• "I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
    1,221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Rangergxi;41122527]I thought transgendered people for the most part were interested in changing genders and embracing the pronouns of their gender of choice.[/QUOTE] For the most part yeah but there's also a sizable number of Genderqueer people.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41122597]hey alex_delarge you should find us all some nice george carlin quotes on the subject, or perhaps you have a different philoso-comedian you use for transgender issues[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m3cu2v5LnT1r7qpeho1_500.jpg[/IMG] thank u based stephn u understand my bigotry (as if he wouldnt ashamed of you for misusing his quote)
[QUOTE=SGTSpartans;41115340]I don't understand why people have to accept everything? I mean yeah transgenders and stuff aren't wrong or evil in doing their thing but that doesn't mean everyone has to accept that and be OK with it. Personally I agree with him, but there's no reason for him to be receiving the same kind of hate transgenders receive.[/QUOTE] Sorry, but do you think a "transgender" is some magical third gender? Someone who is trans is usually the opposite gender to their biological one, not some mystical third party. You can't be "a" "transgender", you can BE transgender, but you can't be "a" transgender, that's just absolute linguistical nonsense.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123301]Sorry, but do you think a "transgender" is some magical third gender? Someone who is trans is usually the opposite gender to their biological one, not some mystical third party. You can't be "a" "transgender", you can BE transgender, but you can't be "a" transgender, that's just absolute linguistical nonsense.[/QUOTE] Some people want to be some strange hermaphroditic creature with no relation to Male or Female. I personally don't get it at all.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123301]Sorry, but do you think a "transgender" is some magical third gender? Someone who is trans is usually the opposite gender to their biological one, not some mystical third party. You can't be "a" "transgender", you can BE transgender, but you can't be "a" transgender, that's just absolute linguistical nonsense.[/QUOTE] people often treat transgender people like an alien in their language "oh look at the transgender. what a weird looking transgender that one is."
A woman is a female. A female is a sex. A sex is a reproductive specialization. A vagina is a reproductive specialization. The vagina belongs to the female sex. All females have a vagina. I don't get the buzz. What he's saying is literally factually correct. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] Like I get if you identify as another gender and don't give a shit. It doesn't change your sex though. You are not going to sprout a penis/vajay.
[QUOTE=Jawalt;41123379]A female is a sex. A sex is a reproductive specialization. A vagina is a reproductive specialization. The vagina belongs to the female sex. All females have a vagina. I don't get the buzz. What he's saying is literally factually true[/QUOTE] This is true, but note how he used "Woman" instead of "Female". He's talking about genders and not sexes, most likely by accident.
[QUOTE=Jawalt;41123379]A woman is a female. A female is a sex. A sex is a reproductive specialization. A vagina is a reproductive specialization. The vagina belongs to the female sex. All females have a vagina. I don't get the buzz. What he's saying is literally factually correct. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] Like I get if you identify as another gender and don't give a shit. It doesn't change your sex though. You are not going to sprout a penis/vajay.[/QUOTE] Fact does not equate morality.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123502]Fact does not equate morality.[/QUOTE] What does morality have anything to do with the semantics of genders? I mean, if anything you probably meant "Factually correct" does not equate "Politically Correct" and even then I don't think he was politically incorrect in saying "Women have Vaginas"
[QUOTE=Zenreon117;41123552]What does morality have anything to do with the semantics of genders? I mean, if anything you probably meant "Factually correct" does not equate "Politically Correct" and even then I don't think he was politically incorrect in saying "Women have Vaginas"[/QUOTE] It's a pretty fucking cruel thing to say that someone's not the gender they identify as purely because of fact. You're basically shitting in their face and all over their confidence. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] It's like saying that a man who has a prosthetic leg still doesn't have a leg. Yes, he doesn't, but that doesn't mean it's a fucking moral thing to say now, is it?
