorist acts were widely condemned amongst the rest of the communities.
But let me ask you this: What country's independence didn't involve a conflict? I'm sure there's a few, but the majority of countries have risen due or thanks to conflicts.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22490521]the problem here is since you are Jewish, you fucking think you're entitled to one. That your genocide was some how more significant then everyone else.[/quote]
I think the Jews deserve a state and any other nation on the world. I also believe that the Palestinians deserve their own state unlike a few extremists in my country.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22490521]and Israel was made to start a new page?
wait, wait, wait... so you want to be void of oppression... then you pull this shit?[/quote]
Hey man, we started it out peacefully, we didn't attack unless we were attack or we were going to be attacked, and now, 62 years later, we're still in a conflict we're dying to get out of, but that's the thing with conflicts which are almost 100 years old, it's not so easy to stop them, you can't just wake up in the morning one day and say "today I'm gonna have peace no matter what".
Also I'd like to remark that you're a total dick. I've never once seen you speak in a not-offensive manner, you always have someone to swear at or curse or complain about, and generally you act like a prick, never able to speak politely or in a civil manner.
[editline]09:43PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22490880]What about Gypsies? They are also a people without land who were subject to systematic extermination under the Nazi pogroms. Hitler deemed Romani people as "inferior race" and killed about a million of them in extermination camps.[/QUOTE]
They certainly will deserve their own state should they decide they want one, but as far as I know the gypsies don't want their own state.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22490838]Goal or not, it was still a mass slaughter.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trail_of_Tears[/url]
[url]http://www.studyworld.com/indian_removal_act_of_1830.htm[/url]
it was a mass killing, goal is irrelevant.
OK, mass murder then. Not all victims of "mass murder" are given their own land.[/QUOTE]
Yeah mass murder is a much better term.
The goal is important. It's the difference between a genocide and mass killing. Killing someone because you don't like them and killing people simply because you believe you are entitled to their natural resources are two very different motives. Generally speaking killing for natural resources is significantly less brutal in nature than genocide. It tends to be an important distinction.
I mention it only because I find it to be a term that needs to retain its power. If it is overused to describe non-genocide then when people are actually the subject of genocide, it loses meaning and people feel less compelled to help. It's like overusing "terrorism" or "freedom". Use it too much and it stops meaning anything.
[editline]02:46PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22490880]What about Gypsies? They are also a people without land who were subject to systematic extermination under the Nazi pogroms. Hitler deemed Romani people as "inferior race" and killed about a million of them in extermination camps.[/QUOTE]
Yeah that is genocide. It was deliberate and systematic. It doesn't get any more deliberate and systematic than concentration camps.
[editline]02:48PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=lazyguy;22490704]Hitler considered Slavs to be almost as bad as Jews.[/QUOTE]
Yeah but that had little to do with is motives. He wanted lebensraum.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensraum[/url]
he wanted the "living space" and the oil in Southern Russia.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22491038]I don't know much about the tutsi or the native Americans self-view, but as far as I know they don't consider themselves a nation, but an ethnicity. An ethnic group of people that don't consider themselves a nation (as in, don't want their own state), shouldn't have their own state, because they don't even want it, and them not having one isn't bad or evil or whatever. If they'll one day decide that they're a nation and they want a state of their own, then we'll see about getting them their own state. Until then, there's nothing to bitch about.[/quote]
sooo... if the Gypsies, Native Americans and Tutsis said "hey we're an ethnic group" they would deserve their own nation? i don't follow your logic. so only religions that are subject to genocide deserve their own state? That seems pretty selective. And the tutsis wanted their own state because they had one, same with the native americans. People fucking came and drove them out.
and the biblical aspect is that Jews aren't supposed to fucking HAVE their own state until the messiah comes.
[quote]I don't know how many genocides occurred over history, I know about the Kurd's and the Armenian genocide, the conflict in Rwanda, Darfur, and of course the Jewish genocide.[/quote]
a simple fucking google search would tell you.
