[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50132845 @ Svinnik]I understand you don't like Bernie, and that's fine. Who do you think would be more qualified? Because it's quite clear you intend on voting someone else.[/QUOTE]
He's supporting Trump, the irony of him making a snide comment about Bernie's cult of personality is probably lost on him though.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50132769][t]http://i.imgur.com/vBJWane.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/wDj7XVs.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/ZVWChvV.jpg[/t]
Definition of propaganda;
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
You need politicians to cause change. MLK was influential but in the end, it was the civil rights act that banned segregation.[/QUOTE]
The first image really seems to be more of an attack on Bernie.
The second image is so god damn boring and non threatening that you can't even begin to call it propaganda.
The second image is also not propaganda.
Do you even know what propaganda is because you've been drinking the kool-aid for months and at this point I'd be surprised if you even realized how much propaganda you've swallowed whole.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50132892]The first image really seems to be more of an attack on Bernie.
The second image is so god damn boring and non threatening that you can't even begin to call it propaganda.
The second image is also not propaganda.
Do you even know what propaganda is because you've been drinking the kool-aid for months and at this point I'd be surprised if you even realized how much propaganda you've swallowed whole.[/QUOTE]
The first image is definitely pro-Bernie, it's saying that Hillary is a robotic corporate shill
Essentially all modern day political advertising is at least semi-propaganda.
You people have no idea what propaganda is
This is propaganda
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmfVs3WaE9Y[/media]
This is a (smug and obnoxious) political campaign [B]advertisement[/B].
[t]https://redditupvoted.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/bernieposter-e1453755857207.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=Tobin;50132955]The first image is definitely pro-Bernie, it's saying that Hillary is a robotic corporate shill[/QUOTE]
no I get that
it's just so bad at being whatever it is that it's trying to be, that it really just looks like an attack piece on the supposedly naive views of bernie voters.
it's too on the nose.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50132988]no I get that
it's just so bad at being whatever it is that it's trying to be, that it really just looks like an attack piece on the supposedly naive views of bernie voters.
it's too on the nose.[/QUOTE]
especially because they made Bernie the stoner
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50132769][t]http://i.imgur.com/vBJWane.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/wDj7XVs.jpg[/t]
[t]http://i.imgur.com/ZVWChvV.jpg[/t]
Definition of propaganda;[/QUOTE]
ohhh
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50132769]You need politicians to cause change. MLK was influential but in the end, it was the civil rights act that banned segregation.[/QUOTE]
[I]ohhhhhhh[/I]
can't even argue with ignorance like this
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=proboardslol;50132981]This is a (smug and obnoxious) political campaign [B]advertisement[/B].
[t]https://redditupvoted.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/bernieposter-e1453755857207.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
can i ask why people find stuff like this "smug and obnoxious"? because I read stuff like that a lot and i think it's really cynical.
especially considering that, even if you can't personally support the guy on everything or just overall, his campaign is the only one that could remotely be considered as having an ounce of humanity to it. and a lot of the stuff he fights for is pretty righteous.
don't get me wrong, constant advertisement gets tiresome and i culled some fb friends who were the stereotype of obnoxious bernie supporters, but i feel like this advert is the most benign thing.
[QUOTE=MissingNoGuy;50132845]I understand you don't like Bernie, and that's fine. Who do you think would be more qualified? Because it's quite clear you intend on voting someone else.[/QUOTE]
I'm not voting for a socialist Jew.
If you've talked to anyone who has lived under a socialist government, you'll find that it was shit. I'm the son of Soviet immigrants and they are strictly against any form of socialism because it destroyed our family, made our religion illegal, and caused damage to my family that will last for decades. While bernie's socialism isn't near soviet levels, it's still dangerous because of what it could lead to.
As a Israeli Jew, I'm firmly against Bernie. He talks about being a Jew but doesn't observe important Jewish cultural events like Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur. [URL="http://www.jta.org/2015/09/16/news-opinion/the-telegraph/bernie-sanders-gives-rosh-hashanah-speech-at-evangelical-university"]Instead of attending shul on Rosh Hashana, he goes to talk to evangelical Christians.[/URL]
He submits to the teachings of Pope Francis instead of Rabbis:
[QUOTE]Sanders added: "This is not Judasim. This is what Pope Francis is talking about -- that we cannot worship just billionaires and the making of more and more money. Life is more than that."[/QUOTE]
He invokes the Holocaust when it's convenient for him, using the death of European Judaism to promise a muslim that he would fight against Islamophobia.
