Scientists offer quantum theory of soul's existence.
89 replies, posted
This is probably, just media fucking with us again. As far I understood, they talk about quantum theory of consciousness, and when Hameroff mentioned soul in the interview, the media picked that up in the headlines; "possible that this quantum information can exist outside the body indefinitely - as a soul". He didn't mean it's necessarily an actual soul, but said that because according to the quantium mechanics information cannot be destroyed.
"A PAIR of world-renowned quantum scientists say they can prove the existence of the soul." (They never said that)
"The quantum soul theory" (Nope, it's the theory of consciousness, or the The Orch-OR)
Anyway. I know they're respected scientists but this sounds quite weird to me. Or course, it's something I've got almost zero understanding of, but how can the quantum state spontaneously just escape the body when you go near death, and what that even has to do with death? Isn't the quantum state tied to the particles in your body? And how the hell does it spontaneously come back and what drives it. This early theory has gotten a lot of critic among scientists too.
Bad science journalism as usual I guess... Not even a link to the original paper in the article.
sensationalism.
If it exists, we can kill it.
Well this is mindblowing
[QUOTE=Vodkavia;38259170]Shame it's not a soul of the religious kind. Afterlife sounds a lot better than dissipating.[/QUOTE]
I don't know. I think what makes life special to me is that it is finite and that death is absolute.
it's common among all young atheists to take for granted that after death you (Or the information in your brain that defines you) being (Even as dissipating quantum information) just stops even though there's no sure information on the matter.
if this research is infact credible it would potentially solve the whole debate.
Ugh, this same bullshit
[quote]"The quantum information within the microtubules is not destroyed, it can't be destroyed, it just distributes and dissipates to the universe at large.[/quote]
When something loses its form it loses its function. That "quantum information" may not be lost but it's split into billions of pieces. If I smash a TV into a billion pieces and scatter them around a junkyard then guess what, it's not a functional TV anymore. Same thing for your brain, and if it's not functional then it's not you any more than a molecule of plastic is a TV.
I have a tiny brain, can someone explain this to me?
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;38259237]Panic! Souls and consciousness have no place in modern science![/QUOTE]
Don't be that guy.
Just because a well known scientist says it doesn't mean it's true, I would like to point out one huge, glaring flaw in this idea.
How the fuck does the "soul" redirect itself back to the appropriate brain? How does this "soul" realise that the body is in fact not dead? How does the resuscitation of a person signal a "soul" to return to the body?
This isn't scientific theory, it's outright hypothesis and a Deus Ex Machina at that. It's bad science and should be disregarded as such.
[editline]31st October 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38262891]I have a tiny brain, can someone explain this to me?[/QUOTE]
Nothing to explain, it's horse shit.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38262891]I have a tiny brain, can someone explain this to me?[/QUOTE]
guy makes up stupid shit
[QUOTE=Fedalkyn;38260238]"Take that Atheists" - Every religious zealot ever[/QUOTE]
Except its not a soul they are talking about, its consciousness.
[QUOTE=Zillamaster55;38262891]I have a tiny brain, can someone explain this to me?[/QUOTE]
It doesn't really change anything. Our brains work the same way as ever, which is just processing information in a nutshell.
As for soul, there is no soul, sort of.. There is just your body and your mind working together. It's very complicated and very simple at the same time.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;38262990]It doesn't really change anything. Our brains work the same way as ever, which is just processing information in a nutshell.
As for soul, there is no soul, sort of.. There is just your body and your mind working together. It's very complicated and very simple at the same time.[/QUOTE]
It's incredibly complicated and not even slightly simple, we have absolutely no idea how consciousness/sapience and awareness arises, let alone to the point where we can construct languages, arts and sciences.
I can't be the only one reminded of morphic theory horseshit here.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rupert_Sheldrake[/url]
This guy. This fucker right here. I've had teachers tell me his ideas have merit. Biology teachers. Morphic theory is literally magic.
Does this mean the idea of consciousness I was arguing for against people who said that if you replace your brain you aren't dead, is right?
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38263001]It's incredibly complicated and not even slightly simple, we have absolutely no idea how consciousness/sapience and awareness arises, let alone to the point where we can construct languages, arts and sciences.[/QUOTE]
Yes it's quite something significant what we humans have built with our minds and our hands, like languages and technologies.
But our minds, or consciousness, it still works and works very well, to the point where we study how it works on molecular/quantum level, or something.
[QUOTE=sltungle;38260518]Penrose is an incredibly respected mathematician and physicist who's done a lot of serious work with Stephen Hawking that's been considered revolutionary. He's definitely not a quack and I'd rather somebody with some deal of knowledge in the subject matter seriously read his paper and THEN commented on it rather than just taking the over-sensationalised media's version of it and commenting on that at a face value.
Of course the appeal to authority isn't a valid argument, but he does seem to know his shit so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt over some news website.[/QUOTE]
There are tons of brilliant physicists through history who had batshit retarded views when it came to consciousness and the soul.
Godel tried to formulate a rigorous mathematical proof of god, for crying out loud.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;38259252]not when you pull them out of your superfluous second anus[/QUOTE]
It's his [i]quantum[/i] anus.
[QUOTE=Gekkosan;38263045]Yes it's quite something significant what we humans have built with our minds and our hands, like languages and technologies.
But our minds, or consciousness, it still works and works very well, to the point where we study how it works on molecular/quantum level, or something.[/QUOTE]
No you don't get what I'm saying.
I'm saying that while the consciousness does indeed work, we literally have no fucking clue how it works, it could literally be magic for all we know right now.
So. Quantum physics are basically getting as bullshit as any other bullshit religion?
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38263190]So. Quantum physics are basically getting as bullshit as any other bullshit religion?[/QUOTE]One branch of sweaty bollocks doesn't ruin the whole tree.
quantum woo: facepunch edition
[QUOTE=Alcoholocaust;38263190]So. Quantum physics are basically getting as bullshit as any other bullshit religion?[/QUOTE]
Except for the part where Quantum Physics has evidence to back it up, just some people who are total retards jump on it and shout "LOOK THIS THING WORKS, IT'S BECAUSE OF QUANTUM MECHANICS!" People use it as a Deus Ex Machina to explain shit when they don't know how it works. It's basically people who don't know what they're talking about shouting the scientific equivalent of "God did it."
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38263035]Does this mean the idea of consciousness I was arguing for against people who said that if you replace your brain you aren't dead, is right?[/QUOTE]
Not really. A) This dude's basically making shit up, which is obviously a big no-no in science, and B) it would seem that the shit he's made up doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. Even if you were right this definitely doesn't prove anything, other than Penrose's own poor understanding of consciousness.
[QUOTE=Pierrewithahat;38263185]No you don't get what I'm saying.
I'm saying that while the consciousness does indeed work, we literally have no fucking clue how it works, it could literally be magic for all we know right now.[/QUOTE]
Yes but what I'm saying is that once we learn how it works, be it magic or something else, it still won't change the way of our world.
And on a less serious note, it is all magic!
[QUOTE=JohnnyMo1;38263075]There are tons of brilliant physicists through history who had batshit retarded views when it came to consciousness and the soul.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, newton was a total nut and believed in alchemy and biblical science. He also predicted that the world will end in 2060 (using the bible).
The memories contained in the brain are the soul.
[QUOTE=Maucer;38265220]Yeah, newton was a total nut and believed in alchemy and biblical science. He also predicted that the world will end in 2060 (using the bible).[/QUOTE]
creativity and intelligence, as well as mental insanity usually go hand in hand.
I mean look at "A beautiful mind". Schizophrenic who was a genius at math.
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