[quote]The terrorist organizations which set fire to villages of the Arabs in Palestine and are responsible for all the other terrorist acts were widely condemned amongst the rest of the communities.[/quote]
Ben-gurion led a lot of these. and he's on your fucking money.
[quote]But let me ask you this: What country's independence didn't involve a conflict? I'm sure there's a few, but the majority of countries have risen due or thanks to conflicts.[/quote]
[quote]I think the Jews deserve a state and any other nation on the world. I also believe that the Palestinians deserve their own state unlike a few extremists in my country.[/quote]
Yeah, Palestine doesn't necessarily have much land left, so if you guys stopped and fucking said "hay, have a state" it wouldn't be much. The Jews need to get the fuck out of Palestine.
[quote]Hey man, we started it out peacefully, we didn't attack unless we were attack or we were going to be attacked, and now, 62 years later, we're still in a conflict we're dying to get out of, but that's the thing with conflicts which are almost 100 years old, it's not so easy to stop them, you can't just wake up in the morning one day and say "today I'm gonna have peace no matter what".[/quote]
no you fucking didn't. Your fucking people went in there and slaughtered the fucking settlers.
Israel is dying to get out of conflicts? Then stop fucking causing them.
[quote]Also I'd like to remark that you're a total dick.[/quote]
so what? and you're an apologist for fucking mass murder
[quote]I've never once seen you speak in a not-offensive manner, you always have someone to swear at or curse or complain about, and generally you act like a prick, never able to speak politely or in a civil manner.[/QUOTE]
oh boo fucking hoo, you're defending war crimes, you don't get much more of a douche bag then that
[editline]07:54PM[/editline]
This is your problem, burnemdown, you pull the fucking jew persecution card more times then anyone I can fucking recall.
[editline]07:55PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=GunFox;22491090]Yeah mass murder is a much better term.
The goal is important.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I remembered the definition of genocide. Say no more.
[editline]07:58PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22491038]
They certainly will deserve their own state should they decide they want one, but as far as I know the gypsies don't want their own state.[/QUOTE]
Emil Sucka
"In 1945, we didn't want to move," he says. "We wanted the chance to live freely here, in Central and Eastern Europe, where the genocide took place. But the countries that won the war started drawing the Iron Curtain, and so the Gypsies were denied what they wanted. They felt they were sold, from the dictatorship of fascism, to the dictatorship of communism."
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22491038]I don't know much about the tutsi or the native Americans self-view, but as far as I know they don't consider themselves a nation, but an ethnicity. An ethnic group of people that don't consider themselves a nation (as in, don't want their own state), shouldn't have their own state, because they don't even want it, and them not having one isn't bad or evil or whatever. If they'll one day decide that they're a nation and they want a state of their own, then we'll see about getting them their own state. Until then, there's nothing to bitch about.
[/QUOTE]
In canada they do. They call themselves the First Nations Peoples, actually.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22491327]sooo... if the Gypsies, Native Americans and Tutsis said "hey we're an ethnic group" they would deserve their own nation? i don't follow your logic. so only religions that are subject to genocide deserve their own state? That seems pretty selective. And the tutsis wanted their own state because they had one, same with the native americans. People fucking came and drove them out. [/quote]
His logic is pretty straightforward. Jews were overwhelmingly killed by the Nazis. Jews want a state for protection. Jews got their state. Fuck the Arabs for resisting the holy land. Can't they see how persecuted we are?
Its full of holes the size of chasms and intellectual vacuum with the force of a small cosmic black hole. I wonder how he would react if Gypsies said "we want a state stretching from Haifa to Jerusalem."
[QUOTE=Warhol;22491327]
The Jews need to get the fuck out of Palestine.
[/QUOTE]
What? They lived there for centuries! Nothing really changed. Also, arabs would live A LOT better if they accept the Israeli's right to exist. It's not Jews killing them. It's Hamas as their gouvernment.
