"I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
1,221 replies, posted
like, I am a (partially) straight, white male living in middle-class america and according to tumblr that means I don't get an opinion, but I have adopted a position on transgendered people called 'I really just do not give a damn what they do'.
See it's easy, and stay with me here
all you have to do is like
not give a shit what other people do with their bodies, because it's not yours to tell them what to do with. My personal opinion is that if someone's not comfortable with the sex or gender they were born with, more power to them if they want to go to the extent of changing that. Who am I to try to stop them and more to the point, why would I even want to do that? I get that there are gender roles in our society that have existed for a bajillion years, but it's easy to forget that people break those gender roles all the goddamn time these days, so their merit is starting to fade.
[QUOTE=Doomish;41125005]like, I am a (partially) straight, white male living in middle-class america and according to tumblr that means I don't get an opinion, but I have adopted a position on transgendered people called 'I really just do not give a damn what they do'.
See it's easy, and stay with me here
all you have to do is like
not give a shit what other people do with their bodies, because it's not yours to tell them what to do with. I get that there are gender roles in our society that have existed for a bajillion years, but it's easy to forget that people break those gender roles all the goddamn time these days, so their merit is starting to fade.[/QUOTE]
The best disposition from where I'm standing, I adopted not-giving-a-fuck position a long time ago as well.
But some people can't. They just feel as if the whole world would fucking collapse if status quo changed somehow, and they should run right in and support the Universe with their shoulder. It's like, "This person should not refer to him/herself as "she/he", and I oppose the whole idea!" - why do you give a fuck in the first place? Same for everything LGBT-related - why care? You can support it, you can avoid the question, but [b]WHY[/b] just being against it? Why does it matter.
These people really seem to think that they have to have an opinion, and personally stand up against... something, anything that shifts established status-quo.
[QUOTE=Doomish;41125005]like, I am a (partially) straight, white male living in middle-class america and according to tumblr that means I don't get an opinion, but I have adopted a position on transgendered people called 'I really just do not give a damn what they do'.
See it's easy, and stay with me here
all you have to do is like
not give a shit what other people do with their bodies, because it's not yours to tell them what to do with. My personal opinion is that if someone's not comfortable with the sex or gender they were born with, more power to them if they want to go to the extent of changing that. Who am I to try to stop them and more to the point, why would I even want to do that? I get that there are gender roles in our society that have existed for a bajillion years, but it's easy to forget that people break those gender roles all the goddamn time these days, so their merit is starting to fade.[/QUOTE]
The problem with this is that we have a western zeitgeist where opinions have become some kind of divine right that everyone has, and then I don't mean actually [i]having[/i] an opinion, but the expectations that everyone should respect your opinion, and dismissing it as 'stupid' or just ignoring a person blaring his BS through a metaphorical megaphone has become all but a sin.
The internet has fostered this mindset by giving everyone a virtual soapbox to stand on (tumblr/blogs are an obvious example, but even forums like these provide an audience) to broadcast their shit to an audience, where as before this stages tended to be reserved for genuinely smart people or folks who knew what they were talking about. As a result, the world is flooded with crappy opinions, drowning out the truly clever guys you would actually want to listen to. And because everyone always thinks they're right, discussions go nowhere because everyone ignores any argument that conflicts with their own point of view, or dismisses it as stupid. In extreme cases, you can even get banned/barred from a discussion for 'offending' someone by presenting an opinion that they disagree with.
This is why I tend to avoid places like reddit and even the "mass debate" forum here like the living plague, because they're nothing but banbait and/or massive wastes of time. I mean, look at the amount of posts in this thread and what it has accomplished. Nothing.
I went to an EXTREMELY liberal arts school. If you went there and you identified as "straight", you would be considered close minded and bigoted. Basically, you had to at least be bisexual to be considered a cool person. Now, what if as a society we swing this way, where being the "norm" is considered being ignorant and close minded? Not like it will happen, but people will be more prone to thinking you're "attacking" their way of life if you are a white straight male or whatever.
