[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50133610]Maybe it's not anti-semetic directly but it's incredibly exclusionary, divisive, and needless.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that is my point. It's a dumb statement, but avoid devaluing "antisemitism" as a word.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50133580]You're literally saying "he doesn't act jewish enough in a way that [B]I[/B] care about therefore he's not enough of a jew for me"
how the fuck isn't that anti-semetic?[/QUOTE]
What do you call someone who doesn't follow the traditions of their own culture? He doesn't act like a Jew, the only thing Jewish about him is the Brit and his blood.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aztec;50133492]This is kind of a creepy post. You sound incredibly exclusionary.[/QUOTE]
Right, so anyone who wants to be Jewish can say they are Jewish without actually doing the things that Jews do? To be Jewish you have to do certain things and Bernie isn't doing them. Even the most irreligious person goes to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, it's a cultural thing
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133648]Right, so anyone who wants to be Jewish can say they are Jewish without actually doing the things that Jews do? To be Jewish you have to do certain things and Bernie isn't doing them. Even the most irreligious person goes to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, it's a cultural thing[/QUOTE]
bernie is both racially and religiously jewish
these are objective facts, and that's all that you should need to know or care to know
from the sounds of it you would have him put on a fucking gps anklet so everyone can make sure he's being his jewiest at all times
Congratulations!
This means nothing.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133648]What do you call someone who doesn't follow the traditions of their own culture? He doesn't act like a Jew, the only thing Jewish about him is the Brit and his blood.
[/QUOTE]
The traditions of Christianity and Islam are extreme and violent, so I call those people that follow their religions tradition perfectly: terrorists.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133648]What do you call someone who doesn't follow the traditions of their own culture? He doesn't act like a Jew, the only thing Jewish about him is the Brit and his blood.[/QUOTE]
why do you think people should be defined by their cultures, mr. trump supporter?
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133648]
Right, so anyone who wants to be Jewish can say they are Jewish without actually doing the things that Jews do? To be Jewish you have to do certain things and Bernie isn't doing them. Even the most irreligious person goes to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, it's a cultural thing[/QUOTE]
Yeah nah, you're just wrong about this, and creepy. Stop being so exclusionary.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133648]What do you call someone who doesn't follow the traditions of their own culture? He doesn't act like a Jew, the only thing Jewish about him is the Brit and his blood.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
Right, so anyone who wants to be Jewish can say they are Jewish without actually doing the things that Jews do? To be Jewish you have to do certain things and Bernie isn't doing them. Even the most irreligious person goes to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, it's a cultural thing[/QUOTE]
Rabbinical Judaism maintains that a Jew, whether by birth or conversion, is a Jew forever. Thus a Jew who claims to be an atheist or converts to another religion is still considered by traditional Judaism to be Jewish.
It's also an ethnicity.
Jews don't have to meet your personal minimum jewiness to consider themselves jewish. Get over yourself.
svinnik is just some pro-trump reactionary grasping at straws to find ways to discredit bernie, and he settled on some bullshit about religion, like a true conservative
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;50133691]why do you think people should be defined by their cultures, mr. trump supporter?[/QUOTE]
When someone stabs their own ethnicreligious culture in the back by supporting a system of government that has traditionally hurt their people, that should be noted. Bernie shouldn't be defined by being Jewish but the way that he's treated his own culture should be a warning sign on how he acts
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133822]When someone stabs their own ethnicreligious culture in the back by supporting a system of government that has traditionally hurt their people, that should be noted. Bernie shouldn't be defined by being Jewish but the way that he's treated his own culture should be a warning sign on how he acts[/QUOTE]
OH he stabbed your entire culture in the back? How did he do that exactly? Are you sure this isn't some ridiculously exaggerated bullshit?
You hear "democratic socialism" and you go "NO IT'S ONLY SOCIALISM AND IT'S PURE EVIL". That's a level of disingenuous bullshit that no level of rational discussion will ever undo.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50133839]OH he stabbed your entire culture in the back? How did he do that exactly? Are you sure this isn't some ridiculously exaggerated bullshit?