That conflict is all about terrorist organization (Hamas) doing their best to just get as much money and goods as they could. That's just why they are firing rockets at Israeli cities and then, when the payback comes, they scream 'OH NO, JEWS ARE KILLING US!' and international burocracy and various 'human-rights-watches" are happy to send supplies.
About the building materials. Do anyone really think that Hamas is going to build schools? Fucking no, they are building underground communications to Egypt with it, and then they get some more weapons and rockets to shoot at Israeli. And here we go again, the shit is spiraling.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22491327]sooo... if the Gypsies, Native Americans and Tutsis said "hey we're an ethnic group" they would deserve their own nation? i don't follow your logic. so only religions that are subject to genocide deserve their own state? That seems pretty selective. And the tutsis wanted their own state because they had one, same with the native americans. People fucking came and drove them out.[/quote]
There is a difference between a nation and an ethnic group, and that is, that a nation is an ethnic group which wants self-sovereignty - their own state.
When the native Americans were pushed out of their homes during the colonial era, there was no such thing as a nation or a state, the closest thing was a kingdom.
But around the late 18th century and the 19th century the concept of a state and a nation began to form. The US for example was a state, and a nation before that (when the Americans began to think of themselves as Americans and no English colonials and wanted to separate from England and form their own country, but without a king, what one would call a state).
The native Americans never wanted their own state, they didn't want a country or a kingdom or any kind of self-sovereignty, they wanted to live peacefully in their own tribal community or however they live, without any form of government whatsoever, that is not a nation.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22491327]and the biblical aspect is that Jews aren't supposed to fucking HAVE their own state until the messiah comes.[/quote]
Zionism isn't really religious, for example I am an atheist Zionist, I don't care what's written in the bible or what does it say about the Jews having their own state or country, just like I don't care what does it say about eating pork or milk & meat together. I and the whole Jewish nation (Zionists) want our own state, and we don't care if the bible says otherwise.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22491327]Ben-gurion led a lot of these. and he's on your fucking money.[/quote]
Ben-Gurion was old, I think around 60. I find it hard to believe that he led any terrorist action.
Perhaps you might mean that he supported them, but that'd be wrong too. From Wiki:
"During the 1936–1939 Arab revolt in Palestine, Ben-Gurion instigated a policy of restraint ("Havlagah") in which the Haganah and other Jewish groups did not retaliate for Arab attacks against Jewish civilians, concentrating only on self-defense.".
The Hagana was not a terrorist group and was later joined into the IDF. The Irgun and the Lehi did not.
[quote]Yeah, Palestine doesn't necessarily have much land left, so if you guys stopped and fucking said "hay, have a state" it wouldn't be much. The Jews need to get the fuck out of Palestine.[/quote]
We could just give them the West Bank, but trust me, if we rush these things, it'll only worsen the situation. (Read: 2005 Gaza Withdrawal).
[quote]no you fucking didn't. Your fucking people went in there and slaughtered the fucking settlers.
Israel is dying to get out of conflicts? Then stop fucking causing them.[/quote]
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about, are you? The early Zionist were by all means peaceful and never even retaliated. Only by the 20's and 30's did groups form to defend the Jewish settlements, and also terrorist groups which were condemned by the majority of the Zionist community.
[quote]so what? and you're an apologist for fucking mass murder[/quote]
What mass murder?
[quote]oh boo fucking hoo, you're defending war crimes, you don't get much more of a douche bag then that[/quote]
You claim they're war crimes, I claim otherwise. If they were indeed war crimes I wouldn't have defended them.
[quote]This is your problem, burnemdown, you pull the fucking jew persecution card more times then anyone I can fucking recall.[/quote]
Oh really? Because I can't recall pulling the "Jew persecution card" once unless it is related.
[quote]Emil Sucka
"In 1945, we didn't want to move," he says. "We wanted the chance to live freely here, in Central and Eastern Europe, where the genocide took place. But the countries that won the war started drawing the Iron Curtain, and so the Gypsies were denied what they wanted. They felt they were sold, from the dictatorship of fascism, to the dictatorship of communism."[/QUOTE]
I don't see how he's asking for a state here.