It's pretty interesting to think about. Around where I live there are groups of lesbians and gays who are actually convinced that's the BETTER thing to be, citing that homosexual relationships are more pure and happy, and that it helps control the population.
I feel like this isn't the way to go, I thought it was equality we were all fighting for, not superiority.
It just sucks when people who are different think they are better, if they are the majority or the minority.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41123928]legit educate yourself on the issue more, then you'd get a better understanding
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("We use capitals in this forum" - Starpluck))[/highlight][/QUOTE]This is the second worst ban I have ever seen.
[QUOTE=Glitchman;41124851]for me, there's only 3 options: Male, Female, and anything in between. Makes most sense to me.
If you're a trans (guy to girl) and I have to refer to you, I will use "she" out of respect of who you are and your identity, but you are still in the "in between" category for me. This isn't because I don't respect your wishes to identify as the other gender, it's because there is a difference between being born and developing as a certain sex and when you decide to change your identity within that sex.
it's too early for this, having a hard time making sense[/QUOTE]Gender isn't dependent on sex, they just usually align. There is no difference between a transgendered person and a cisgendered person in terms of gender.
Anyhow, I recommend playing [URL="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/591565"]dys4ia[/URL] for those having a hard time understanding the subject.
[QUOTE=Megafan;41124256]When you're out and about, having lunch or seeing a movie or at the store, do you [I]honestly[/I] care what chromosomes someone has or does not have?[/QUOTE]
You say that as if I genuinely care what gender the people are that I hang out with.
It's only an issue because you make it an issue.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41123928]legit educate yourself on the issue more, then you'd get a better understanding
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("We use capitals in this forum" - Starpluck))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=thisispain;41124258]yeah but thats because dutch people are really mean[/QUOTE]
Hey Starpluck, ban this guy because he doesn't use capitals!
[QUOTE=SuddenImpact;41126646]Hey Starpluck, ban this guy because he doesn't use capitals![/QUOTE]
I would honestly be pretty happy to see FP go back to having standards for language.
what about seeing fp go back to having standards when it comes to backseat modding
Sophie Prell wrote a bit more on her blog about the conversation with Gabe. [url]http://sophiejkl.blogspot.com/2013/06/penny-arcade-who-i-am.html[/url]
pain, radiohead still sucks
nerd
[QUOTE=thisispain;41126816]what about seeing fp go back to having standards when it comes to backseat modding[/QUOTE]
"let's tell mods what to do if enough of us feel a certain way they [B]have[/B] to do something"
[QUOTE=Glitchman;41124851]for me, there's only 3 options: Male, Female, and anything in between. Makes most sense to me. [/QUOTE]
this is called otherism and it's a whole other problem in and of itself
[QUOTE=Glitchman;41124851]If you're a trans (guy to girl) and I have to refer to you, I will use "she" out of respect of who you are and your identity, but you are still in the "in between" category for me. This isn't because I don't respect your wishes to identify as the other gender, it's because there is a difference between being born and developing as a certain sex and when you decide to change your identity within that sex. [/QUOTE]
glad to know you think of me as subhuman. at least you're really nice about it :)
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;41127331]pain, radiohead still sucks
nerd[/QUOTE]
id have thought singers with small testicles would be something you could relate to
[QUOTE=Dori;41127674]glad to know you think of me as subhuman. at least you're really nice about it :)[/QUOTE]
What the heck? This is what I'm talking about. I never once called you subhuman or hinted at that.
Otherism?
If you're different I'm going to treat you different, and not at all in a bad way.
It's funny how you took something I meant to be really understanding and compassionate and turned it into me calling people subhuman others.
by asserting that "male" and "female" are the somehow the default and that everyone else is "other," you are treating everyone else as an anomaly
[QUOTE=Dori;41127835]by asserting that "male" and "female" are the somehow the default and that everyone else is "other," you are treating everyone else as an anomaly[/QUOTE]
They are the default? Unless there is some underlying medical condition?