[QUOTE]The Hill reported that “Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt.) on Wednesday invoked his ancestors’ deaths in Holocaust concentration camps as he embraced a Muslim student and promised to lead the fight against racism.”
“Let me be very personal if I might. I’m Jewish, my father’s family died in concentration camps,” Sanders said. “I will do everything that I can to rid this country of the ugly stain of racism that has existed for far too many years.”[/QUOTE]
However, when you actually look at the social media of the Muslim he was talking to, you get stuff like [URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/4it3O2I4Fz/"]this picture condemning modern Muslims for trusting non Muslims[/URL]. It gets worse when you realize that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with Hitler.
[URL="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mufti2.html"]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mufti2.html[/URL]
Bernie has stood by anti-semites like Louis Farrakhan and Khalid Muhammad
Louis Farrakhan has called Ashkenazim false Jews and said that the real Jews were black, even though there's plenty of evidence to the contrary:
[QUOTE]“If the white race is under the name Israel, where did the name Jew come from? Adam never said he was a
Jew. Abraham didn't say he was a Jew. Moses didn't say he was a Jew. The name Jew comes after Judah.
Hebrew is different. The original Hebrews look just like you. The original Hebrews are Black.”
[/QUOTE]
Khalid Muhammad had this written about him:
[QUOTE]Muhammad referred to Jews as people whose ancestors were cannibals who “crawled around on all fours in the caves and hills of Europe” and “slept in [their] urination and [their] defecation ... for 2,000 years.” He characterized contemporary Jews as “slumlords in the black community” who were busy “sucking our [blacks’] blood on a daily and consistent basis.” He said that Jews had provoked Adolf Hitler when they “went in there, in Germany, the way they do everywhere they go, and they supplanted, they usurped.” And he declared that blacks, in retribution against South African whites of the apartheid era, should “kill the women,…kill the children,…kill the babies,…kill the blind,…kill the crippled,…kill the faggot,…kill the lesbian,…kill them all.”[/QUOTE]
Bernie had no problem and even supported Al Sharpton after Sharpton called New York Hymietown or leading the pogrom of 1991.
Bernie's Jewish outreach person is pro BDS and strongly against Israel. Bernie isn't so strong on Israel himself, with his confusion on if Israel killed 10k civilians instead of the (likely inflated) right number of 1.4k people killed total in Gaza. He's contacted people like James Zogby for their views on Israel. James Zogby supports Hamas and Hezbollah while calling Israelis Nazis. He's also contacted people like Lawrence Wilkerson, who's accused Jews of dual loyalty.
People point out that Bernie spent time at a Kibbutz in Israel but fail to note that Kibbutz Sha'ar Ha'amakim was a Stalinist Kibbutz.
[QUOTE]Kibbutz Sha'ar Ha'amakim had been co-founded by Aharon Cohen, the Arabist, who was a regular critic of Israel and opponent of its policy. He was arrested for spying for the USSR in the 50s.
Its founder, Ya'akov Hazan, described the USSR as a second homeland and eulogized Stalin, writing how shocked he and his comrades were, "to hear of the terrible tragedy that has befallen the nations of the Soviet Union, the world proletariat and all of progressive mankind, upon the death of the great leader and extolled commander, Josef Vissarionovich Stalin. We lower our flag in grief in memory of the great revolutionary fighter, architect of socialist construction, and leader of the world's peace movement. His huge historical achievements will guide generations in their march towards the reign of socialism and communism the world over."
Al Hamishmar, the movement's paper, had a headline which read, "The Progressive World Mourns the Death of J.V. Stalin"[/QUOTE]
This Kibbutz was fucked up, especially considering Stalin's anti-Semitic views.