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22493656]His logic is pretty straightforward. Jews were overwhelmingly killed by the Nazis. Jews want a state for protection. Jews got their state. Fuck the Arabs for resisting the holy land. Can't they see how persecuted we are?[/QUOTE]
Fuck, why must everyone put words in my mouth? When did I say "Fuck the Arabs for resisting the holy land" or anything like it?!
I have no problem with the Arabs receiving their own state. They had that option in '48 and they rejected it, tough luck.
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22493656]Its full of holes the size of chasms and intellectual vacuum with the force of a small cosmic black hole. I wonder how he would react if Gypsies said "we want a state stretching from Haifa to Jerusalem."[/QUOTE]
Well if the gypsies would want their own state and would want one in Israel then they must bring reasons as to why their state should be in Israel. This could be historical reasons, like the majority of their population have lived in Israel over history, or spiritual connection, or that they have very large communities in Israel.
I feel like I'm teaching civic class here (if that's the correct term in English).
[QUOTE=Lambeth;22493480]In canada they do. They call themselves the First Nations Peoples, actually.[/QUOTE]
Do they ask for their own state?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22494066]
Well if the gypsies would want their own state and would want one in Israel then they must bring reasons as to why their state should be in Israel. This could be historical reasons, like the majority of their population have lived in Israel over history, or spiritual connection, or that they have very large communities in Israel.[/QUOTE]
This is highly amusing...like as if Israel would even entertain the possibility that their country belongs to the Gypsies. This is too much fun, so lets play along. What if the Gypsies brought evidence in the form of a Holy Book which says Israel belongs to them?
[QUOTE=gudman;22493895]What? They lived there for centuries![/quote]
Israel is only 62 years old.
[quote]Nothing really changed. Also, arabs would live A LOT better if they accept the Israeli's right to exist. It's not Jews killing them. It's Hamas as their gouvernment.[/quote]
They can't accept people who constantly fucking oppress them. Having a massive fucking wall around a city, cutting off supplies, treating them like animals. And you're fucking SHOCKED when they resist?
[quote]That conflict is all about terrorist organization (Hamas) doing their best to just get as much money and goods as they could. That's just why they are firing rockets at Israeli cities and then, when the payback comes, they scream 'OH NO, JEWS ARE KILLING US!' and international burocracy and various 'human-rights-watches" are happy to send supplies.[/quote]
So humanitarian aid sends them shit, so everything is all hunky dory?
[quote]About the building materials. Do anyone really think that Hamas is going to build schools? Fucking no, they are building underground communications to Egypt with it, and then they get some more weapons and rockets to shoot at Israeli. And here we go again, the shit is spiraling.[/QUOTE]
You fucking people REFUSE to fucking look to see WHY Hamas is firing rockets
so instead of me fucking sitting here telling you and you not listening, I shall fucking show you
[img]http://hojasalviento.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/gaza_wall.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.soundofegypt.com/palestinian/adult/massacres.htm[/url]
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22494131]This is highly amusing...like as if Israel would even entertain the possibility that their country belongs to the Gypsies. This is too much fun, so lets play along. What if the Gypsies brought evidence in the form of a Holy Book which says Israel belongs to them?[/QUOTE]
Then they'll bring it up to the UN I think who is responsible for the creation of new states.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22494066]Fuck, why must everyone put words in my mouth? When did I say "Fuck the Arabs for resisting the holy land" or anything like it?!
I have no problem with the Arabs receiving their own state. They had that option in '48 and they rejected it, tough luck.[/QUOTE]
How did I miss this? Suppose I take over your house tomorrow. I then decide that living quarters, Bedroom, kitchen and bathroom belong to me. You can have the attic. Do we have a deal? No? You heartless, greedy bastard!
[editline]03:58PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22494255]Then they'll bring it up to the UN I think who is responsible for the creation of new states.[/QUOTE]
And when the UN decides that Israel really belongs to the Gypsies, will you give it up then?
