• New MH17 footage confirms Russian rebels thought it was military transporter.
    49 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Fort83;47185216]They do understand this, everyone knows they are involved. The point is Russia keeps denying involvement. If the west supports Ukraine with military equipment and training instead of troops, and Russian troops get killed, well Russia already said they weren't involved so they can't complain.[/QUOTE] But the west has yet to outright say Russia is invading Ukraine.
[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;47185172]And do you think US and western secret agents aren't in Ukraine at this very moment or what? Everyone's involved, the cold truth is that the west doesn't see it being worth to invest so much into Ukraine.[/QUOTE] It would certainly fuck russia's shit if you ask me :v:
[QUOTE=Abaddabadon;47184817]"The [Budapest] memorandum included security assurances against threats or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine as well as those of Belarus and Kazakhstan." Soooo both territorial integrity and political independence was violated by Russia and yet the powers of the 1994 Budapest memorandum have yet to act on their behalf of the pact. Doubt they will do much at this point seeing how far this is dragging out now.[/QUOTE] The Budapest memorandum just said all parties will refrain from attacking Ukraine, it didn't say they have to defend Ukraine in the event of an attack - although it did say UN Security Council action should be sought if Ukraine came under threat from nuclear weapons.
[QUOTE=recolour;47185290]It would certainly fuck russia's shit if you ask me :v:[/QUOTE] You need to look at the long term consequences, Ukraine is already culturally and economically dominated by Russia anyway so basically the west doesn't see any hope of "saving" it at the moment.
[QUOTE=Zambies!;47184835][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLKnCeeAW48[/media] There, I'm doing the speaking for him.[/QUOTE] Let me help too, this is a team effort. This proves nothing. The Ukrainians are losing and are desperate for support. How do we know this isn't staged by the Ukrainians to make the separatists look like the bad guys?
[QUOTE=Aide;47184708]Full military support for Ukraine [B]NOW[/B].[/QUOTE] I don't get how this news that proves something you already believed in changed something to you. Or do you just post these calls for Ukraine support in every relevant thread?
[QUOTE=Spirit_Breaker;47185314]You need to look at the long term consequences, Ukraine is already culturally and economically dominated by Russia anyway so basically the west doesn't see any hope of "saving" it at the moment.[/QUOTE] Oh, so all the battles and conflicts and deaths that are happening in ukraine are just for funsies, and the entire maidan thing was made up? Could've sworn the entire reason ukrainians are having really tough time is that russia is trying real hard to exert their dominance.
It was clear that it was the rebels that did this before the footage, but it was also clear it was a mistake. No doubt a terrible one, that people should be punished for, but not a direct action against European nations. I am just glad this will shut up the conspiracy theorists (or just add to their madness)
[QUOTE=Nexosz;47185364]Oh, so all the battles and conflicts and deaths that are happening in ukraine are just for funsies, and the entire maidan thing was made up? Could've sworn the entire reason ukrainians are having really tough time is that russia is trying real hard to exert their dominance.[/QUOTE] They have been having a really hard time for over 10 years now, maidan was one of the outcomes of it. You are just getting more coverage now.
Where's the Dutch goverment in all this? How come they haven't raised their fists at these idiots yet? They have all the right to do so I think.
[QUOTE=Tumama;47185420]Where's the Dutch goverment in all this? How come they haven't raised their fists at these idiots yet? They have all the right to do so I think.[/QUOTE] What do you want them to do? Invade Putin?
[QUOTE=Teddybeer;47185494]Currently aiming on getting the human remains and debris here. Then you have the report that is all about what happened after it got shot, and a separate report which will aim towards who did it and why + legal action (not many know what is in it). Acting all hostile wouldn't help us or NATO.[/QUOTE] The Russian rebels/terrorists didn't even give us enough time to investigate the entire crash site to recover all the remains and debris.
So what happened to that Russian spy satellite footage that "proved" it was the Ukrainians that did it?
[QUOTE=Thlis;47185595]So what happened to that Russian spy satellite footage that "proved" it was the Ukrainians that did it?[/QUOTE] It was fake, most likely for domestic consumption.
So they didn't wonder why a crashed military transport was full of bodies?
More proof that rebels shot down the airplane using Russian-supplied AA won't change a thing. We pretty much already decided that was the case, resulting in sanctions. It's not going to change the situation at this stage. There's no easy way out for Ukraine. No military alliances means no friends to call on. NATO is not obligated, nor does it have anything to gain from directly interfering.
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