thing is, if you go into a street and ask people if women have vaginas, 99% if people will say yes taking a word for use in something is fine, but you can't expect people not involved with things to dance around semantics for you to voice their opinions when the word to them has meant a different thing to you
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41123359]people often treat transgender people like an alien in their language "oh look at the transgender. what a weird looking transgender that one is."[/QUOTE] I also like sweeping generalizations
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123576]It's a pretty fucking cruel thing to say that someone's not the gender they identify as purely because of fact. You're basically shitting in their face and all over their confidence. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] It's like saying that a man who has a prosthetic leg still doesn't have a leg. Yes, he doesn't, but that doesn't mean it's a fucking moral thing to say now, is it?[/QUOTE] Take it this way - it's not cruelty. Or at least not intentional cruelty. The thing is that transgenders as a rule are highly unusual, they're an incredibly marginal group, but even they need to realise, for people to take them as the gender they identify as, they need to look and act the part. It's not just the fact they act feminine, they also need to look feminine. And at the end of the day, your primary sex organs do sort of play a role in this as well. It's also why pre SRS transgenders are going to be a lot less accepted than post SRS ones. Hell when you listen to transgender people, you often hear a line similar to I'm gender trapped in 'gender body. That by itself implies that there's a big difference between their identified gender and their physical gender and that they are aware of that. To make it even funnier, saying a line like not all women have vaginas is actually counter to a lot of feminism. Feminism wants to abolish gender roles to an extent, saying something like this actually only reinforces them. [QUOTE=Aphtonites;41123429]This is true, but note how he used "Woman" instead of "Female". He's talking about genders and not sexes, most likely by accident.[/QUOTE] That's because to 99% of people gender and sex are one thing. You can have a man that acts feminine or a very masculine woman. But that doesn't stop them from being a man or a woman. It also doesn't stop them from being male or female. Now if you remind people that transgenders exist, they'll go: "oh yeah you're right. But they're more of an exception than anything else." That's because female, male, woman, man to us are a physical thing. How the person looks like, to an extent how they act and a number of other things. We see no difference between male and man for instance. A man is just a way of saying human male. [QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123576]It's a pretty fucking cruel thing to say that someone's not the gender they identify as purely because of fact. You're basically shitting in their face and all over their confidence. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] It's like saying that a man who has a prosthetic leg still doesn't have a leg. Yes, he doesn't, but that doesn't mean it's a fucking moral thing to say now, is it?[/QUOTE] Except, in my experience of having dealt with a lot of people who suffer from blindness, a missing limb and similar, they utterly hate when people try to sugarcoat stuff like that. Most of them go - so I'm missing a hand that doesn't make me less of person. So don't avoid the issue. They are aware of the fact that they don't have the limb and they don't need you not reminding them of it or trying to flunder around of not trying to completely avoid it.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123502]Fact does not equate morality.[/QUOTE] just as morality does not equate fact, and anything that is not fact should not be taken seriously. [QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123576]It's a pretty fucking cruel thing to say that someone's not the gender they identify as purely because of fact. You're basically shitting in their face and all over their confidence. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] It's like saying that a man who has a prosthetic leg still doesn't have a leg. Yes, he doesn't, but that doesn't mean it's a fucking moral thing to say now, is it?[/QUOTE] They DON'T have a leg, they have a prosthetic. What he is saying is 100% correct, it's not like he's saying "trans people r faeking it", he's just being inflammatory because their reactions are hilarious.
[QUOTE=Drsalvador;41123576]It's a pretty fucking cruel thing to say that someone's not the gender they identify as purely because of fact. You're basically shitting in their face and all over their confidence. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] It's like saying that a man who has a prosthetic leg still doesn't have a leg. Yes, he doesn't, but that doesn't mean it's a fucking moral thing to say now, is it?[/QUOTE] So you think it's better to reject the reality of things just because it makes some people uncomfortable. I can't think of anything more stupid than that.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41123740]So you think it's better to reject the reality of things just because it makes some people uncomfortable. I can't think of anything more stupid than that.[/QUOTE] seriously disrespecting someone's gender identify carries a lot more than 'making them uncomfortable'
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41123753]seriously disrespecting someone's gender identify carries a lot more than 'making them uncomfortable'[/QUOTE] Sure - but to be actually identified as such you need to be recogniseable as such a gender. Ideally in such a way that people can't tell you apart from the gender itself.