[editline]04:00PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=Warhol;22494211]You fucking people REFUSE to fucking look to see WHY Hamas is firing rockets[/QUOTE]
I'd tone it down a bit if I were you :p
We know that the argument is emotional and there is suffering involved, but cooler heads must prevail.
Burnemdown denies Israeli warcrimes, why do I fucking argue with you?
[editline]10:02PM[/editline]
Jesus christ, the Israelite's go in and slaughter villages and he fucking says it's peaceful
oh but a source from 20 years before it says otherwise, so it must be fucking true. you are a fuck up, burnemdown
by the way sparky, Ben Gurion was head of State military operations at the time so fuck off.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22494211]Israel is only 62 years old[/quote]
Did you tried to understand what I said? Jews lived in Palestine for centuries.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22494211]
They can't accept people who constantly fucking oppress them. Having a massive fucking wall around a city, cutting off supplies, treating them like animals. And you're fucking SHOCKED when they resist?[/quote]
They DID NOT. Jews did not oppress them. Not before, not even now. Why wall? Because of constant terrorism. Supplies was cut when Hamas took the leadership over the Palestine.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22494211]
So humanitarian aid sends them shit, so everything is all hunky dory?[/quote]
Can't get your idea here.
[quote]
You fucking people REFUSE to fucking look to see WHY Hamas is firing rockets
[/quote]
I can tell you WHY. BECAUSE it makes PROFIT for them. They refuse to accept the Israely's right to exist, they want to destroy it and send all the Jews out.
[quote]
so instead of me fucking sitting here telling you and you not listening, I shall fucking show you
[img]http://hojasalviento.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/gaza_wall.jpg[/img]
[url]http://www.soundofegypt.com/palestinian/adult/massacres.htm[/url][/QUOTE]
Oh GOD A WALL! Palestine don't want to be... connected to Israeli. So they cut off. But they don't want Israeli to exist and will do as much as they can to destroy it. So the supplies are cut off too. It's all because of them starting the conflicts, and Hamas doing shit like firing a rockets from the roofs of the hospitals and schools. They don't care about YOUR rights (like, to live), so why bother to defend their?
The King David Massacre was just a little mix up, totally not uncalled for and not a war crime
nope
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22494260]How did I miss this? Suppose I take over your house tomorrow. I then decide that living quarters, Bedroom, kitchen and bathroom belong to me. You can have the attic. Do we have a deal? No? You heartless, greedy bastard![/QUOTE]
Nice analogy that doesn't explain how it happened at all.
[QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22494260]And when the UN decides that Israel really belongs to the Gypsies, will you give it up then?[/QUOTE]
First of all, you mean IF. Now, the UN has decided that Israel should exist, but the Arabs rejected this and declared war on Israel, so I think Israel might declare war on the Gypsies if the UN decides it really belongs to them. I mean to you this seems like a reasonable thing to do, no?
[QUOTE]I'd tone it down a bit if I were you :p
We know that the argument is emotional and there is suffering involved, but cooler heads must prevail.[/QUOTE]
I don't think Warhol/Scorpio/whatever alt he decides to post in was ever in a "cool head" state of mind.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22494361]Burnemdown denies Israeli warcrimes, why do I fucking argue with you?
[editline]10:02PM[/editline]
Jesus christ, the Israelite's go in and slaughter villages and he fucking says it's peaceful
oh but a source from 20 years before it says otherwise, so it must be fucking true. you are a fuck up, burnemdown
by the way sparky, Ben Gurion was head of State military operations at the time so fuck off.[/QUOTE]
He's not the only one. He's a symptom of the problem, not the cause. There are [i]millions and millions[/i] of people like BurnEmDown who are fed on lies and misinformation and misdirected patriotism. Ive seen tons of people justifying Operation Cast Lead. Tons more justifying Blockade. Even more justifying the Apartheid Wall and occupation of Palestinians. Do we lose our top each time they show up? Nah. Lets use calm reasoning and sound logic to show why we think Israel is in the wrong.
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