Warren Spector: If Publishers Didn't Overcharge For Games People Wouldn't Have To Buy Them Used
66 replies, posted
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;41065498]who buys games from JB-HIFI lmfao[/QUOTE]
maybe it's just where i live but they're one of the better brick and mortar retailers
(legitimate question) what other worthwhile brick and mortar stores exist for videogames?
I wouldn't be surprised (and actually wouldn't mind much) if this means a shift toward smaller game studios. Most AAA games put so much effort into cinematics and promotions and other presentation-related fluff that it leaves us with games that are pretty-looking, but have pretty bland gameplay that has to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
I think developers need to shift away from more polygons, higher-resolution textures, and complex motion-capture professionally-voice-acted cutscenes. Sure, technology is improving so that we CAN have more polygons and all that shit, but that just means more time and effort is required for games that try to get the most out of that shit, and in the end means an even more expensive product for consumers who are basically just paying for a lot of lens flare and water effects.
I gravitate a lot more toward indie games lately, because they tend to be going back to basics. Re-visiting older genres like platformers and RPGs, and trying new things with them. Just trying all kinds of crazy shit so that their game stands out from the crowd. Not to mention the fact that they're making cheaper products. I'd rather see some kind of unique physics simulation or a creative blend of genres than all the HD FMV cutscenes in the world.
imagine if they charged $10 for BF3 on release, they would have made like quadruple the revenue that MW3 made that year. I don't understand why valve is the only developer who allows logic to be used in any of their decisions.
Warren Spector is partially right, but he's not considering the cold hard fact that many people buy used games because they are looking for the cheapest price possible.
If a shop sells a new game for $40 and a nearly identical used game for $30, which would you believe to be the bestseller among the frugal crowd?
Shops will find a way to turn a higher profit no matter the difficulty. Making games cheaper will lead to more sales, but it doesn't quite translate into more people buying new copies of a game.
[QUOTE=Cutthecrap;41064802]Good god, wasn't the law of demand and offer taught in first year of econ?
WTF is wrong with the world these days?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I'm pretty certain it is taught. Pretty certain that the Iron Law of Wages is discussed as well, which is what this is effectively an adaptation of, only instead of it being an employer-employee model, it's a provider-customer model.
The reason companies charge so damn much money is because people are willing to pay it. The Iron Law of Wages dictates that you pay your employees less and less until the point they no longer return to work, and then you pay them the amount just above the leaving point - this model dictates that you charge your customers more and more until they point they no longer are willing to pay, and then you charge them the amount just below that leaving point.
I wouldn't be surprised if, over the next few years, we see the price for retail games climb into the $70+USD range. And the prices will just continue to climb because there will be people willing to pay them.
Yeah, none of us like paying that much for a game, but that's how much games have always cost. If anything they're actually cheaper now than ever before (if you count just the game and not all the gimmicky tacked on bullshit day one crap)
1980, a video game would set you back $30. That's about $90 in today's money. The Sega Genesis' games ran from $30 to $50. $50 in 1992 is $80 today
People buy used games because it's cheaper, simple as that. Anyone who wants to play a game on day 1 is still going to buy it new
[QUOTE=Hamsterjuice;41065594]maybe it's just where i live but they're one of the better brick and mortar retailers
(legitimate question) what other worthwhile brick and mortar stores exist for videogames?[/QUOTE]
Really depends where I can snatch a bargain, sometimes dick smith, sometimes EB, I don't have too many options near me. If the game is small (<3GB) I just buy from steam, I really hate going over my 100gb monthly quota because it affects the whole family
Games are expensive to make and profit needs to be made but Steam makes exceptional sales by offering exceptional prices.
Having a game sit at high prices forever is absurd and just encourages people to buy used.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;41064842]stop buying physical copies and eventually the retail market will die, which will lead to cheaper digital games (at the expense of mom and pop stores also dying :( )[/QUOTE]
Good riddance to the mom and pop stores honestly. They're just as bad as Gamestop when it comes to paying people a dollar for a trade-in and selling the same exact disk for $40.
[QUOTE=Alex_DeLarge;41066138]Good riddance to the mom and pop stores honestly. They're just as bad as Gamestop when it comes to paying people a dollar for a trade-in and selling the same exact disk for $40.[/QUOTE]And? At least the option is there.
Call of duty game prices are so ridiculous it isn't funny.
[editline]17th June 2013[/editline]
I mean seriously, look at the price of mw2 and black ops 1 & 2
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/y7ESWou.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Brt5470;41064683]In many ways, the profit margins they manage on brand new releases [B][I]I'm sure allow them to do those insane deals later in the year.[/I][/B][/QUOTE]
I love you man, u so funny.
