• ISRAEL THREAD (Post new Israel threads = get banned)
    1,592 replies, posted
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;22391515]Sorry for prying into your personal opinions but you seem to be the most vocal supporter of Israel on Facepunch, you seem to make some fairly strong accusations branding everyone as terrorist supporters ect... What about the near apartheid being enforced in the west bank though? Surely that can't sit right with you?[/QUOTE] You mean the guys that construct houses in eastern Jerusalem? Fuck these guys, bunch of religious extremists in my opinion.
[QUOTE=DogGunn;22391366]You forgot the bit where BurnEmDown was being asked for their opinion.[/QUOTE] You can't postulate an opinion on whether something is illegal or not. It's either legal, or illegal. And in the case of the blockade, the UN believes it to be unlawful.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22391566]You can't postulate an opinion on whether something is illegal or not. It's either legal, or illegal.[/QUOTE] Ever heard of Non liquet? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacuna_(law[/url])
[QUOTE=Zeke129;22391566]You can't postulate an opinion on whether something is illegal or not. It's either legal, or illegal. And in the case of the blockade, the UN believes it to be unlawful.[/QUOTE] You know that legislation gets interpreted to determine if something is illegal or not? I don't seen how you can't determine for yourself if something is legal or not.
It's a bit hard to take a source that insists the passengers of the ship are mercenaries seriously.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;22391593]Ever heard of Non liquet? [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lacuna_(law[/url])[/QUOTE] That's for judges, not regular people
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22391470]No, both sides are biased. At first it was the IDF's words against the activists', so obviously you couldn't blame the IDF for such thing without further proof. But then a video was released showing the IDF to have been attacked first, which proves, at least until other videos are released, that the IDF was only defending itself, against a ruthless mob of aggressors.[/QUOTE] What video is this? The one where they board from the helicopter? Because that still doesn't prove whether or not they fired live rounds before boarding the ship. In fact, I'm pretty sure it doesn't prove anything that wasn't already known.
[QUOTE=Taishu;22391651]What video is this? The one where they board from the helicopter? Because that still doesn't prove whether or not they fired live rounds before boarding the ship. In fact, I'm pretty sure it doesn't prove anything that wasn't already known.[/QUOTE] Yes, it doesn't prove whether or not they fired live rounds before boarding, but that doesn't matter. I could also say that there's no proof that the activists didn't shoot a bazooka on the IDF, it would be just as silly. The fact is that you need to prove that they DID shoot before boarding, until then they are considered clear of all charges.
Apparently he was shot five times from a distance less than 45cm. Seriously, the shooter must have been a triggerhappy motherfucker, he was shot by several people, or the victim must have put up one hell of a fight. And according to a Norwegian news site, he was shot in the face, back of head, twice in his leg and once in the back.
[QUOTE=Glorbo;22391548]You mean the guys that construct houses in eastern Jerusalem? Fuck these guys, bunch of religious extremists in my opinion.[/QUOTE] Jewish and Israeli citizens lyncing and evicting Palestinians in these areas is a concern, and what about all the other settlements built in the West bank, and the closed military areas? Even many of the new paved roads are Israeli only in the west bank, with Palestinians being banned from them.
So are you really making the suggestion that people can not form opinions on legal questions unless they're a judge?
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22391678]Yes, it doesn't prove whether or not they fired live rounds before boarding, but that doesn't matter.[/QUOTE] So you agree that it is unclear who attacked first? [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22391678]I could also say that there's no proof that the activists didn't shoot a bazooka on the IDF, it would be just as silly.[/QUOTE] I don't see how that compares at all, seeing as how there are no accounts of such an event happening, nor were there any weapons found by the IDF. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22391678]The fact is that you need to prove that they DID shoot before boarding, until then they are considered clear of all charges.[/QUOTE] I'm not saying that they definitely fired first, all I'm saying is that it is unclear. You speak as if you know for certain what happened on that boat.
