• Hold onto your butts, this is gonna get hairy - Eurogamer announces their "GOTY"
    147 replies, posted
"In the end, there's no penalty for doing bad and there's no difficulty to the game. These old games that these retro-style indie platformers are trying to replicate had these things. They had difficulty, they had challenge, they had a reason to keep playing. These indie games that are supposed to be mimicking and tributing these games don't have any of that. Instead they're focused on being art" -- TheBestGamers review. Yeah, thebestgamers might be meant to be a parody, but this quote from their Fez review sums up a lot of indie games extremely well.
[QUOTE=mastermaul;39028603]Watch Indie Game the Movie on Netflix or something to get a good idea of what everyone is talking about when they say pretentious. Though to be honest i've never played Fez and am genuinely interested. The art style and level design looks good at least.[/QUOTE] I watched that movie and instantly stopped caring when one of the devs became a douchebag and started calling games like COD and Halo "shit" Bitch please, because he clearly can do a better job at games like that.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;39028614]related as fuck [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Ifue2xGFY[/media][/QUOTE] rip in peace tbg ;_; they were and still are the best videogames reviewers
[QUOTE=Aiksey;39029367]rip in peace tbg ;_; they were and still are the best videogames reviewers[/QUOTE] loudhouse.vg is made by (some of) the same people.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;39028614]related as fuck [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Ifue2xGFY[/media][/QUOTE] as said in TBG, Fez is shitty and beyond overrated. [QUOTE=SmashJonXD;39028734]Seriously any game where you can't die or lose is dumb, I'm looking at you Bioshock and Fable.[/QUOTE] are you really this dumb lmao, totally disregarding all the content of the game because of that purely? Bioshock still presents and actual challange, as does fable, and enough so to have the (good) story very effectively told. (You can turn chambers off in Bioshock BTW) Fez has none of those qualities at all, it's [U]pretentious [/U]as FUCK.
[QUOTE=ac/14;39029379]loudhouse.vg is made by (some of) the same people.[/QUOTE] yeah but they're on hold and not really living up to TBG yet imo [editline]30th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=J!NX;39029391] are you really this dumb lmao, totally disregarding all the content of the game because of that purely? Bioshock still presents and actual challange, as does fable, and enough so to have the (good) story very effectively told. (You can turn chambers off in Bioshock BTW) Fez has none of those qualities at all, it's [U]pretentious [/U]as FUCK.[/QUOTE] why are you throwing insults around for no reason? games with no penalties for death lose a lot of gameplay value, that's all. It doesn't mean they're entirely bad - it's just dumb most of the time
[QUOTE=Sokrates;39028602]Holy shit look at the scores[/QUOTE] "It's okay"
Playing Fez felt like reading a children's book that was hyped as all hell because it "reminds you of your childhood" and it's so "deep and artistic" and if you don't "understand" it it's because you're a philistine But in the end it's just a fucking children's book that's less meaningful than The Hungry Caterpillar and that took 5 years to write [editline]30th December 2012[/editline] Covering shit in diarrhea frosting of pretentiousness doesn't make it good
[QUOTE=Aiksey;39029458]yeah but they're on hold and not really living up to TBG yet imo [editline]30th December 2012[/editline] why are you throwing insults around for no reason? games with no penalties for death lose a lot of gameplay value, that's all. It doesn't mean they're entirely bad - it's just dumb most of the time[/QUOTE] How do these games lose any gameplay value? I want you to give an actual reason, not that it's "dumb". When you die in a game, you basically lose your progress and start again. How is that good or any kind of value? On any level? Infact, on a pure gameplay sense, how is it any value? Does the awesome fun gameplay of a game somehow get factored by what happens when your HP hits 0? If you're having so much fun, shooting guys and kicking people's faces open, do those gameplay elements, somehow suffer by not dying? Does a classic retro game like Contra somehow get better, if you go to a GAMEOVER screen instead of continuing? Does DOOM get any better if it says GAME OVER instead of picking you back up? Do these games gain anything, besides making the player lose progress? And hell, as we're on old games. I want you to go play some NES ones I grew up with. Because typically you had a limited number of lives, and either no continues, or a very limited amount. After that? You lost everything. Is this really in any way, a sort of value to the game? Besides taking your controller away for not being good enough and basically slapping the hands of players who aren't as good? That isn't challenge, that is game-padding and its how old games felt longer. Because you kept replaying parts you sucked at.
Yea well PC Gamer's GOTY was ME3
[QUOTE=Scot;39029546]Yea well PC Gamer's GOTY was ME3[/QUOTE] So? Its a legitimately good game and the endings have been dealt with. Even if you didn't like them, you would have to be a spoiled child to throw away 99% of the product you just paid for, and its multiplayer to boot.
