"I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
1,221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41124178]Well if they think they're gross but don't hurt them in any way (you could argue that having an opinion on them is hurting them, but...that's a different beast altogether) then what's the problem? People who think transgender people are gross, but don't hurt them in any way aren't really doing much anything besides harboring a personal opinion.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-trans-community-hates-dr-janice-g.html"]because personal opinions become laws or go to the listening ears of people they shouldnt and fuck over generations of transpeople.[/URL]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41123359]people often treat transgender people like an alien in their language
"oh look at the transgender. what a weird looking transgender that one is."[/QUOTE]
Because generally they do look weird. A transgender person typically retains the figure of their former gender, but then due to hormone treatments develops characteristics of the opposite gender. Thus you get men with long hair, makeup and breasts. Or women with beards and mustaches.
Now to me, that is weird. If you see someone walking around with a male figure, but he's wearing women's clothing and has breasts, that's rather out of the ordinary and people will comment on it as such.
And while they may insist that they are women/female, biologically they're not. If someone analyzes their DNA, it will still show up as male with an X and an Y chromosome. But since they don't want to be called male, people will call them transgender female instead, as a compromise.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41124211][URL="http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-trans-community-hates-dr-janice-g.html"]because personal opinions become laws or go to the listening ears of people they shouldnt and fuck over generations of transpeople.[/URL][/QUOTE]
That is true, but is it fair to treat people who obviously don't want to hurt transgender people in any way as the same as people who literally are awful bigots?
Maybe it is, maybe you can't trust humans to just let bygones be bygones.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41124178]Well if they think they're gross but don't hurt them in any way (you could argue that having an opinion on them is hurting them, but...that's a different beast altogether) then what's the problem? People who think transgender people are gross, but don't hurt them in any way aren't really doing much anything besides harboring a personal opinion.[/QUOTE]
Well, then keep it to yourself. It's not productive and isn't nice.
[QUOTE=V12US;41124221]Because generally they do look weird. A transgender person typically retains the figure of their former gender, but then due to hormone treatments develops characteristics of the opposite gender. Thus you get men with long hair, makeup and breasts. Or women with beards and mustaches.
Now to me, that is weird. If you see someone walking around with a male figure, but he's wearing women's clothing and has breasts, that's rather out of the ordinary and people will comment on it as such.
And while they may insist that they are women/female, biologically they're not. If someone analyzes their DNA, it will still show up as male with an X and an Y chromosome. But since they don't want to be called male, people will call them transgender female instead, as a compromise.[/QUOTE]
these are all your average trans women
[IMG]http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/16/55/31/3855989/3/628x471.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3121978520/58b107dc631829c2103a1d3619fa0423.jpeg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.styleite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/thumb70.jpg[/IMG]
this isn't
[IMG]http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/6/48/47/174846/v0_master.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=V12US;41124221]Now to me, that is weird. If you see someone walking around with a male figure, but he's wearing women's clothing and has breasts, that's rather out of the ordinary and people comment on it as such.[/QUOTE]
Seeing weird people in the street doesn't mean you walk up to them and tell them they are weird and can't change that. You keep that shit to yourself.
[QUOTE=V12US;41124221]And while they may insist that they are women/female, biologically they're not. If someone analyzes their DNA, it will still show up as male with an X and an Y chromosome. But since they don't want to be called male, people will call them transgender female instead, as a compromise.[/QUOTE]
When you're out and about, having lunch or seeing a movie or at the store, do you [I]honestly[/I] care what chromosomes someone has or does not have?
[QUOTE=V12US;41124221]
Now to me, that is weird. If you see someone walking around with a male figure, but he's wearing women's clothing and has breasts, that's rather out of the ordinary and people will comment on it as such. [/QUOTE]
yeah but thats because dutch people are really mean
[QUOTE=Megafan;41124251]Well, then keep it to yourself. It's not productive and isn't nice.[/QUOTE]
Clearly, but I'm just here right now to suggest we all give up on arguing because no one means to be a bigot, and if they did, they would likely be banned, plain and simple.
I think we can all be friends and love each other (seriously i mean it)
[QUOTE=thisispain;41124258]yeah but thats because dutch people are really mean[/QUOTE]
Fact.
