• ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
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[QUOTE=smartdog;22529880]1. Gaza is an occupied territory? Who is it occupied by? 2. Hamas has declared war on Israel.[/QUOTE] 1. What's left of Palestine after Israel stole their land. 2. Israel needs to fuck off.
Scorpio, please re-explain me your point then.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22529916]Scorpio, please re-explain me your point then.[/QUOTE] Yes, this is exactly my point. If the Israelis were the provocateurs in this conflict, then this would be illegal. And we won't know that until they release the footage before the boarding. You see?
[QUOTE=starpluck;22529794]Find me both articles please.[/QUOTE] I've got these two for the gunshots so far: [url]http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137795[/url] [url]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html[/url]
Scorpio, how come I havn't seen any passanger claiming that the ship was attacked by the Israelis before they boarded the ship? All acounts are showing that the aggressors were the passangers who attacked the soldiers, you cannot dismiss a whole chain of evidence because 1 piece is missing.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22529880]1. Gaza is an occupied territory? Who is it occupied by? 2. Hamas has declared war on Israel.[/QUOTE] 1. Israel 2. Show me where Hamas said that.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22529945]Scorpio, how come I havn't seen any passanger claiming that the ship was attacked by the Israelis before they boarded the ship? All acounts are showing that the aggressors were the passangers who attacked the soldiers, you cannot dismiss a whole chain of evidence because 1 piece is missing.[/QUOTE] What do you mean? I can think of no less than three specific accounts saying that the Israelis fired live ammunition before boarding off of the top of my head. A professor of religion, a reporter from Al Jazeera, and an Israeli Parliamentarian. Who I believe was recently stripped of her title in Israeli politics and disallowed from leaving the country.
starpluck: What the hell are you talking about? Aren't we talking about the current situation? Currently the Gaza Strip is an independent entity. Well... you clearly aren't interested in knowing the truth. A short google search will show you that Hamas has declared that it will destroy Israel. They havn't used the words 'declare' - but it is obvious what their intentions are by the other things they have said. scorpio: 1. She wasn't stripped of anything (yet). 2. Hearsay is not an acountable evidence... They havn't seen anyone shooting.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22529990]Who I believe was recently stripped of her title in Israeli politics and disallowed from leaving the country.[/QUOTE] Nope. Not yet at least. [editline]02:51PM[/editline] [QUOTE=smartdog;22530011]words[/QUOTE] The reply button is at the bottom-right, next to the edit button, an the ratings.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22530011]starpluck: What the hell are you talking about? Aren't we talking about the current situation? Currently the Gaza Strip is an independent entity. Well... you clearly aren't interested in knowing the truth. A short google search will show you that Hamas has declared that it will destroy Israel. They havn't used the words 'declare' - but it is obvious what their intentions are by the other things they have said. scorpio: 1. She wasn't stripped of anything (yet). 2. Hearsay is not an acountable evidence... They havn't seen anyone shooting.[/QUOTE] Perhaps I am mistaken. Perhaps. Hearsay is information heard off hand from others with no verifiable ties to event in question. This is eye witness testimony. The Al Jazeera reporter in specific was on the deck where the fighting was happening.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22529930]I've got these two for the gunshots so far: [URL]http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/137795[/URL] [URL]http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3896796,00.html[/URL][/QUOTE] Regardless of the extremely biased sources, I guess some comanndos did receive gunshot wounds, this however, does not make me retract my statement on the right to self defense. Anyways, want to know why you couldn't find sources for the "jamming is a standard procedure" is because it isn't. You failed to provide a source for this. Also what about my other question, why would Israel seize all the recording equipment and only allow their story go into the media? It most definitely is not the bullshit excuse "IDF doesn't want the enemies to know their tactics" or else the video the IDF recorded would of never been aired. So tell me.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22530043]Regardless of the extremely biased sources, I guess some comanndos did receive gunshot wounds, this however, does not make me retract my statement on the right to self defense. Anyways, want to know why you couldn't find sources for the "jamming is a standard procedure" is because it isn't. You failed to provide a source for this. Also what about my other question, why would Israel seize all the recording equipment and only allow their story go into the media? It most definitely is not the bullshit excuse "IDF doesn't want the enemies to know their tactics" or else the video the IDF recorded would of never been aired. So tell me.[/QUOTE] What tactics? Dropping into an angry crowd, losing your shit and shooting people with side arms?