[QUOTE=fruxodaily;39028614]related as fuck [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8Ifue2xGFY[/media][/QUOTE] He really got those pretetious fucks in the Fez :v:
[QUOTE=doommarine23;39029567]So? Its a legitimately good game and the endings have been dealt with. Even if you didn't like them, you would have to be a spoiled child to throw away 99% of the product you just paid for, and its multiplayer to boot.[/QUOTE] I never said it sucked, but you cannot say that it's GOTY.
modern day video gaming sucks everything about it playerbase, industry, standards [editline]a[/editline] FUCK
[QUOTE=Scot;39029642]I never said it sucked, but you cannot say that it's GOTY.[/QUOTE] I can definitely say its GOTY. You want to know why? Because GOTY is a subjective opinion of the person you ask.
Fez has a really charming art style, but the gameplay gets old fast for me, it's like Super Paper Mario all over again.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;39029537]How do these games lose any gameplay value? I want you to give an actual reason, not that it's "dumb". When you die in a game, you basically lose your progress and start again. How is that good or any kind of value? On any level? Infact, on a pure gameplay sense, how is it any value? Does the awesome fun gameplay of a game somehow get factored by what happens when your HP hits 0? If you're having so much fun, shooting guys and kicking people's faces open, do those gameplay elements, somehow suffer by not dying? Does a classic retro game like Contra somehow get better, if you go to a GAMEOVER screen instead of continuing? Does DOOM get any better if it says GAME OVER instead of picking you back up? Do these games gain anything, besides making the player lose progress? And hell, as we're on old games. I want you to go play some NES ones I grew up with. Because typically you had a limited number of lives, and either no continues, or a very limited amount. After that? You lost everything. Is this really in any way, a sort of value to the game? Besides taking your controller away for not being good enough and basically slapping the hands of players who aren't as good? That isn't challenge, that is game-padding and its how old games felt longer. Because you kept replaying parts you sucked at.[/QUOTE] I wasn't really asking for Game Over stuff, but a good example for cool death mechanics would be Diablo 2. in D2 when playing on normal, death takes more and more money from you. Once you get to Hell difficulty, you lose gold, experience (you literally level down) and other stuff. It makes you think "this does not work. I must get better gear, rethink my strategy, etc" In short, it gives death a GREAT gameplay value. It's something you must take into account and when you die, you literally say "OH SHIT, NO." In Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver (because we're on topic of old games huh), if you die in the real world, you get transported to the world of the dead. You must fight and eat the souls of the enemies you fight to refill your "health" bar thingie. once it's full, you can go to a portal and go back to the world of the living. It's another example of an original, challenging death mechanic. In Fez, you instant respawn. It doesn't tell you you're doing something wrong, you don't learn anything, you don't have to CARE. Just like, you know, Call of Duty. But I do agree with bits of your post, and although I think it doesn't remove gameplay value from Bioshock, it certainly does with some other games like Fez who push it to the limit.
[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;39029657]modern day video gaming sucks everything about it playerbase, industry, standards[/QUOTE] Players will always be what they are. They're just society and society is what it is. Industry is unavoidable. Games like ME2 were around 50 million dollars, GTA4 was over 100 million. It's a big business and it's unavoidable. Either games are obscure indie/hobby things, or a thriving cultural and industry power house. There can't be any other way. Because the moment games are shown to be successful money making machines. People will hop on it. Standards? Games are fine [editline]30th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Aiksey;39029690]I wasn't really asking for Game Over stuff, but a good example for cool death mechanics would be Diablo 2. in D2 when playing on normal, death takes more and more money from you. Once you get to Hell difficulty, you lose gold, experience (you literally level down) and other stuff. It makes you think "this does not work. I must get better gear, rethink my strategy, etc" In short, it gives death a GREAT gameplay value. It's something you must take into account and when you die, you literally say "OH SHIT, NO." In Legacy of Kain: Soul Reaver (because we're on topic of old games huh), if you die in the real world, you get transported to the world of the dead. You must fight and eat the souls of the enemies you fight to refill your "health" bar thingie. once it's full, you can go to a portal and go back to the world of the living. It's another example of an original, challenging death mechanic. In Fez, you instant respawn. It doesn't tell you you're doing something wrong, you don't learn anything, you don't have to CARE. Just like, you know, Call of Duty. But I do agree with bits of your post, and although I think it doesn't remove gameplay value from Bioshock, it certainly does with some other games like Fez who push it to the limit.