You hear "democratic socialism" and you go "NO IT'S ONLY SOCIALISM AND IT'S PURE EVIL". That's a level of disingenuous bullshit that no level of rational discussion will ever undo.[/QUOTE]
What would you call a black person who spends his time with people who actively hate and insult black people, going so far as to endorse someone who has egged on a lynching? That's stabbing your own people in the back.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133868]What would you call a black person who spends his time with people who actively hate and insult black people, going so far as to endorse someone who has egged on a lynching? That's stabbing your own people in the back.[/QUOTE]
So he's advocated, matter of factly, for your entire ethnicity and religion, to be destroyed or are you just [B]massively fucking reaching[/B]
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;50133922]So he's advocated, matter of factly, for your entire ethnicity and religion, to be destroyed or are you just [B]massively fucking reaching[/B][/QUOTE]
I didn't say bernie himself advocated but he has supported people who have said things like
[QUOTE]“If the white race is under the name Israel, where did the name Jew come from? Adam never said he was a
Jew. Abraham didn't say he was a Jew. Moses didn't say he was a Jew. The name Jew comes after Judah.
Hebrew is different. The original Hebrews look just like you. The original Hebrews are Black.”[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Muhammad referred to Jews as people whose ancestors were cannibals who “crawled around on all fours in the caves and hills of Europe” and “slept in [their] urination and [their] defecation ... for 2,000 years.” He characterized contemporary Jews as “slumlords in the black community” who were busy “sucking our [blacks’] blood on a daily and consistent basis.” He said that Jews had provoked Adolf Hitler when they “went in there, in Germany, the way they do everywhere they go, and they supplanted, they usurped.” And he declared that blacks, in retribution against South African whites of the apartheid era, should “kill the women,…kill the children,…kill the babies,…kill the blind,…kill the crippled,…kill the faggot,…kill the lesbian,…kill them all.”
[/QUOTE]
Trump having a faint link to David Duke puts you guys in fits of outrage, so why aren't you outraged that Bernie Sanders has strong links to people who have said these things?
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133868]What would you call a black person who spends his time with people who actively hate and insult black people, going so far as to endorse someone who has egged on a lynching? That's stabbing your own people in the back.[/QUOTE]
Nearly all your arguments boil down to [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Association_fallacy#Guilt_by_association_as_an_ad_hominem_fallacy"]guilt by association[/URL].
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133166]I'm not voting for a socialist Jew.
If you've talked to anyone who has lived under a socialist government, you'll find that it was shit. I'm the son of Soviet immigrants and they are strictly against any form of socialism because it destroyed our family, made our religion illegal, and caused damage to my family that will last for decades. While bernie's socialism isn't near soviet levels, it's still dangerous because of what it could lead to.
[/quote]
Bernie is a socialist, these bad guys were socialists. Bernie is a bad guy.
[quote]He submits to the teachings of Pope Francis instead of Rabbis[/quote]
Bernie said some good things about Pope Francis. That means that Bernie believes and supports everything Pope Francis does. Do you seriously think Bernie supports a ban on contraception and abortion because he admires some of what the pope has said?
[Quote]
He invokes the Holocaust when it's convenient for him, using the death of European Judaism to promise a muslim that he would fight against Islamophobia.[/Quote]
If what he said really offended you that much, you got some thin fucking skin. Accusing him of invoking the holocaust seems like the new invoking-the-holocaust.
[quote]However, when you actually look at the social media of the Muslim he was talking to, you get stuff like [URL="https://www.instagram.com/p/4it3O2I4Fz/"]this picture condemning modern Muslims for trusting non Muslims[/URL]. It gets worse when you realize that the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem met with Hitler.[/quote]
The. same. shit. Guilt by association. Point out something Bernie has actually said or done because you are grasping at straws. So Bernie talks to someone and you bring up the fact that the person he was talking to posted something you didn't like? You're making no sense.
[quote]Bernie has stood by anti-semites like Louis Farrakhan and Khalid Muhammad[/quote]
When and where? If you literally meant stood by, he's standing right next to Hilary Clinton as I type this. I guess Bernie must agree with her and everything she's done by your logic.
[quote]Louis Farrakhan has called Ashkenazim false Jews and said that the real Jews were black, even though there's plenty of evidence to the contrary:
Khalid Muhammad had this written about him:[/quote]
Again, how in the hell is this relevant? Spell it out for me.
Holy shit I can't do any more of your post. I'd just be repeating myself.
