• ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
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[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22537278][url]http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34903&Cr=palestin&Cr1=[/url] There you go.[/quote] They did that once, and it was recent... lol I had a thought last night. You seem to run behind the UN whenever Israel fucks up, yet... you seem to ignore the blatant breaches of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. Which leaves me to believe that you're not sticking with the UN for any humanist philosophy, but of that of some biased shit head philosophy to protect your country and all its crimes. [quote]Edit: You guys are like conspiracy theorists.[/QUOTE] It's called a debate, burnemdown, you present evidence in a debate. Do you like go into courtrooms and claim the lawyers are like conspiracy theorists?
[QUOTE=JDK721;22537429]asking for source/evidence = conspiracy theorist :downs:[/QUOTE] It's not that, I have no problem with that, it's just that you think Israel will do every little thing to lie about the situation, it's ridiculous.
[QUOTE=JDK721;22537429]asking for source/evidence = conspiracy theorist :downs:[/QUOTE] You think jews did 9/11, didn't you?
[QUOTE=starpluck;22536943]That's not true. Clinton said she will obliterate Iran. She never took back her statement.[/QUOTE] .... I have no idea what she said, but her statement isn't an official statement of the American administration. Hamas was yet to show it doesn't support the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jews (which is one of the movement's artical in it's charter).
[QUOTE=smartdog;22537477].... I have no idea what she said, but her statement isn't an official statement of the American administration. Hamas was yet to show it doesn't support the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jews (which is one of the movement's artical in it's charter).[/QUOTE] First of all, your grammar is atrocious, it's so hard to understand what you're saying. Second of all, the charter was abandoned and even denounced. It wasn't even WRITTEN by Hamas. btw, i've READ the charter, where does it say "every jew on earth must be killed"
[QUOTE=smartdog;22537477].... I have no idea what she said, but her statement isn't an official statement of the American administration. Hamas was yet to show it doesn't support the destruction of Israel and the genocide of the Jews (which is one of the movement's artical in it's charter).[/QUOTE] Hamas doesn't have to show it doesn't want Israel to be destroyed to prove it doesn't. I don't have to admit I'm not a serial killer just confirm I am not one. Also, how many times do people have to bring up the charter of Hamas? I have to fucking explain it to them everytime. Bring it up if you want.
blaming Hamas for the charter, is like blaming the US for the articles of confederation.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22537474]It's not that, I have no problem with that, it's just that you think Israel will do every little thing to lie about the situation, it's ridiculous.[/QUOTE] Let's see. [LIST] [*]Israel denied use of WP - [B]Later admitted it after being proven with substantial evidence [/B] [*]Israel denied harvesting organs - [B]Later admitted it after being proven with substantial evidence[/B] [*]Israel denies South African nuke - [B]Unclassified documents reveal it[/B] [*]Israel claims the Flotilla members told the IDF to go back to 'Auschwitz' [B]- After people found errors in the transmission and suspicion was great, Israel admitted editing the video[/B] [/LIST] And you know, the list goes on and on. We have a right to accuse Israel of lying.
[QUOTE=starpluck;22537651]Let's see. Israel claims the Flotilla members told the IDF to go back to 'Auschwitz' [B]- After people found errors in the transmission and suspicion was great, Israel admitted editing the video[/B] .[/QUOTE] They did do that you know, they only edited the video to remove lots of parts with only silence.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22537971]They did do that you know, they only edited the video to remove lots of parts with only silence.[/QUOTE] lol, no they didn't
[QUOTE=starpluck;22537536]Hamas doesn't have to show it doesn't want Israel to be destroyed to prove it doesn't. I don't have to admit I'm not a serial killer just confirm I am not one. Also, how many times do people have to bring up the charter of Hamas? I have to fucking explain it to them everytime. Bring it up if you want.[/QUOTE] 1. That isn't the same. There is a difference between act and will - so your analogy doesn't fit. If a government states that "X country should be destroyed", then it has to take its' word back for us not believe that's its' will anymore. Serial Killing is an act... it isn't the same as saying something. 2.From the charter of HAMAS: The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." warhol, yes they did. They uploaded the full tape as well: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2StbDL_Q&feature=player_embedded[/url] "Israel denied harvesting organs - Later admitted it after being proven with substantial evidence" What the fuck? Sources? "Israel claims the Flotilla members told the IDF to go back to 'Auschwitz' - After people found errors in the transmission and suspicion was great, Israel admitted editing the video" Yes, it admitted editing the tape, not faking it. "Israel denies South African nuke - Unclassified documents reveal it" As part of the Israeli denial it has nukes...