[quote] Well... you clearly aren't interested in knowing the truth. A short google search will show you that Hamas has declared that it will destroy Israel. They havn't used the words 'declare' - but it is obvious what their intentions are by the other things they have said.[/quote]I don't have to Google it, you're the one who is making the claim, so google it. [editline]12:56PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22530061]What tactics? Dropping into an angry crowd, losing your shit and shooting people with side arms?[/QUOTE] I know right? [quote=BurnEmDown]Regarding the footage, I believe that it's because armies don't usually show videos of the way they work or operate, especially not to the whole world. If an enemy were to come across such videos he could learn the tactics the IDF is using and find weakness and exploit them.[/quote] :cawg:
I really can't find the quote button... Scorpio: You are mistaked, regarding what you said about the Knesset PM... Are you saying the shooting happened during the fast-rope of the Israelis? If so, that really does make sense. Correct me if I misunderstood. starpluck, I didn't claim it was occupied. What the hell are you talking about? [url]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hamas+destroy+israel[/url]
[QUOTE=smartdog;22530155]I really can't find the quote button... Scorpio: You are mistaked, regarding what you said about the Knesset PM... Are you saying the shooting happened during the fast-rope of the Israelis? If so, that really does make sense. Correct me if I misunderstood.[/QUOTE] :downs:
[QUOTE=smartdog;22530155]I really can't find the quote button... Scorpio: You are mistaked, regarding what you said about the Knesset PM... Are you saying the shooting happened during the fast-rope of the Israelis? If so, that really does make sense. Correct me if I misunderstood. starpluck, I didn't claim it was occupied. What the hell are you talking about? [url]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hamas+destroy+israel[/url][/QUOTE] I can accept that. No, I'm saying they're saying it happened before they roped down.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22530155]starpluck, I didn't claim it was occupied. What the hell are you talking about?[/QUOTE] I read it wrong my bad. [quote] [URL]http://lmgtfy.com/?q=hamas+destroy+israel[/URL][/quote]Give me a fucking article. All those results are extremely outdated, all the way back 2005 as well as Israelnationalnews which is an biased islamophobic website. However I just learned something, a June 5th 2010 result just revealed to me that in 2006, Hamas did not campaign to destroy Israel in the 2006 elections.
OK, but contrary to the captain who actually saw what happened, they didn't - only supposedly heard shooting. Besides - think logically, why would the army shoot a boat for no reason (when they havn't done it for any of the other 5 ships) - and then will fast rope commandos on it? starpluck, you have many articles to choose from. And in my opinion, if they have declared something in the year 2009, but havn't declared something which dismissing their former declaration - that validity of the 2009 decleration still stands. That means, if Hamas declared in 2008 or w/e, that it supports the destruction of Israel, and since then hasn't released any declaration in the form of 'we don't support the destruction of Israel' - it means they still believe in what they declared in 2008. I hope I explained my point clearly although I'm pretty sure I complicated it...
[QUOTE=smartdog;22530308]OK, but contrary to the captain who actually saw what happened, they didn't - only supposedly heard shooting. Besides - think logically, why would the army shoot a boat for no reason (when they havn't done it for any of the other 5 ships) - and then will fast rope commandos on it?[/QUOTE] I didn't notice the captain saying anything about that whatsoever. Why would the army block communications off from the ship? Why would the army confiscate the civilians reporting equipment? Why would the army not release footage that would, if they're innocent, instantly clear their name? [editline]12:22PM[/editline] [QUOTE=smartdog;22530308]starpluck, you have many articles to choose from. And in my opinion, if they have declared something in the year 2009, but havn't declared something which dismissing their former declaration - that validity of the 2009 decleration still stands. That means, if Hamas declared in 2008 or w/e, that it supports the destruction of Israel, and since then hasn't released any declaration in the form of 'we don't support the destruction of Israel' - it means they still believe in what they declared in 2008. I hope I explained my point clearly although I'm pretty sure I complicated it...[/QUOTE] Is Hamas Gaza? Can a warlord in Somalia declare war on Uganda on behalf of all Somalia?
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22530341]I didn't notice the captain saying anything about that whatsoever. Why would the army block communications off from the ship? Why would the army confiscate the civilians reporting equipment? Why would the army not release footage that would, if they're innocent, instantly clear their name? [editline]12:22PM[/editline] Is Hamas Gaza? Can a warlord in Somalia declare war on Uganda on behalf of all Somalia?[/QUOTE] Yes.