[/QUOTE] Sure, I can understand that, and it sounds interesting in those games. But at the same time, we both know that majority of games, its simply "Game-Over", than you reload your old progress and simply do the same thing over and over again. Its not the fault of COD, or any other game, because it's a staple of video-games. But at the same time, while Diablo's is interesting, it still has the same problem with making you lose levels. You're basically punishing me for doing "bad" or "wrong" in your game or not being good enough. You're forcing me to restart and lose progress in the things I have done. I will say, its not as extreme in Diablo. But in majority of games, yet again, it's a simple game over. Why should a game take my controller away, and than set me back 20-30 minutes, possibly hours? That's no fun, that's like rewinding a movie and watching that same part over and over. Espiscally if the game is just too goddamn hard, or is one of those games you can't fuck up once. Hitman Codename 47 is a great example, awesome game, but if you slip up? Your mission is basically failed and you can easily lose 20+ minutes of progress, have to restart again, and do the same parts you already mastered, over, and over, and over again. It causes nothing but frustration and pads out the game. So don't get me wrong, I agree, games should do something when you die. But it should be cool and feel like a part of the game. It shouldn't feel like I'm being punished or wasting 30+ minutes of progress.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;39029693]Standards?[/QUOTE] pretty much
[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;39029728]pretty much[/QUOTE] You ignored the rest of my post in order to fit your opinion. Games are fine and totally are playable. Nothing is really wrong with the games coming out these days. They work, they're functional, and they're good damn fun. By the way, games in the past had the same problems. I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm sorry. Games back than were a business. It always was, and always will be.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;39029742]Games are fine and totally are playable. Nothing is really wrong with the games coming out these days. They work, they're functional, and they're good damn fun.[/QUOTE] can we bond over our mutual subjective opinions? because i spot one right there ^ actually a whole BUNCH of em
Here's my opinion on the matter:[B] if we wanna name these little indie games as GOTY, that's fine, but then they need to be held to some of the same standards as other titles. [/B] I'm not talking about production values of course, but stuff like plot and gameplay. If a AAA title's story has plot holes or doesn't make sense (MGS2, ME3) reviewers and the community tear it apart. But when Braid's story was confusing and didn't make sense, people went crazy over it talking about how it was so intellectual and mysterious. We've gotta stop commending indie games for doing the exact same things for which we criticize larger games.
[QUOTE=Corporal Yippie;39029779]can we bond over our mutual subjective opinions? because i spot one right there ^ actually a whole BUNCH of em[/QUOTE] Um, sure. Just to clarify I didn't really have a problem with you man. We just have different opinions.
Never heard of Fez.
[QUOTE=doommarine23;39029567]So? Its a legitimately good game and the endings have been dealt with. Even if you didn't like them, you would have to be a spoiled child to throw away 99% of the product you just paid for, and its multiplayer to boot.[/QUOTE] Multiplayer does not make a game good. You, and the entire fucking industry, need to figure that one out. ME3's MP is a particularly annoying son of a bitch in this regard, because if you don't grind the shit out of the multiplayer you can't get the best singleplayer ending, AND it's constantly harassing you to play said multiplayer the entire time you play SP. Worst part? In a few months, when EA inevitably cans the servers that power the server browser, that MP will be completely dead. Which means you won't be able to get the best, and likely canon, ending. EA's not gonna patch the game to remove the requirement of grinding the MP, either, they'll just tell you to fuck off and that's that. So yeah, MP is hurting ME3 quite a bit. Because of that alone I wouldn't even put ME3 on an honorable mentions list, let alone call it GOTY. It'd be heading up a "Game with the most terrible design choices" and "Games ruined by features that didn't need to be there" contest, though. [QUOTE=doommarine23;39029742]They work, [B]they're functional, [/B]and they're good damn fun..[/QUOTE] New Vegas, Saint's Row 2, Saint's Row 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 3 just called...
[QUOTE=TestECull;39029859]New Vegas, Saint's Row 2, Saint's Row 3, Oblivion, Skyrim, and Fallout 3 just called...[/QUOTE] New Vegas + 3 has had most of it's issues fixed, and the shoddy PS3 versions can have half of the blame to the console itself.
[QUOTE]Hold onto your butts, this is gonna get hairy[/QUOTE] My butt is already hairy
I hope it comes to Steam eventually, it looks kinda cool. Hopefully the devs are smart eno- [quote] “Fez is a console game, not a PC game,” he states, emphatically. “It’s made to be played with a controller, on a couch, on a Saturday morning. To me, that matters; that’s part of the medium.” I get so many comments shouting at me that I’m an idiot for not making a PC version. ‘You’d make so much more money! Can’t you see? Meatboy sold more on Steam!’ Good for them. But this matters more to me than sales or revenue. It’s a console game on a console. End of story.”[/quote] Welp.
[QUOTE=TestECull;39029859] In a few months, when EA inevitably cans the servers that power the server browser, that MP will be completely dead. Which means you won't be able to get the best, and likely canon, ending. EA's not gonna patch the game to remove the requirement of grinding the MP, either, they'll just tell you to fuck off and that's that. So yeah, MP is hurting ME3 quite a bit. Because of that alone I wouldn't even put ME3 on an honorable mentions list, let alone call it GOTY. It'd be heading up a "Game with the most terrible design choices" and "Games ruined by features that didn't need to be there" contest, though. [/QUOTE] They fixed that issue with the Extended Cut.
I've always wanted to play Fez but I really would rather not support a developer like that.
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