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538343]1. That isn't the same. There is a difference between act and will - so your analogy doesn't fit. If a government states that "X country should be destroyed", then it has to take its' word back for us not believe that's its' will anymore. Serial Killing is an act... it isn't the same as saying something.. 2.From the charter of HAMAS: The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."[/QUOTE] [[Mousa Abu Marzook]], the deputy of the political bureau of Hamas, in 2007 described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation" in 1988. Marzook added that "if every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents . . ., there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides," noting as an example that the [[US Constitution]] engaged in codifying [[slavery]].<ref>[[URL]http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/opinion/la-oe-marzook10jul10,1,3392144.story[/URL] "Hamas' Stand"] ''The Los Angeles Times'' July 10, 2007</ref> Senior British [[diplomat]] and former British [[ambassador]] to the [[UN]] [[Jeremy Greenstock|Sir Jeremy Greenstock]] stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006". Greenstock also stated that Hamas is not intent on the destruction of Israel.<ref name="news.bbc.co.uk">[[URL]http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7823000/7823746.stm[/URL] BBC Today Programme interview with Sir Jeremy Greenstock, 12 January 2009]
They never took their word back about killing the Jews according to your passage. Try again.
I don't blame the US for their first constitution draft because they changed it many times. Did the Hamas ever change their charter?
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538343] "Israel denied harvesting organs - Later admitted it after being proven with substantial evidence" What the fuck? Sources?[/quote] You clearly have no idea whats going on. [URL]http://abcnews.go.com/International/israel-harvested-organs-permission-families-dead/story?id=9390407[/URL] [URL]http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/12/21/israel.organs/index.html[/URL] [URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/dec/21/israeli-pathologists-harvested-organs[/URL] [quote] "Israel denies South African nuke - Unclassified documents reveal it" As part of the Israeli denial it has nukes...[/quote] [URL]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons[/URL] [editline]09:05PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22538545]I don't blame the US for their first constitution draft because they changed it many times. Did the Hamas ever change their charter?[/QUOTE] They just threw it out completely.
Did you read the article? "According to the program, pathologists at the Abu Kabir institute also took skin, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli civilians and Palestinians. They often did so without seeking the permission of relatives." -As wrong as it is (and it is very, very wrong!) presenting it as it is a policity against the Palestinian specifically is a blantat lie.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538615]Did you read the article? "According to the program, pathologists at the Abu Kabir institute also took skin, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli civilians and Palestinians. They often did so without seeking the permission of relatives." -As wrong as it is (and it is very, very wrong!) presenting it as policity against the Palestinian as a blantat lie.[/QUOTE] Er, he didn't say it was. He said it was an example of them lying.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538529]They never took their word back about killing the Jews according to your passage. Try again.[/QUOTE] They just threw it out completely and refused to adopt it when elected. [editline]09:08PM[/editline] [QUOTE=smartdog;22538615]Did you read the article? "According to the program, pathologists at the Abu Kabir institute also took skin, heart valves and bones from the bodies of Israeli soldiers, Israeli civilians and Palestinians. They often did so without seeking the permission of relatives." -As wrong as it is (and it is very, very wrong!) presenting it as it is a policity against the Palestinian specifically is a blantat lie.[/QUOTE] Please don't ask if I can read myself when you just proven you can't.
starpluck, you clearly don't have any clue of what you are talking about with regards to the Palestinians inner-politics. They have never 'threw it away', it has always been part of their policy and the fact they keep repeating it just blods that fact. Mr. Scorpio, what Israel has denied is that it kidnapped palestinians in order to harvest their organs, which is not a lie...