30€ is the most I will pay for a new game. After a few months used games get reasonably priced but then of course you can't really talk about them anymore.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;41064839]
Or you could get a 3DS, only about $50-60 and the games are just as good.[/QUOTE]
yeah, unless you want something else than a remake of super mario or pokemon.
[QUOTE=isnipeu;41066828]Call of duty game prices are so ridiculous it isn't funny.
[editline]17th June 2013[/editline]
I mean seriously, look at the price of mw2 and black ops 1 & 2
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/y7ESWou.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I like how the Mac version of Black Ops is $40 cheaper than the regular version, and MW3 is $50 cheaper than MW2
to be fair, the main reason they can get away with this, is cause unfortunately, most gamers are dumb with money, and i mean DUMBER than the average person that likes movies, music or whatever, sure several gamers like to think of themselves as smart or whatever, but god we tend to be awfully stupid with money as a general rule.
the fact that DLC exists in its current form(buy horse armor/whatever insane trinket they wanna add for $5-10).
that a game that can be finished in 4-6 hours can be sold at $50+.
that f2p(p2w) MMOs make enough money(due to insane people spending ludicrous ammounts of money in it), and people that actually DEFEND that.
all this is beyond stupid.
in a perfect world, most top games would be $25 dollars at most.($30-35 for those that had ridiculously high ammont of content).
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41066130]Games are expensive to make and profit needs to be made but Steam makes exceptional sales by offering exceptional prices.
Having a game sit at high prices forever is absurd and just encourages people to buy used.[/QUOTE]
which means other companies should copy steam, since selling at a cheaper price means FAR more people will buy it.
but this isn't about making money only, is about creating the stupid idea that you're selling something better than it actually is, thats why they keep putting prices higher.
Someone tell steam this. I have junk i dont want in my steam list, infact i made a category for them so i dont have to see them in my game list.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;41066094]things in different regions are priced differently according to the median income of the target audience
its the reason why different parts of america have higher and lower wages and prices
they may have the same currency, but the retailers have to keep up with it in order to sell the product most efficiently (number of costumers x price)
basically, they price it at $100 because they know aussies can afford it
on the other hand, they price russian games at around $20 because of the shit economy and piracy issues[/QUOTE]
I have never saw a game priced differently because of the local income rate and they charge aussies that much because they can.
[QUOTE=TheTalon;41065895]Yeah, none of us like paying that much for a game, but that's how much games have always cost. If anything they're actually cheaper now than ever before (if you count just the game and not all the gimmicky tacked on bullshit day one crap) 1980, a video game would set you back $30. That's about $90 in today's money. The Sega Genesis' games ran from $30 to $50. $50 in 1992 is $80 today People buy used games because it's cheaper, simple as that. Anyone who wants to play a game on day 1 is still going to buy it new[/QUOTE]
I specifically remember in England at least during PS2 era that games cost significantly less than they do now. No idea about the US or elsewhere but the change in price was very noticeable for me.
I know genesis era stuff was around the same price as it is now but I know for a fact ps1/ps2 era had much cheaper prices in my country.
[QUOTE=isnipeu;41066828]Call of duty game prices are so ridiculous it isn't funny.
[editline]17th June 2013[/editline]
I mean seriously, look at the price of mw2 and black ops 1 & 2
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/y7ESWou.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Call of Duty 4 should be $10 now
What the fuck are they even DOING
It came out in 2007, same year as Halo 3, they are literally giving out Halo 3 for nothing now
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;41065961]Really depends where I can snatch a bargain, sometimes dick smith, sometimes EB, I don't have too many options near me. If the game is small (<3GB) I just buy from steam, I really hate going over my 100gb monthly quota because it affects the whole family[/QUOTE]
jb is one of the best near me actually
they often have cheap-ish new games, like $40-$60
dick smith is sometimes ok, but their selection is shit, and eb is outright retarded
[editline]17th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=RichyZ;41066094]things in different regions are priced differently according to the median income of the target audience
its the reason why different parts of america have higher and lower wages and prices
they may have the same currency, but the retailers have to keep up with it in order to sell the product most efficiently (number of costumers x price)
basically, they price it at $100 because they know aussies can afford it
on the other hand, they price russian games at around $20 because of the shit economy and piracy issues[/QUOTE]
that's actually completely false
you're basing that off the [I]minimum wage[/I], do you really think the rest of the wages magically scale up because of that?
the average australian earns no more than the average american
I've bought very few games when they come out. STALKER and Valve games I usually preorder or wait for sales.