Bernie Sanders doesn't care about Jews or Israel, he cares only to advance himself at the expense of his people. No one can stab a Jew in the back like another Jew and that's why I'm not voting for Sanders. I'm leaning Trump because of his stance on Israel and his good relationship with the Jews, plus he's not a socialist.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50131185]I'm not saying that success in modern US politics makes you a good person, I'm saying that to be influential in the US, you have to get shit passed. This isn't about who is a good person and who isn't, it's about who is influential. A politician who doesn't get stuff passed is useless[/QUOTE]
Your missing the point. If you try to pass 100 bills and 80% pass but all are extremely mundane, "safe" bills, then who cares, thats normal. if you try to pass 100 bills that are more controversial and important, even if only 20% pass that 20% may have been much harder for you to push through than the 80% of the other guy.
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;50133080]ohhh
[I]ohhhhhhh[/I]
can't even argue with ignorance like this
[/QUOTE]
How is it ignorant? You're sitting there smugly putting down what I write without explaining how I am being ignorant. Could you tell me what my mistake is?
[QUOTE=Chaitin;50130909]What the...[/QUOTE]
I remember a south korean actor (dont remember his name, incredible attractive guy who starred in Speed Racer) who won this poll. I read a bit about it and apparently it is not uncommon for south korean personalities to get high number of votes for some bizarre reason.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133174]How is it ignorant? You're sitting there smugly putting down what I write without explaining how I am being ignorant. Could you tell me what my mistake is?[/QUOTE]
You talk about the soviet union and socialism, conveniently ignoring the fact that sanders invokes a Scandinavian model. Won't do a long reply on my phone, but yeah.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133166]I'm not voting for a socialist Jew.[/QUOTE]
There it is
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133166]I'm not voting for a socialist Jew.
If you've talked to anyone who has lived under a socialist government, you'll find that it was shit. I'm the son of Soviet immigrants and they are strictly against any form of socialism because it destroyed our family, made our religion illegal, and caused damage to my family that will last for decades. While bernie's socialism isn't near soviet levels, it's still dangerous because of what it could lead to.
As a Israeli Jew, I'm firmly against Bernie. He talks about being a Jew but doesn't observe important Jewish cultural events like Rosh Hashana or Yom Kippur. [URL="http://www.jta.org/2015/09/16/news-opinion/the-telegraph/bernie-sanders-gives-rosh-hashanah-speech-at-evangelical-university"]Instead of attending shul on Rosh Hashana, he goes to talk to evangelical Christians.[/URL]
He submits to the teachings of Pope Francis instead of Rabbis:
He invokes the Holocaust when it's convenient for him, using the death of European Judaism to promise a muslim that he would fight against Islamophobia.
However, when you actually look at the social media of the Muslim he was talking to, you get stuff like [URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/4it3O2I4Fz/"]this picture condemning modern Muslims for trusting non Muslims[/URL]. It gets worse when you realize that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with Hitler.
[URL="http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mufti2.html"]http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/mufti2.html[/URL]
Bernie has stood by anti-semites like Louis Farrakhan and Khalid Muhammad
Louis Farrakhan has called Ashkenazim false Jews and said that the real Jews were black, even though there's plenty of evidence to the contrary:
Khalid Muhammad had this written about him:
Bernie had no problem and even supported Al Sharpton after Sharpton called New York Hymietown or leading the pogrom of 1991.
Bernie's Jewish outreach person is pro BDS and strongly against Israel. Bernie isn't so strong on Israel himself, with his confusion on if Israel killed 10k civilians instead of the (likely inflated) right number of 1.4k people killed total in Gaza. He's contacted people like James Zogby for their views on Israel. James Zogby supports Hamas and Hezbollah while calling Israelis Nazis. He's also contacted people like Lawrence Wilkerson, who's accused Jews of dual loyalty.
People point out that Bernie spent time at a Kibbutz in Israel but fail to note that Kibbutz Sha'ar Ha'amakim was a Stalinist Kibbutz.
This Kibbutz was fucked up, especially considering Stalin's anti-Semitic views.
Bernie Sanders doesn't care about Jews or Israel, he cares only to advance himself at the expense of his people. No one can stab a Jew in the back like another Jew and that's why I'm not voting for Sanders. I'm leaning Trump because of his stance on Israel and his good relationship with the Jews, plus he's not a socialist.[/QUOTE]
So because bernie had contact with a few bad people that means he's anti-jew?