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538343]1. That isn't the same. There is a difference between act and will - so your analogy doesn't fit. If a government states that "X country should be destroyed", then it has to take its' word back for us not believe that's its' will anymore. Serial Killing is an act... it isn't the same as saying something.[/quote] You are literally going in circles. [quote]The Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to implement Allah's promise, whatever time that may take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgment will not come about until the Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them), until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: Oh Muslim! Oh Abdullah!, there is a Jew behind me, come on and kill him. Only the Gharqad tree would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews."[/quote] lol, you edited that. And that's actually a quote of the quaran, from a surah which is literally describing resistance to oppression. It says retaliate against the people who were oppressing them, the jews in this passage. If you read the whole article, you would realise that's a bit of a hyperbole for resistance and conversion. Why are we arguing about the charter, Hamas doesn't use it nor do they like it. They didn't even fucking write it. [quote]warhol, yes they did. They uploaded the full tape as well: [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2StbDL_Q&feature=player_embedded[/url][/quote] lol, israel admitted they edited it. [quote]"Israel denied harvesting organs - Later admitted it after being proven with substantial evidence"[/quote] lol, that was a really, really big story. [quote]"Israel claims the Flotilla members told the IDF to go back to 'Auschwitz' - After people found errors in the transmission and suspicion was great, Israel admitted editing the video" Yes, it admitted editing the tape, not faking it.[/quote] What the fuck do you think editing is? [quote]"Israel denies South African nuke - Unclassified documents reveal it" As part of the Israeli denial it has nukes...[/QUOTE] [editline]09:10PM[/editline] [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22538545]I don't blame the US for their first constitution draft because they changed it many times. Did the Hamas ever change their charter?[/QUOTE] yeah, they don't fucking use it at all anymore. [editline]09:12PM[/editline] [QUOTE=smartdog;22538529]They never took their word back about killing the Jews according to your passage. Try again.[/QUOTE] there's a LOT said in the charter lol, so in order for them to be taken seriously, they need to go through the whole thing and say they take back EVERYTHING the whole fucking document says? It's a huge fucking document. [editline]09:13PM[/editline] "try again"? Oh shut up, you pretentious fuck
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538706]starpluck, you clearly don't have any clue of what you are talking about with regards to the Palestinians inner-politics. They have never 'threw it away', it has always been part of their policy and the fact they keep repeating it just blods that fact. Mr. Scorpio, what Israel has denied is that it kidnapped palestinians in order to harvest their organs, which is not a lie...[/QUOTE] Jesus Christ, stop posting on a subject you have no idea about. It makes yourself look an idiot. Hamas denounced it, and refused accept the charter when elected. You refuse to believe this. Fuck, there can't be any more truth then that.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538706]starpluck, you clearly don't have any clue of what you are talking about with regards to the Palestinians inner-politics. They have never 'threw it away', it has always been part of their policy and the fact they keep repeating it just blods that fact. Mr. Scorpio, what Israel has denied is that it kidnapped palestinians in order to harvest their organs, which is not a lie...[/QUOTE] lol, the fucking government said it themselves. You are literally just sticking your thumbs in your ears. It... Is a lie, actually. They did so. They came out and SAID they lied. Are you fucking paying attention? [editline]09:16PM[/editline] Fuck, burnemdown at least ACCEPTS the fact Israel fucked up (regardless of defending it or not) you on the other hand deny it, even WHEN they come out and say they fucking did. you are in it for the fucking win, aren't you?
[QUOTE=Warhol;22538846]lol, the fucking government said it themselves. You are literally just sticking your thumbs in your ears. It... Is a lie, actually. They did so. They came out and SAID they lied. Are you fucking paying attention?[/QUOTE] I am astounded by his selective-hearing stupidity.