Jseus Christ, you lot know how to freaking complain about games and salaries, come to God damn middle-east or Eastern Europe and look at their salaries, here in Jordan the minimum wage is $200, what the fuck, and games cost like $95, get over yourselves.
[QUOTE=EpikMonster;41067977]in Jordan the minimum wage is $200, what the fuck, and games cost like $95, get over yourselves.[/QUOTE]
The fact that they overcharge in Jordan doesn't justify overcharging for games anywhere, I'm not sure what you're trying to prove.
what do you Americans have to complain about
I bought donkey kong country returns pre owned, two years after release for 80 dollars
Such is life down under
[QUOTE=Vasili;41064621]I still find it laughable they try to charge you the same price for a digital copy of a game on programs like Steam. I'm not paying £39.99 for a non physical copy of a game.[/QUOTE]
Publishers "have" to make prices equally high because otherwise retailers get upset and refuse to stock their games - and not everyone wants to rely solely on digital distribution.
The reason all these games cost so much is because the companies are publicly traded.
As publicly traded companies, they have an obligation to make as much money as possible, with as little risk as possible, and it's the CEOs responsibility to make sure that happens.
If he takes unnecessary risk or doesn't make enough money, he's sacked in favour of the next guy, hired in from a car company (or whatever) who thinks he can do it better. It's easier to release tried-and-true Call of Duty/ FIFA year after year, at a proven price point, than it is to come up with any original IP, because that's costly and carries potential risk.
The days of original IP are over, at least from a mass-marketed commercial standpoint. Sure there might be minor deviations and 1-ups here and there - but nothing major, because new ideas like that are risky.
Think about how original and awesome The Sims was when it came out, it was fucking excellent. Now, 3 games later (and countless DLCs), Will Wright has nothing to do with it anymore, it's not his IP any longer and he no longer works for Maxis (Which is now just an offshoot EA studio, I doubt any of the original crew work there anymore) or EA. He has his own new studio specifically to make creative titles. I think he'll think twice before selling his IP now, or publishing through one of the major publishers again, cause even though it was indeed profitable - look at what it is now - an absolute monstrosity of DLC and mobile spin-offs. An embarrassment to anyone who truly likes games.
As for the shareholders who invest in the 'game development studios' - they don't give a fuck about games either. They just care about money, and anything digital is big right now. I doubt the great majority of the shareholders in the game industry (aside from Gabe) have any interest in games at all, or have ever played one - they just see it as another profitable venture to put their money into, to get dividends, or sell later at higher price.
Yes, it's shitty, but that's how corporations work. No interest or passion in games, solely interest in $$$s to fill their pockets. Too much money to practically do anything with.
[QUOTE=SCopE5000;41068369]The reason all these games cost so much is because the companies are publicly traded.
As publicly traded companies, they have an obligation to make as much money as possible, with as little risk as possible, and it's the CEOs responsibility to make sure that happens.
If he takes unnecessary risk or doesn't make enough money, he's sacked in favour of the next guy, hired in from a car company (or whatever) who thinks he can do it better. It's easier to release tried-and-true Call of Duty/ FIFA year after year, at a proven price point, than it is to come up with any original IP, because that's costly and carries potential risk.
The days of original IP are over, at least from a mass-marketed commercial standpoint. Sure there might be minor deviations and 1-ups here and there - but nothing major, because new ideas like that are risky.
Think about how original and awesome The Sims was when it came out, it was fucking excellent. Now, 3 games later (and countless DLCs), Will Wright has nothing to do with it anymore, it's not his IP any longer and he no longer works for Maxis (Which is now just an offshoot EA studio, I doubt any of the original crew work there anymore) or EA. He has his own new studio specifically to make creative titles. I think he'll think twice before selling his IP now, or publishing through one of the major publishers again, cause even though it was indeed profitable - look at what it is now - an absolute monstrosity of DLC and mobile spin-offs. An embarrassment to anyone who truly likes games.
As for the shareholders who invest in the 'game development studios' - they don't give a fuck about games either. They just care about money, and anything digital is big right now. I doubt the great majority of the shareholders in the game industry (aside from Gabe) have any interest in games at all, or have ever played one - they just see it as another profitable venture to put their money into, to get dividends, or sell later at higher price.
Yes, it's shitty, but that's how corporations work. No interest or passion in games, solely interest in $$$s to fill their pockets. Too much money to practically do anything with.[/QUOTE]
Sell stocks only when bundled with CD keys to current game line-up.
I find the pricing of videogames fucking ridiculous. Even 10 years ago when a new title was £30, it's a lot of money. If it weren't for the fact that we used to shop at car boot sales, I'd have had about 3 games
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