scorpio, I didn't mean he mentioned it (on the other hand, why didn't he say anything about this when he was sent back to Turkey?), I meant that there is a difference between his testimony and theirs. I mentioned this just in case you will be intending to use it... 1. Can you please source all of what you said? 2. You can't really answer a question with (a) question(s). Regarding Hamas: Palestine isn't an independent country, but Gaza Strip is (well, if it isn't a country, then it is an entity). Since Hamas governs Gaza Strip - it actually can declare war on behalf of 'all' Gaza Strip.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22530043]Regardless of the extremely biased sources, I guess some comanndos did receive gunshot wounds, this however, does not make me retract my statement on the right to self defense. Anyways, want to know why you couldn't find sources for the "jamming is a standard procedure" is because it isn't. You failed to provide a source for this. Also what about my other question, why would Israel seize all the recording equipment and only allow their story go into the media? It most definitely is not the bullshit excuse "IDF doesn't want the enemies to know their tactics" or else the video the IDF recorded would of never been aired. So tell me.[/QUOTE] It's not that I found procedures and this wasn't among them, I didn't find procedures at all. The closest thing I found was the procedure for US navy men when boarding a ship, but that was a friendly ship, that is docking. [editline]04:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22530341] Is Hamas Gaza? Can a warlord in Somalia declare war on Uganda on behalf of all Somalia?[/QUOTE] Hamas isn't Gaza but they are the government.
[url]http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/10/exclusive_journalist_smuggles_out_video_of[/url] footage recorded by a journalist and smuggled out
? the video wasn't released yet or..?
Dumbdog.
[QUOTE=camper182 V2;22534020][url]http://www.democracynow.org/2010/6/10/exclusive_journalist_smuggles_out_video_of[/url] footage recorded by a journalist and smuggled out[/QUOTE] Late, check page 34.
lol, neolk started posting [editline]07:30PM[/editline] and burnemdown [editline]07:32PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22529599]proof. No it's not: [url]http://www.vilp.de/Enpdf/e025.pdf[/url] "5.2.2 Seizure and condemnation Cargo constituting contraband and a ship carrying such cargo may be seized by a belligerent, brought before a prize court and condemned. Confiscation without a prize court decision is prohibited. 5.2.3 Contraband Contraband are goods ultimately destined to the enemy of a belligerent which are designed for the use of war fighting and other goods useful for the war effort of the enemy."[/QUOTE] We've already been fucking over this. how is fucking food and shit like that contraband? And is there a list of what's considered contraband? [editline]07:32PM[/editline] Burnemdown, we've refuted TWO maritime laws you've sourced. Any others you'd like to post? [editline]07:34PM[/editline] [QUOTE=smartdog;22530308] Besides - think logically, why would the army shoot a boat for no reason (when they havn't done it for any of the other 5 ships) - and then will fast rope commandos on it? [/QUOTE] Israel does stupid shit all the time then passes it off as an accident. IE human shields, letting pro-Israeli terrorists go into two refugee camps and slaughter over a 1000 people, most of them children, or bombing a UN hospital/school with white prosperous.
[QUOTE=Warhol;22536269]lol, neolk started posting [editline]07:30PM[/editline] and burnemdown [editline]07:32PM[/editline] We've already been fucking over this. how is fucking food and shit like that contraband? And is there a list of what's considered contraband? [editline]07:32PM[/editline] Burnemdown, we've refuted TWO maritime laws you've sourced. Any others you'd like to post?[/QUOTE] You didn't refute the Helsinki one, and the food that is considered contraband is luxurious food that the people who are in need of humanitarian aid won't get anyway. I mean, if you're in a desperate need of food, would you care about having some spices on your fresh meat, or would you rather have two meals of frozen meat?
[QUOTE=camper182 V2;22534459]Dumbdog.[/QUOTE] Dumbass, I've made a mistake.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22536578]You didn't refute the Helsinki one, and the food that is considered contraband is luxurious food that the people who are in need of humanitarian aid won't get anyway. I mean, if you're in a desperate need of food, would you care about having some spices on your fresh meat, or would you rather have two meals of frozen meat?[/QUOTE] lol, you obviously have never been in a donation drive or food collection. It's obvious they've collected that food or had it given to them. It's not like they MADE it. When you collect food, you collect what you get. The problem here is you're acting like they SUBSTITUTED spices for food. I have been in food collection drives for fucking homeless people where people have given things like spices, or something more expensive. Food is food. The spices don't fucking substitute what's given. This is fucking ASININE to think it does you nutcase. You're acting like they had the food and was like "welp, we got three things of meat and some spices... get rid of two things of meat! Free Palestine!" and NO where in the Helsinki law book, do i find "luxurious foods" as being contraband. You are flat out lying, burnemdown. And since when is "luxurious foods" contraband. What constitutes luxurious foods? Is there a list of contraband? (tbh, i think the correct answer to this question is "it's all bullshit, so no need to answer" ) [editline]07:49PM[/editline] [quote=smartdog;22536587]dumbass, i've made a mistake.[/quote] dumbdogggggg [editline]07:50PM[/editline] And a box of spices doesn't take up that much space. [editline]07:50PM[/editline] jesus, burnemdown, do I HAVE to hold you hand in these arguments?
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