Violent scenes after vote on union flag in Belfast - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38694256]The reason for this whole mess is because the English failed to integrate Ireland like they did with the Scottish and Welsh.[/QUOTE] You make it sound like the plantations were a good thing. "Integrate"

[QUOTE=Mabus;38694321]You make it sound like the plantations were a good thing. "Integrate"[/QUOTE] I never implied that it was positive. The reason it worked in Scotland was due to the clearances + industrial revolution removing pretty much all the gaelic speakers in Scotland and putting them into the towns and cities (or abroad). In Wales, it got conquered in the High Middle Ages, filled with castles, and then merged with England in the 1500s. It's been an integral part of England since.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38693842]Until the 1820s, Catholics weren't allowed to vote. There were also heavy restrictions on property ownership.[/QUOTE] Yeah but almost no one was allowed to vote back then other than upper class land owners.

Some particular peoples Irish history knowledge in this thread is shocking [editline]4th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Sobotnik;38694387]I never implied that it was positive. The reason it worked in Scotland was due to the clearances + industrial revolution removing pretty much all the gaelic speakers in Scotland and putting them into the towns and cities (or abroad). In Wales, it got conquered in the High Middle Ages, filled with castles, and then merged with England in the 1500s. It's been an integral part of England since.[/QUOTE] How nice of you to give us some barely relatable bullshit no one cares about

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38694414]Yeah but almost no one was allowed to vote back then other than upper class land owners.[/QUOTE] Minus the fact every law enacted to extend the franchise thereafter also applied to the Irish and Catholics too. By 1918 pretty much everybody (minus unmarried or poor women under the age of 30) could vote. Point is that there was increasing rights for the Catholics as time went on. [editline]4th December 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=TrulliLulli;38694429]Some particular peoples Irish history knowledge in this thread is shocking[/QUOTE] In what way? [QUOTE=TrulliLulli;38694429]How nice of you to give us some barely relatable bullshit no one cares about[/QUOTE] Well it is relatable, Scotland/Ireland/Wales are pretty much similar enough (especially Ireland and the Scottish highlands).

[QUOTE]Some of the protesters who had gathered outside the city hall used metal barriers, bottles and [B]golf balls[/B] to attack police.[/QUOTE] Only in Ireland.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38694456]Minus the fact every law enacted to extend the franchise thereafter also applied to the Irish and Catholics too. By 1918 pretty much everybody (minus unmarried or poor women under the age of 30) could vote.[/QUOTE] Yeah but the Franchise wasn't really extended significantly until 1867 with the second reform act, before that there was no real significant extension of franchise. Regardless, catholics haven't been descriminated against Catholics for over a century now so nothing done by any Irish nationalist group is justified.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38694500]Yeah but the Franchise wasn't really extended significantly until 1867 with the second reform act, before that there was no real significant extension of franchise[/QUOTE] (1832 was big but w/e) The main point I originally made however is that in terms of franchise, Catholics from that point on were equal.

[QUOTE=Sobotnik;38694519](1832 was big but w/e) The main point I originally made however is that in terms of franchise, Catholics from that point on were equal.[/QUOTE] 1832 only increased it from 400,000 to 650,000 in a population of 14 million, it wasn't exactly significant.

[QUOTE=carcarcargo;38694529]1832 only increased it from 400,000 to 650,000 in a population of 14 million, it wasn't exactly significant.[/QUOTE] It was significant in that it got rid of a lot of the rotten boroughs, established electoral registers and brought in some of the middle classes though. 1867 through 1885 (reform acts, secret ballot act, corrupt and illegal practices act) was the most significant change imo tho.

[QUOTE=Scot;38694494]Only in Ireland.[/QUOTE] Ol' jim can hit 600m! Not with a golf club though :v:

The history of Ireland before the 12th century was mostly one of failure. It never really managed to develop into a coherent feudal state by the time the Normans arrived.

You do realise the problems we have today have more to do with the '80s than the 1800s?

Not sure if this video has been posted yet [url]https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=289447507841969&set=vb.100003301656610&type=2&theater[/url]

[QUOTE=Rents;38695221]You do realise the problems we have today have more to do with the '80s than the 1800s?[/QUOTE] The roots of it can be traced back to a lot further back than the 1980s.

ITT: people who don't understand the politics of Northern Ireland discuss the politics of Northern Ireland

[QUOTE=JgcxCub;38704276]ITT: people who don't understand the politics of Northern Ireland[/QUOTE] Most rioters don't either.

I honestly don't see the point in flying the tricolor. Northern Ireland is predominately unionist, flying that flag in the most Pro-British region of the Country is like announcing you're a proud and loyal member of the KKK in the public barbecue of an all black neighborhood If you don't like the fact that a small part of the island likes being british move south, don't bitch about it

[QUOTE=JgcxCub;38704276]ITT: people who don't understand the politics of Northern Ireland discuss the politics of Northern Ireland[/QUOTE] pray tell your expert opinion.

[QUOTE=JgcxCub;38704276]ITT: people who don't understand the politics of Northern Ireland discuss the politics of Northern Ireland[/QUOTE] I don't think anybody does.

[QUOTE=Vasili;38704671]pray tell your expert opinion.[/QUOTE] I do live in Belfast and studied it for history (for 2 years) While I'm not a historian I would understand it better than most people here