I mean he's said before hezbollah and hamas are terror groups.
If you ask me he's walking a perfectly straight line between not supporting isreal/palestine, because they're both countries that commit atrocities.
How can you come to the conclusion that he only wants to advance himself? He's 74, you think he's got a detailed plan for success?
[QUOTE=cody8295;50133320]So because bernie had contact with a few bad people that means he's anti-jew?
How can you come to the conclusion that he only wants to advance himself? He's 74, you think he's got a detailed plan for success?[/QUOTE]
Bernie Sanders having consistent contact with anti Semites and supporting an anti Semite for president is pretty concerning. People are willing to harass Trump over David Duke but no one is willing to talk about how Sanders works with anti-Semites.
Donald Trump is 69, do you think he has a detailed plan for success? Plans for success don't go away with age.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=GoDong-DK;50133258]You talk about the soviet union and socialism, conveniently ignoring the fact that sanders invokes a Scandinavian model. Won't do a long reply on my phone, but yeah.[/QUOTE]
The Nordic model involves countries with populations much smaller than the US and these same models are failing under the huge load that refugees are putting on it
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50133297]There it is[/QUOTE]
So? This isn't anti-Semitic, I'm Jewish as well
funny that you should mention you're a trump supporter and you're complaining about bernie showing propaganda
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/718268624012754944[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/716621438535471104[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/715636703369691136[/media]
if this isn't propaganda, by your definition, then I don't know what is.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133350]Bernie Sanders having consistent contact with anti Semites and supporting an anti Semite for president is pretty concerning. People are willing to harass Trump over David Duke but no one is willing to talk about how Sanders works with anti-Semites.
Donald Trump is 69, do you think he has a detailed plan for success? Plans for success don't go away with age.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
The Nordic model involves countries with populations much smaller than the US and these same models are failing under the huge load that refugees are putting on it
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
So? This isn't anti-Semitic, I'm Jewish as well[/QUOTE]
You can still be antiSemitic as a Jewish person.
You're also buying into whole sale lies about Bernie as a "socialist"
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133350]So? This isn't anti-Semitic, I'm Jewish as well[/QUOTE]
The point is that you're voting for him based on his religious background which is ridiculous.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50133381]funny that you should mention you're a trump supporter and you're complaining about bernie showing propaganda
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/718268624012754944[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/716621438535471104[/media]
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/715636703369691136[/media]
if this isn't propaganda, by your definition, then I don't know what is.[/QUOTE]
It is propaganda. So? I'm not complaining about bernie showing propaganda. Everyone does it. I was pointing out how people were saying that pro bernie propaganda wasn't propaganda
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50133399]You can still be antiSemitic as a Jewish person.
You're also buying into whole sale lies about Bernie as a "socialist"[/QUOTE]
I'm not being anti semitic. I'm not the one who is a self hating Jew that stands by while his allies say disgusting things about Jews. Also, it's still pretty concerning that he attended a Stalinist Kibbutz.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50133411]The point is that you're voting for him based on his religious background which is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
I'm voting based on how he treats his own people. If you reject your own people for your own gain, it shows a weakness that's significant.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133350]Bernie Sanders having consistent contact with anti Semites and supporting an anti Semite for president is pretty concerning. People are willing to harass Trump over David Duke but no one is willing to talk about how Sanders works with anti-Semites.
Donald Trump is 69, do you think he has a detailed plan for success? Plans for success don't go away with age.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
The Nordic model involves countries with populations much smaller than the US and these same models are failing under the huge load that refugees are putting on it
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
So? This isn't anti-Semitic, I'm Jewish as well[/QUOTE]
So do you think bernie is anti-semitic or anti-isreal?? I can't comprehend bernie being anti-semitic, he's held no formal policy positions indicating antisemitism, he's never made any comments that come off as antisimetic
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133413]Stalinist Kibbutz.
[/QUOTE]
Was it stalinist when he attended or before?