You really, really are clueless. I havn't edited shit. Here is the source: [url]http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp[/url] The Surah isn't describing resisting, it describes the genocide of the Jews. And I didn't deny Israel edited it. But BurnEmDown said "They did do that you know, they only edited the video to remove lots of parts with only silence" - which you responded "No, they didn't" -WHICH they definitly DID. You two are clueless, intellectual dishonst pricks who pretend they have any understanding of the conflict or any knowledge of it. It is rather pathetic. You two should do some research before trying to pretend you know shit about this. starpluck, you have clearly demonstrated your ignorance and misunderstanding of the politics of HAMAS, and have clearly demonstarted that you allow yourself to make shit up. HAMAS has never denounced its' charter, stating otherwise would be a blantant lie. warhol, get out of this thread and when you'll be able to fucking understand what you read come back and try to debate about things you don't know shit about.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538876]You really, really are clueless. I havn't edited shit. Here is the source: [URL]http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp[/URL] The Surah isn't describing resisting, it describes the genocide of the Jews. And I didn't deny Israel edited it. But BurnEmDown said "They did do that you know, they only edited the video to remove lots of parts with only silence" - which you responded "No, they didn't" -WHICH they definitly DID.[/QUOTE] [B]DUDE. ARE YOU FUCKING BLIND/DEAF? [/B]How many fucking times do I have to repeat that Hamas refused to accept the damn charter and denounced it?
THEY NEVER DENOUNCED IT. THEY DON'T NEED TO DECLARE THEY SUPPORT THEIR OWN CHARTER, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT IS THEIR O-W-N FUCKING CHARTER. IF THEY DON'T DENOUNCE T-H-E-I-R CHARTER, THEY FUCKING SUPPORT IT. Fuck it, though. I know you care about your destructive and shit-filled agenda and not about the godamn facts and real life.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538876]You really, really are clueless. I havn't edited shit. Here is the source: [url]http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp[/url][/quote] lol, that source buries your argument too. [quote]The Surah isn't describing resisting, it describes the genocide of the Jews.[/quote] "Fight back" usually means resistance. [quote]And I didn't deny Israel edited it. But BurnEmDown said "They did do that you know, they only edited the video to remove lots of parts with only silence" - which you responded "No, they didn't" -WHICH they definitly DID.[/quote] Burnemdown says a lot of things. And he said that without any source. [quote]You two are clueless, intellectual dishonst pricks[/quote] keep going with it. [quote] who pretend they have any understanding of the conflict or any knowledge of it.[/quote] You didn't even know about the organ harvesting lol. [quote] It is rather pathetic.[/quote] Are you going to make a point? [quote]You two should do some research before trying to pretend you know shit about this. starpluck, you have clearly demonstrated your ignorance and misunderstanding of the politics of HAMAS, and have clearly demonstarted that you allow yourself to make shit up. [/quote] can't find anything relevant here. [quote]HAMAS has never denounced its' charter, stating otherwise would be a blantant lie.[/QUOTE] Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy of the political bureau of Hamas, in 2007 described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation" in 1988. Senior British diplomat and former British ambassador to the UN Sir Jeremy Greenstock stated in early 2009 that the Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago and has never been adopted since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006". Greenstock also stated that Hamas is not intent on the destruction of Israel.[53] oh a UN dude on wiki, that should make burnemdown happy. [editline]09:28PM[/editline] [QUOTE=smartdog;22538876] warhol, get out of this thread and when you'll be able to fucking understand what you read come back and try to debate about things you don't know shit about.[/QUOTE] Well, aren't we pretentious. [editline]09:29PM[/editline] [QUOTE=smartdog;22538993]THEY NEVER DENOUNCED IT. THEY DON'T NEED TO DECLARE THEY SUPPORT THEIR OWN CHARTER, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT IS THEIR O-W-N FUCKING CHARTER. IF THEY DON'T DENOUNCE T-H-E-I-R CHARTER, THEY FUCKING SUPPORT IT. [/QUOTE] Mousa Abu Marzook sure as fuck doesn't you know, him, being, quite the higher-up in Hamas.