[QUOTE=V12US;41124267]Fact.[/QUOTE]
your houses are so cute tho, like tiny little brownstone squeezed next to each other
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41124259]Clearly, but I'm just here right now to suggest we all give up on arguing because no one means to be a bigot, and if they did, they would likely be banned, plain and simple.[/QUOTE]
Doesn't work that way. It's fine to make fun of transgender people and get a way with not being banned as has happened before alot of times.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41124253]these are all your average trans women
[IMG]http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/16/55/31/3855989/3/628x471.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3121978520/58b107dc631829c2103a1d3619fa0423.jpeg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.styleite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/thumb70.jpg[/IMG]
[/QUOTE]
I don't think you understand the concept of average.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;41124288]Doesn't work that way. It's fine to make fun of transgender people and get a way with not being banned as has happened before alot of times.[/QUOTE]
I don't know about that...but you may be right, but I have seen people banned for similar bigotry, so I figured it would hold true.
[QUOTE=V12US;41124323]I don't think you understand the concept of average.[/QUOTE]
fair enough, average isn't the right word. but my point still stands
i have never, ever EVER seen a transwoman who was like the last picture i linked, something you would ever know was a transwoman.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41124352]I don't know about that...but you may be right, but I have seen people banned for similar bigotry, so I figured it would hold true.[/QUOTE]
Most of the time mods will let it go unless it's Megafan or Max.
[QUOTE=Alice3173;41124368]Most of the time mods will let it go unless it's Megafan or Max.[/QUOTE]
also Craptasket "doesn't ban girls"
[QUOTE=Cone;41124393]also Craptasket "doesn't ban girls"[/QUOTE]
hi i was the person he directed that at
still makes me sad to even be a part of fp with people like him being a mod
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41124211][URL="http://transgriot.blogspot.com/2010/09/why-trans-community-hates-dr-janice-g.html"]because personal opinions become laws or go to the listening ears of people they shouldnt and fuck over generations of transpeople.[/URL][/QUOTE]
no offense, but that is a seemingly perfect example of a radical feminists who happens to not be a-okay to a lot of people.
[quote]
All transsexuals rape women's bodies by reducing the real female form to an artifact, appropriating this body for themselves .... Transsexuals merely cut off the most obvious means of invading women, so that they seem non-invasive
[/quote]
[quote]
"Transsexually constructed lesbian-feminists show yet another face of patriarchy.
[/quote]
And I am certain one could have a field day deconstructing her ideas and notions both towards men as well as towards transexuals. Also considering she seems to only talk about MtoF this isn't a direct hate or dislike of transexuals, but seems a proxy attack at men.
The truth is though, at the end of the day, sexual characteristics are hugely important to us humans and if someone doesn't comform to it we get haughty.
It doesn't terribly matter in public space, but once you get into somewhat more intimate and private spaces it does. It's why so many nontransgenders don't want pre-SRS transgenders in their public dressing rooms and similar. Because they don't like the notion of opposite gender sexual organs in places where they didn't expect any.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;41124288]Doesn't work that way. It's fine to make fun of transgender people and get a way with not being banned as has happened before alot of times.[/QUOTE]
To a certain level. But it's also okay to make fun out of blondes, germans, blacks, lesbians and just about everyone else as long as it doesn't cross a certain level.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;41124459]To a certain level. But it's also okay to make fun out of blondes, germans, blacks, lesbians and just about everyone else as long as it doesn't cross a certain level.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1270158&p=40654934&viewfull=1#post40654934"]When mods do it then I'm pretty sure it's not really cared about at all.[/URL]
[QUOTE=wraithcat;41124459]no offense, but that is a seemingly perfect example of a radical feminists who happens to not be a-okay to a lot of people.
And I am certain one could have a field day deconstructing her ideas and notions both towards men as well as towards transexuals. Also considering she seems to only talk about MtoF this isn't a direct hate or dislike of transexuals, but seems a proxy attack at men.
The truth is though, at the end of the day, sexual characteristics are hugely important to us humans and if someone doesn't comform to it we get haughty.
It doesn't terribly matter in public space, but once you get into somewhat more intimate and private spaces it does. It's why so many nontransgenders don't want pre-SRS transgenders in their public dressing rooms and similar. Because they don't like the notion of opposite gender sexual organs in places where they didn't expect any.
To a certain level. But it's also okay to make fun out of blondes, germans, blacks, lesbians and just about everyone else as long as it doesn't cross a certain level.[/QUOTE]
the issue with janice raymond is the fact she got the Reagan administration to drop any and all medical support for trans people for like 20 years or some shit.