[QUOTE=cody8295;50133441]So do you think bernie is anti-semitic or anti-isreal?? I can't comprehend bernie being anti-semitic, he's held no formal policy positions indicating antisemitism, he's never made any comments that come off as antisimetic
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
Was it stalinist when he attended or before?[/QUOTE]
It was stalinist before. I'm saying that Bernie Sanders is against Israel. He's not anti Semitic himself but works closely with anti-Semites. He also doesn't actually act Jewish by not going to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. His supporting Pope Francis over our rabbis and only mentioning Judaism or the Holocaust when it's convenient for him is sketchy at best.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133479]It was stalinist before. I'm saying that Bernie Sanders is against Israel. He's not anti Semitic himself but works closely with anti-Semites. He also doesn't actually act Jewish by not going to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. His supporting Pope Francis over our rabbis and only mentioning Judaism or the Holocaust when it's convenient for him is sketchy at best.[/QUOTE]
This is kind of a creepy post. You sound incredibly exclusionary.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133413]It is propaganda. So? I'm not complaining about bernie showing propaganda. Everyone does it. I was pointing out how people were saying that pro bernie propaganda wasn't propaganda[/QUOTE]
No, you were pointing out about how Bernie was a cult of personality, look at your post. This was before people were saying that wasn't propaganda. Unless I missed a post, I can't seem to recall that people were saying it's not propaganda because it was Bernie Sanders.
Which brings me to another point about cult of personality. Trump is an even greater cult of personality than bernie. Look how much news time he gets, look how people cheer him on when he talks about anything (he doesn't even need to talk about politics), look at his slogan, look at his background as a reality tv star.
[media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68C7r1Fzn9g[/media]
Most of what Bill O'Reilly says is shit, I don't like him for it. Unfortunately, he's spot on at 3:12 and on when talking about how Trump and Sanders are the same. They both have a huge following because everyone is pissed off with the current system and/or world. They both know how to get a crowd going because they're both passionate about complex and worrying issues. This election will have the largest voter turnout because of it.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133479]It was stalinist before. I'm saying that Bernie Sanders is against Israel. He's [U]not anti Semitic[/U] himself but works closely with anti-Semites. He also doesn't actually act Jewish by not going to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur. His supporting Pope Francis over our rabbis and only mentioning Judaism or the Holocaust when it's convenient for him is sketchy at best.[/QUOTE]
Bernie has served in the house and senate, you can't really avoid anti-semitism there
And he's not a diehard jew, who cares?
if i had a shekel for every time a neoconservative jew says a leftist jew isn't a good enough jew...
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133413]I'm voting based on how he treats his own people. If you reject your own people for your own gain, it shows a weakness that's significant.[/QUOTE]
"his own people" are americans you drongo
nobody gives a fuck about his judaistic tendencies
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133413]It is propaganda. So? I'm not complaining about bernie showing propaganda. Everyone does it. I was pointing out how people were saying that pro bernie propaganda wasn't propaganda
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
I'm not being anti semitic. I'm not the one who is a self hating Jew that stands by while his allies say disgusting things about Jews. Also, it's still pretty concerning that he attended a Stalinist Kibbutz.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
I'm voting based on how he treats his own people. If you reject your own people for your own gain, it shows a weakness that's significant.[/QUOTE]
You're literally saying "he doesn't act jewish enough in a way that [B]I[/B] care about therefore he's not enough of a jew for me"
how the fuck isn't that anti-semetic?
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133166]I'm not voting for a socialist Jew.
If you've talked to anyone who has lived under a socialist government, you'll find that it was shit. I'm the son of Soviet immigrants and they are strictly against any form of socialism because it destroyed our family, made our religion illegal, and caused damage to my family that will last for decades. While bernie's socialism isn't near soviet levels, it's still dangerous because of what it could lead to.[/QUOTE]
boy you sure have no idea what socialism is
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50133580]You're literally saying "he doesn't act jewish enough in a way that [B]I[/B] care about therefore he's not enough of a jew for me"
how the fuck isn't that anti-semetic?[/QUOTE]
I think you're being a little too racially sensitive about his statement regarding bernie sanders as a jew. Sure his statement is dumb, but it's hardly antisemitic.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50133601]I think you're being a little too racially sensitive about his statement regarding bernie sanders as a jew. Sure his statement is dumb, but it's hardly antisemitic.[/QUOTE]
Maybe it's not anti-semetic directly but it's incredibly exclusionary, divisive, and needless.
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