[QUOTE=mchapra;41123617]I also like sweeping generalizations[/QUOTE] how is that a sweeping generalization? due to ignorance of how to even use the term properly people tend to do it quite often.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41123753]seriously disrespecting someone's gender identify carries a lot more than 'making them uncomfortable'[/QUOTE] Just because a subset of people have adopted the title of "women" or "man" regardless of what their sex is doesn't mean other people have to accept that as so. As it stands "woman" is defined as an adult member of the female sex.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41123814]how is that a sweeping generalization? due to ignorance of how to even use the term properly people tend to do it quite often.[/QUOTE] I've never seen it happen though my experience does not equal always the case I guess.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41123866]Just because a subset of people have adopted the title of "women" or "man" regardless of what their sex is doesn't mean other people have to accept that as so. As it stands "woman" is defined as an adult member of the female sex.[/QUOTE] "hey being extremely rude is just fine as long as i think it is"
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41123866]Just because a subset of people have adopted the title of "women" or "man" regardless of what their sex is doesn't mean other people have to accept that as so. As it stands "woman" is defined as an adult member of the female sex.[/QUOTE] You have [B]NO[/B] reason to not accept transpeople that doesn't include being a bigot.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41123889]You have [B]NO[/B] reason to not accept transpeople that doesn't include being a bigot.[/QUOTE] well you see, the oxford dictionary defines a woman as...
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41123889]You have [B]NO[/B] reason to not accept transpeople that doesn't include being a bigot.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I don't, just like these people don't have a reason to get angry at some guy on the internet because his use of a word based on established conventions of language doesn't jive with whatever arbitrary usage they want to institute.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41123920]Yeah, I don't, just like people don't have a reason to get angry at some guy on the internet because his use of a word based on established conventions of language doesn't jive with whatever arbitrary usage they want to institute.[/QUOTE] legit educate yourself on the issue more, then you'd get a better understanding [highlight](User was banned for this post ("We use capitals in this forum" - Starpluck))[/highlight]
All this arguing will never get anywhere, there is a fundamental disconnect between people on the issues, and arguing won't change anything. The way I see it is people should be allowed to have any opinion of transgenderness they want as long as they don't harass them, disparage them, insult them, condescend them, dehumanize them, or fight against their equality as citizens/humans. I doubt anyone here actually disagrees with that, so what is the point.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41123928]legit educate yourself on the issue more, then you'd get a better understanding[/QUOTE] Legit get a basic understanding of the English language.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41123949]Legit get a basic understanding of the English language.[/QUOTE] lol.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41123948]All this arguing will never get anywhere, there is a fundamental disconnect between people on the issues, and arguing won't change anything. The way I see it is people should be allowed to have any opinion of transgenderness they want as long as they don't harass them, disparage them, insult them, condescend them, dehumanize them, or fight against their equality as citizens/humans. I doubt anyone here actually disagrees with that, so what is the point.[/QUOTE] Because that turns into "trannies r ok as long as i dont have 2 see them ever ew gross!!!!" [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] not saying thats your opinion before you say that, but that is usually what "equal rights for transgender people" becomes
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41124157]Because that turns into "trannies r ok as long as i dont have 2 see them ever ew gross!!!!" [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] not saying thats your opinion before you say that, but that is usually what "equal rights for transgender people" becomes[/QUOTE] Well if they think they're gross but don't hurt them in any way (you could argue that having an opinion on them is hurting them, but...that's a different beast altogether) then what's the problem? People who think transgender people are gross, but don't hurt them in any way aren't really doing much anything besides harboring a personal opinion.
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