[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;50133381]
[media]https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/716621438535471104[/media]
[/QUOTE]
Wow, this one is great. I can actually see Trump making this himself in paint
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133648]What do you call someone who doesn't follow the traditions of their own culture? He doesn't act like a Jew, the only thing Jewish about him is the Brit and his blood.
[/QUOTE]
By that logic, all Hong Kong Chinese are back stabbers because they don't follow the traditions of throwing away baby girls at birth, ignoring people who needs help and becoming hungry maniacs at the sight of shrimps like the Mainlanders.
It's tradition to stone people to death for being gay, but we don't, so does that makes all of us back stabbers?
Your argument is so stupid that it makes Trump looks like Einstein in comparison.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133648]What do you call someone who doesn't follow the traditions of their own culture? He doesn't act like a Jew, the only thing Jewish about him is the Brit and his blood.
[editline]14th April 2016[/editline]
Right, so anyone who wants to be Jewish can say they are Jewish without actually doing the things that Jews do? To be Jewish you have to do certain things and Bernie isn't doing them. Even the most irreligious person goes to shul on Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur, it's a cultural thing[/QUOTE]
clearly bernie is no true scotsman
It's kinda weird how all the trump supporters on this forum have been a similar level of dumb, argumentative, and reality-ignoring. I wonder if that might be some sort of trend in his voter base??
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50130922]The cult of personality is real here
Bernie isn't that influential. Pope Francis leads over a billion people, Yousafzai is a woman who is fighting for schools for women and has been shot for that, and Aung San Suu Kyi has been imprisoned for trying to bring democracy to Myanmar. In contrast, Bernie has only had 3 sponsored bills that became law, 2 of them to name post offices
[URL="https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q=%7B%22sponsorship%22%3A%22sponsored%22%2C%22bill-status%22%3A%22law%22%7D"]https://www.congress.gov/member/bernard-sanders/S000033?q=%7B%22sponsorship%22%3A%22sponsored%22%2C%22bill-status%22%3A%22law%22%7D[/URL][/QUOTE]
All of the public's choices are shit. I for one think that the most influential person is whoever's in charge of isis. They've forced Europe to partially accept turkey into the eu, forced most of Europe into high alert, pushed refugees and migrants across thousands of kilometers, put germany into a state where its leader has nothing but bad options on the table and destroyed thousands of years of history in their own country.
If that's not influential then what is?
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133166]I'm not voting for a socialist Jew.
[/QUOTE]
I keep seeing this everywhere and it pisses me off.
Bernie, Obama, etc are (or claim to be) Social Democrats, NOT Socialists.
Big difference.
the way some people see socialism as "literally soviet union" is really confusing to me.
i guess most of europe is like the soviet union then, never knew that my country was like that!
yeah can people stop pretending that the soviet union was ever a proper implementation of socialism?
it was more totalitarian than anything
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;50136471]yeah can people stop pretending that the soviet union was ever a proper implementation of socialism?
it was more totalitarian than anything[/QUOTE]
The Soviet Union was a very comprehensive implementation of socialism. When describing things as 'socialist', it's never good to look at just the socialism aspect. The Soviet Union, for most of its existence, had a heavily planned economy, which is not necessarily an attribute of socialism given that socialism can exist in a market economy. And yes then there's the fact that the Soviet Union was totalitarian, but that's not a necessary attribute of socialism either.
I'm not even defending socialism, I study at a business and law school and I identify as right-wing, but the confusion around some terms is a bit annoying. It's very annoying how many Americans, not necessarily you, don't really understand what socialism or communism actually are.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50133822]When someone stabs their own ethnicreligious culture in the back by supporting a system of government that has traditionally hurt their people, that should be noted. Bernie shouldn't be defined by being Jewish but the way that he's treated his own culture should be a warning sign on how he acts[/QUOTE]
So the capitalists that hurts their own people are the ones that should be in charge?
As far as I remember, one of the first things that Bernie did as senator was to pick up trash with the people. Out of all the candidates, Bernie is the most "for the people" one.
He even lives in the country that, as far as I know, is supposed to be as multicultural as can be.
[QUOTE=gokiyono;50136837]So the capitalists that hurts their own people are the ones that should be in charge?
As far as I remember, one of the first things that Bernie did as senator was to pick up trash with the people. Out of all the candidates, Bernie is the most "for the people" one.