Plot for MW3.
Well maybe I don't know what happened for certain, but for now all we know, is that the IDF boarded the ship, legally, and where then brutally attacked. The fact that we don't know if they fired before boarding or not, shouldn't be taken into consideration, because we just aren't sure on the matter, and can't add it to the equation.
[QUOTE=zombieslaya;22388740]Glad to hear at least this one went peacefully.[/QUOTE] At least? Only one ship even resisted. That should tell you something.
[QUOTE=Henry Townshend;22391846]Plot for MW3.[/QUOTE] Goldstein, aim down your sights
[QUOTE=Nyaos;22384869]Don't you get it? If you had to use weapons and kill activists, maybe you shouldn't have boarded in the first place? Israeli Commandos aren't washouts, they know what they're doing and they knew what would happen.[/QUOTE] Funny. The other ships didn't put up any resistance at all. Why would you think this one any different, if it's a peaceful aid ship? There's a blockade for a reason. It searches ships for a reason. You're suggesting they let the thing go through without inspecting it first. Where do you think the Palestinians keep getting rockets?
Finkleman, do everything.
[QUOTE=SeamanStains;22391717]Even many of the new paved roads are Israeli only in the west bank, with Palestinians being banned from them.[/QUOTE] Because people got rocks thrown at their cars from the palestinian side. They didn't do it because they thought the palestinians are less superior than them. They just re-opened a road to west bank residents, and guess what? Israelis got a shitload of rocks to the windshield. [editline]02:38PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Zeke129;22391647]That's for judges, not regular people[/QUOTE] Exactly. The UN is like the government, and the security council is like the parliament. The UN can point and call whatever they want illegal, but it is the security council that actually decides on that matter.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22383454]"Just as bad as the commandos" and why were the commandos bad?[/QUOTE] Um...Excuse me?They just attacked a boat filled with nothing but AID SUPPLIES,called them terrorists and killed 16 or something of them.Why were they bad indeed.
[QUOTE=killkill85;22392140]Um...Excuse me?They just attacked a boat filled with nothing but AID SUPPLIES,called them terrorists and killed 16 or something of them.Why were they bad indeed.[/QUOTE] I'm sick of people that aren't reading the thread.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22391863]Well maybe I don't know what happened for certain, but for now all we know, is that the IDF boarded the ship, legally, and where then brutally attacked.[/QUOTE] Right. What we also know for certain is that one activist was shot once in the chest, then four times in the head. What we also know for certain is that five of the nine people killed were shot from behind. We also know that most of people killed were shot several times. The IDF soldiers were attacked with sticks and rods. I guess we have different interpretations of the word "brutal" [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22391863]The fact that we don't know if they fired before boarding or not, shouldn't be taken into consideration, because we just aren't sure on the matter, and can't add it to the equation.[/QUOTE] Witness accounts don't count? Just because we don't know something for certain doesn't mean we can outright reject it.
[QUOTE=Taishu;22392254]Right. What we also know for certain is that one activist was shot once in the chest, then four times in the head. What we also know for certain is that five of the nine people killed were shot from behind. We also know that most of people killed were shot several times. The IDF soldiers were attacked with sticks and rods. I guess we have different interpretations of the word "brutal" Witness accounts don't count? Just because we don't know something for certain doesn't mean we can outright reject it.[/QUOTE] Which would corroborate with eye witness testimony. But never mind that, what did you say BurnEmDown? Eye witness testimony isn't reliable? Like shit. From what I see the only evidence that supports the IDF comes from the IDF.
[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;22385178]They boarded a ship to defend the blockade, with the intent of inspecting the ship and its cargo, not taking control of it completely.[/QUOTE] This here is what everybody seems to misconstrue. Do people not understand the point of a blockade? THAT is why the boarded the ship, because they broke the blockade. Secondly, them defending themselves is complete and utter bullshit. They said they were peaceful activists, yet the first thing they did was attack the commandos as the boarded the ship. Take a lesson from Gandhi. Peaceful protest means non-violence, not make makeshift weapons and wear bullet proof vests saying death to Israel. The Irish ship that came in got it right, these folks got it horribly wrong.