[QUOTE=Tomo Takino;41124516][URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1270158&p=40654934&viewfull=1#post40654934"]When mods do it then I'm pretty sure it's not really cared about at all.[/URL][/QUOTE]
That's completely fucked up, but what are we to expect from him?
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41124520]the issue with janice raymond is the fact she got the Reagan administration to drop any and all medical support for trans people for like 20 years or some shit.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but she's the type who seems to have made the federal government drop medical care for men if she could.
Like I've said reading her quotes, she attacks MtoF transexuals in a proxy attack directed at men. The whole arguments she builds up are centered along the lines of - transexuals are bad, because they are men, who are bad, who want to steal our bodies.
There's another thing to consider - feminists and radical feminists even more so, want to eliminate established gender roles, ideally remove them altogether, in other cases reverse them. MtoF transexuals on the other hand often go against that, in the sense that they want to behave and act as the gender role of the gender they identify as. This brings them into direct conflict more often than not.
It's actually really interesting how the majority of focus always seems to be on MtoF transexuals, rarely, if ever do you see any focus on FtoM ones.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41124538]That's completely fucked up, but what are we to expect from him?[/QUOTE]
Surely it does give you somewhat of an insight into what it's like for transgender people though. Only Megafan and Max seem to actively try and stop that kind of stuff and they can hardly be everywhere.
It doesn't come up that often, but it sure can be just as bad here as anywhere else. Worse at times because it's actively trying to be upsetting while not much gets done about it.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;41124565]Sure, but she's the type who seems to have made the federal government drop medical care for men if she could.
Like I've said reading her quotes, she attacks MtoF transexuals in a proxy attack directed at men. The whole arguments she builds up are centered along the lines of - transexuals are bad, because they are men, who are bad, who want to steal our bodies.
There's another thing to consider - feminists and radical feminists even more so, want to eliminate established gender roles, ideally remove them altogether, in other cases reverse them. MtoF transexuals on the other hand often go against that, in the sense that they want to behave and act as the gender role of the gender they identify as. This brings them into direct conflict more often than not.
It's actually really interesting how the majority of focus always seems to be on MtoF transexuals, rarely, if ever do you see any focus on FtoM ones.[/QUOTE]
fair enough, i see your point
[editline]21st June 2013[/editline]
also you dont ever see ftm stuff because radfems are convinced they can "bring back their sisters who have been tainted and corrupted by masculinity' or wtf ever
point being they still like them but dont respect them basicially
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41124538]That's completely fucked up, but what are we to expect from him?[/QUOTE]
We could expect him to act like a role model for the rest of the forums. That would be asking too much though.
So many pretentious detached-observers going "I agree with this guy but actually nope both sides are fucking stupid". Stop trying to be the neutral tosser, Gabe is right and everyone else fucked up by overanalyzing it and being retard about it.
Only retarded dipshits who could identify themselfs in my call-out rated this post dumb like the butthurt morons they are.
I am going to write up their names so that I can rub salt into their wounds at every opportunity from now on.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("trolling" - postal))[/highlight]
for me, there's only 3 options: Male, Female, and anything in between. Makes most sense to me.
If you're a trans (guy to girl) and I have to refer to you, I will use "she" out of respect of who you are and your identity, but you are still in the "in between" category for me. This isn't because I don't respect your wishes to identify as the other gender, it's because there is a difference between being born and developing as a certain sex and when you decide to change your identity within that sex.
it's too early for this, having a hard time making sense
I just call people whatever they want to be called
if I'm unable to determine what they are or what they want me to call them I just avoid using gender pronouns until they or one of their friends use one first
it's not really that big a deal, it's like trying to remember someone's name; if you don't know what they want to be called but you know they are transgendered or mis-gendered or gender-reassigned or toaster-gendered then just wait until someone else uses it, then there will be no problems
[editline]e[/editline]
if [I]that[/I] person is wrong in what they call the person in question then you can silently blame it on them with the power of angry stares
[QUOTE=Glitchman;41124851]for me, there's only 3 options: Male, Female, and anything in between. Makes most sense to me.
If you're a trans (guy to girl) and I have to refer to you, I will use "she" out of respect of who you are and your identity, but you are still in the "in between" category for me. This isn't because I don't respect your wishes to identify as the other gender, it's because there is a difference between being born and developing as a certain sex and when you decide to change your identity within that sex.
it's too early for this, having a hard time making sense[/QUOTE]
I have to agree. I probably loose the notion of the in between once the person in transition undergoes SRS, but until then I sort of see them as in transition.
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