He even lives in the country that, as far as I know, is supposed to be as multicultural as can be.[/QUOTE]
There's no easy answer for if capitalists should be in charge or socialists and I'd need a degree in economics to even start on that question but I'm worried that the mild socialism that Bernie is advocating might lead to worse forms of socialism.
[editline]15th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;50133663]bernie is both racially and religiously jewish
these are objective facts, and that's all that you should need to know or care to know
from the sounds of it you would have him put on a fucking gps anklet so everyone can make sure he's being his jewiest at all times[/QUOTE]
Bernie is racially Jewish but not religiously Jewish. I'm not asking for him to act like a Haredi Jew but I'm pointing out that he's willing to reject his own culture for political gain which is concerning. He only talks about the Holocaust or being Jewish when it's convenient for him while not acting like a member of his culture.
[editline]15th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Aztec;50133695]Yeah nah, you're just wrong about this, and creepy. Stop being so exclusionary.[/QUOTE]
How am I wrong about this? I'm a practicing member of the religion and heavily involved in the culture but apparently I'm wrong because you say so?
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50136869]Bernie is racially Jewish but not religiously Jewish.[/QUOTE]
bernie says he considers himself jewish, and therefore he is jewish, and i don't see your logic in thinking you have the right to make that determination for him, or any other human being
[QUOTE=sb27;50136752]The Soviet Union was a very comprehensive implementation of socialism. When describing things as 'socialist', it's never good to look at just the socialism aspect. The Soviet Union, for most of its existence, had a heavily planned economy, which is not necessarily an attribute of socialism given that socialism can exist in a market economy. And yes then there's the fact that the Soviet Union was totalitarian, but that's not a necessary attribute of socialism either.
I'm not even defending socialism, I study at a business and law school and I identify as right-wing, but the confusion around some terms is a bit annoying. It's very annoying how many Americans, not necessarily you, don't really understand what socialism or communism actually are.[/QUOTE]
I agree, it's a big source of frustration and hopefully I can clarify what I meant a bit. What I'm saying is that if you look at socialism as an ideology to be implemented with good will, good intentions for the people, the result (like those in Europe) is not at all like the result of socialism implemented by a totalitarian government.
And I think that's the differentiation that people who are entrenched in a warped view of socialism are unwilling to make. That socialism doesn't have to, and in its pure form could never come with the baggage of totalitarianism. That the Soviet Union was a bastardization of everything that a humanist, socialist ideology would stand for.
Side note on not understanding communism, but very much related to the above. Back in high school I had a crazy AP (Advanced Placement, gives you college credit if you do well, for any unfamiliar peeps outside america) US history teacher. The irrational hyperconservative type. When learning about communism, I made a point to ask her one time, "What would you say is the difference between the Communist Manifesto as it was written, and China's implementation of "communism"?"
Her answer was, "Nothing." And she walked off.
Too many people are stuck in the McCarthyist era thinking. Are unwilling to separate horrible, inhumane implementations of economic policy, from what I just shorthand referred to as "proper implementation." An implementation that strives to be good and for the people.
[QUOTE=Svinnik;50136869]There's no easy answer for if capitalists should be in charge or socialists and I'd need a degree in economics to even start on that question but I'm worried that the mild socialism that Bernie is advocating might lead to worse forms of socialism.[/QUOTE]
tell me what you consider to be "worse forms of socialism" please, and we'll see if you're making flawed false correlations with authoritarianism
[editline]15th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=DOG-GY;50136904]And I think that's the differentiation that people who are entrenched in a warped view of socialism are unwilling to make. That socialism doesn't have to, and in its pure form could never come with the baggage of totalitarianism. That the Soviet Union was a bastardization of everything that a humanist, socialist ideology would stand for.[/QUOTE]
fucking stalin ruined everything
[QUOTE=Lord of Ears;50136899]bernie says he considers himself jewish, and therefore he is jewish, and i don't see your logic in thinking you have the right to make that determination for him, or any other human being[/QUOTE]
You do realize that being Jewish is an ethnic and religious thing? You can be ethnically Jewish without being religious. However, even the ethnic Jews without any connection to the religion do some religious things because it's integrated into the culture. There is absolutely no way for Bernie Sanders to be a religious Jew without going to a shul for Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur.
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