[QUOTE=UncleJimmema;22392314]This here is what everybody seems to misconstrue. Do people not understand the point of a blockade? THAT is why the boarded the ship, because they broke the blockade. Secondly, them defending themselves is complete and utter bullshit. They said they were peaceful activists, yet the first thing they did was attack the commandos as the boarded the ship. Take a lesson from Gandhi. Peaceful protest means non-violence, not make makeshift weapons and wear bullet proof vests saying death to Israel. The Irish ship that came in got it right, these folks got it horribly wrong.[/QUOTE] well no they didn't break the blockade they were GOING to break the blockade and once again, you fucking sorry ass motherfuckers, how many fucking times do I have to take a fucking hammer and beat this shit into your fucking skulls before the protoplasmic ooze that is your brains begins to understand it, [I][B]A ONE MINUTE CLIP THAT DOES NOT SHOW THE BEGINNING OF THE CONFLICT, IS NOT EVIDENCE OF WHAT HAPPENED AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CONFLICT. FOR EXAMPLE, A MAN PULLS A GUN ON ANOTHER MAN. THE MAN TAKES THE GUN OUT OF THE OTHER MAN'S HAND, THROWS IT AWAY, AND BEATS THE SHIT OUT OF HIM. YOU SHOW ONLY THE PART WHERE HE BEAT THE SHIT OUT OF HIM. THAT IS NOT PROOF THE OTHER MAN DID NOT PULL A GUN ON HIM. This is simple fucking shit, write it down or something because you are obviously incapable of remembering it.[/B][/I]
Just to make things clear, the 1 minute clip that Israel released isn't the start of what happened. There were several boarding attempts and unknown events beforehand. Coming to such a solid conclusion without even seeing what happened is a little silly.
Scorpio, the video you brought in the thread which was closed, was admitted to have been edited by the IDF, it says so in the description. This is the full, unedited recording of the radio communications between the ships: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dE2StbDL_Q[/media] You can hear the "shut up, go back to aushwiz" part in 2:05. And you can hear the "don't forget 9-11" part in 5:42. I know you would just say that it was edited by the IDF and the fact that the claim it wasn't doesn't mean a thing, but I just wanted to bring you the video which at least the IDF claims is unedited, the other one was admitted to have been edited.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;22392298]Which would corroborate with eye witness testimony. But never mind that, what did you say BurnEmDown? Eye witness testimony isn't reliable? Like shit. From what I see the only evidence that supports the IDF comes from the IDF.[/QUOTE] There where only two parties there any way, the IDF and the activists.
The IDF public relations is just so unprofessional.
[QUOTE=johnlukeg;22392395]Just to make things clear, the 1 minute clip that Israel released isn't the start of what happened. There were several boarding attempts and unknown events beforehand. Coming to such a solid conclusion without even seeing what happened is a little silly.[/QUOTE] I do stand corrected on them not breaking the blockade, but heading toward the blockade with probable reason to break it is reason enough to board. If you've ever read what I had stated in any of the other threads what happened before that, while important, is irrelevant to what happened during the boarding of the ship. First, at the time of the boarding there was no live fire. The commandos landed on board and were attacked as soon as they reached the mob. Second, they already had weapons prepared and carried things such as bullet proof vests and gas masks. While if they stated that they were anything but a peaceful aid vessel it would be justifiable, but they stated that they were going to be a peaceful ship! Third, it is known that there were mercenaries on board. They were the ones who spearheaded the attack on the commandos. Why would a peaceful aid vessel need mercenaries on board?! In my opinion this whole thing was orchestrated to get the exact reaction that a majority of the world is giving towards Israel.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.