Male, Female, Everyone Else
Isn't putting anyone higher than the other. I could list the "everyone else" but I assumed people knew what I was talking about
there's no such thing as a default gender
[QUOTE=Dori;41127674]glad to know you think of me as subhuman. at least you're really nice about it :)[/QUOTE]
I recall that you've stated you're not trangendered, so how do you identify?
[QUOTE=Glitchman;41127780]If you're different I'm going to treat you different, and not at all in a bad way.
It's funny how you took something I meant to be really understanding and compassionate and turned it into me calling people subhuman others.[/QUOTE]You're not getting it. Genderwise, people who are transgendered aren't different. Treating them differently than how they identify is problematic. It's good that you're trying to be nice, but it doesn't matter if you're not trying to understand and continue to say harmful things.
[QUOTE=SL128;41127927]I recall that you've stated you're not trangendered, so how do you identify?
[/QUOTE]
I don't
[QUOTE=Glitchman;41127844]
Male, Female, Everyone Else
Isn't putting anyone higher than the other.[/QUOTE]
yes, it is. you're still treating the binary genders as the default and handwaving everything else
[editline]21st June 2013[/editline]
asking "what's cis?" or ridiculing people for the use of "cisgendered" is an example of otherism in action
[QUOTE=Atlascore;41127985]Then why did you say this?[/QUOTE]
because I don't fit into the binary
[QUOTE=Dori;41127998]because I don't fit into the binary[/QUOTE]
Binary only has two choices. Hence the bi part. 3 != 2.
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41128051]Binary only has two choices. Hence the bi part. 3 != 2.[/QUOTE]
no shit
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41128051]Binary only has two choices. Hence the bi part. 3 != 2.[/QUOTE]
i guess he's saying the binary is inadequate then
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;41123610]thing is, if you go into a street and ask people if women have vaginas, 99% if people will say yes
taking a word for use in something is fine, but you can't expect people not involved with things to dance around semantics for you to voice their opinions when the word to them has meant a different thing to you[/QUOTE]
Most people are completely ignorant on transgender issues, so they would naturally assume woman and cisgender female are synonymous.
Meanwhile, posters are trying to tell Gabe about transgenderism, and he's shitting in their face and trying to say that they're wrong and are still women/men based on their genitalia. He's upholding his ignorant values instead of trying to understand what all these transgender posters are saying.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41128299]Most people are completely ignorant on transgender issues, so they would naturally assume woman and cisgender female are synonymous.
Meanwhile, posters are trying to tell Gabe about transgenderism, and he's shitting in their face and trying to say that they're wrong and are still women/men based on their genitalia. He's upholding his ignorant values instead of trying to understand what all these transgender posters are saying.[/QUOTE]
except he isn't if you read the thing posted on penny arcade, where he actually explained that he has absolutely no issues with people identifying as male/female/whatever
he's shitting in their face because they're annoying him on twitter and sending him death threats.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41128299]Most people are completely ignorant on transgender issues, so they would naturally assume woman and cisgender female are synonymous.
Meanwhile, posters are trying to tell Gabe about transgenderism, and he's shitting in their face and trying to say that they're wrong and are still women/men based on their genitalia. He's upholding his ignorant values instead of trying to understand what all these transgender posters are saying.[/QUOTE]
Gabe is mostly mad because they are trying to guilt trip him, not because he hates trans people. Look at some of the tweets he got. Also why are you even replying to Dori at this point, he contributed nothing to the thread other than being a self-righteous bum who doesn't explain everything but throws insults.
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;41128471]except he isn't if you read the thing posted on penny arcade, where he actually explained that he has absolutely no issues with people identifying as male/female/whatever
he's shitting in their face because they're annoying him on twitter and sending him death threats.[/QUOTE]
So basically instead of responding in a mature manner/not at all, he decides to act like a complete fucking fool and make people hate him in the process?
[QUOTE=Jellyman;41128561]So basically instead of responding in a mature manner/not at all, he decides to act like a complete fucking fool and make people hate him in the process?[/QUOTE]
Expect he did respond in a mature manner
[QUOTE=ZuXer;41128581]Expect he did respond in a mature manner[/QUOTE]
Uh, no. Not at all.
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