[QUOTE=smartdog;22538876] You two are clueless, intellectual dishonst pricks who pretend they have any understanding of the conflict or any knowledge of it. It is rather pathetic. You two should do some research before trying to pretend you know shit about this. starpluck, you have clearly demonstrated your ignorance and misunderstanding of the politics of HAMAS, and have clearly demonstarted that you allow yourself to make shit up. HAMAS has never denounced its' charter, stating otherwise would be a blantant lie. warhol, get out of this thread and when you'll be able to fucking understand what you read come back and try to debate about things you don't know shit about.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=smartdog;22538993]THEY NEVER DENOUNCED IT. THEY DON'T NEED TO DECLARE THEY SUPPORT THEIR OWN CHARTER, AND THAT'S BECAUSE IT IS THEIR O-W-N FUCKING CHARTER. IF THEY DON'T DENOUNCE T-H-E-I-R CHARTER, THEY FUCKING SUPPORT IT. Fuck it, though. I know you care about your destructive and shit-filled agenda and not about the godamn facts and real life.[/QUOTE] I'm only going to explain this to you one last time, I am going to try to speak layman as possible so hopefully your intellectually challenged mind could understand. Regarding Hamas' relations with its charter. The deputy of the political bureau of Hamas described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation" in 1988". He said further said that "if every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents . . ., there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides," noting as an example that the [[US Constitution]] engaged in codifying [[slavery]]. Why would he make these remarks about the charter if they "SUPPORT IT!11" so much? And finally, the indisputable evidence. The Hamas charter was "drawn up by a Hamas-linked imam some [twenty] years ago [B]and has never been adopted[/B] since Hamas was elected as the Palestinian government in 2006". You have exhibited to all of us that you continue to deny these statements. I recommend you seeking help if you continue to believe yourself like this. [editline]09:31PM[/editline] Its absolutely frighting. StupidDog knows more then the deputy of Hamas. I don't know what to say. [editline]09:32PM[/editline] I'm going to repeat this one more time. The deputy of the political bureau of Hamas described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation" in 1988". He said further said that "if every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents . . ., there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides," noting as an example that the [[US Constitution]] engaged in codifying [[slavery]]. These statements would of never been made if they supported their non-adopted charter.
Let me help: The deputy of the political bureau of Hamas described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation" in 1988". He said further said that "if every state or movement were to be judged solely by its foundational, revolutionary documents . . ., there would be a good deal to answer for on all sides," noting as an example that the [[US Constitution]] engaged in codifying [[slavery]]. Hamas also has a political platform, it has stated several times it doesn't use the Charter. It's not even part of their politics.
haha, so many 'lols'. Let me destroy you: 1. "lol, that source buries your argument too." No, it definitly does. Let me explain you: You enter this link: [url]http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/hamas.asp[/url] Then, scroll down until you'll find Article Seven. Then, fucking read it. You should find this in the article: "Moreover, if the links have been distant from each other and if obstacles, placed by those who are the lackeys of Zionism in the way of the fighters obstructed the continuation of the struggle, the Islamic Resistance Movement aspires to the realisation of Allah's promise, no matter how long that should take. The Prophet, Allah bless him and grant him salvation, has said: "The Day of Judgement will not come about until Moslems fight the Jews (killing the Jews), when the Jew will hide behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say O Moslems, O Abdulla, there is a Jew behind me, come and kill him. Only the Gharkad tree, (evidently a certain kind of tree) would not do that because it is one of the trees of the Jews." (related by al-Bukhari and Moslem)." That proves I didn't edit shit. 2. ""Fight back" usually means resistance." Irrelavent to the fact that the article clearly states Hamas's aspiration is to make Allah's promise become real, which is, according to what they quoted in their charter - the genocide of the Jews. It says it right their, black upon white. 3. "Burnemdown says a lot of things. And he said that without any source." Aha, so you just immidietly call it to be wrong. How typical of you and people of your type. 4. "You didn't even know about the organ harvesting lol." That's true, I didn't know about that. That's why I asked for a source. Contrary to you, I want to be aware to all of the facts sorounding this conflict before pretending to know I understand shit. That's why I asked for source instead of dismissing it. That doesn't change the fact you two know shit about the conflict. You've been consisted on demonstrating that. 5. "Mousa Abu Marzook, the deputy of the political bureau of Hamas, in 2007 described the charter as "an essentially revolutionary document born of the intolerable conditions under occupation"" -No denouncing it here. And no, a BRITISH DIPLOMAT is not THE HAMAS GOVERNMENT. Try again. They have NEVER denounced it. You quote X and claim it says Y, fucking incredable! starpluck, you are as bad as him. I thought you were a bit higher then him in your reading abillities. I'm sad being proven wrong.
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