• "I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
    1,221 replies, posted
I don't get this all. Can someone actually explain to me, what is fair: treat and view (and call) transgendered person by their [b]gender[/b] (example: male identifies as a woman, then he's a woman); or making up more sexes to suit trans people, so instead of just male/female and gender as a diffirent thing, we have actually four ( + some for each unique snowlfake who prefer to identify him/her/itself as something completely diffirent) [b]sexes[/b], cismale, cisfemale, transmale, transfemale. It's an honest question of interest.
[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;41115343]the fuck does "cis" even mean?[/QUOTE] Confederacy of Independent Systems [url]http://battlefront.wikia.com/wiki/Confederacy_of_Independent_Systems[/url]
[QUOTE=SL128;41127927]I recall that you've stated you're not trangendered, so how do you identify? You're not getting it. Genderwise, people who are transgendered aren't different. Treating them differently than how they identify is problematic. It's good that you're trying to be nice, but it doesn't matter if you're not trying to understand and continue to say harmful things.[/QUOTE] The problem is, for a very long time they are. At the end of the day, most of us won't care what you identify as. We really don't. But there are cases when many people will get negative. a) when a minority will try to change what they themselves identify as - the vagina issue is a perfect example of this b) when people are put into a position where they feel massively uncomfortable and don't expect what they're put in front of. Changing rooms and lockers are a perfect example of this. Where even many, otherwise very tolerant people might get negative. [QUOTE=Dori;41127998]because I don't fit into the binary[/QUOTE] Sure but at the end of the day, you need to also realise that you make for an unusual case for other people. No one who isn't a bigot will consider a transgender person subhuman or below them. But many people will consider them as someone outside of the binary. Or well exhibit otherism as you put it. That's because transgender people are a prime example of the other. And most of our expectations, language and other things are not set up for the other. [QUOTE=Reimu;41128299]Most people are completely ignorant on transgender issues, so they would naturally assume woman and cisgender female are synonymous. Meanwhile, posters are trying to tell Gabe about transgenderism, and he's shitting in their face and trying to say that they're wrong and are still women/men based on their genitalia. He's upholding his ignorant values instead of trying to understand what all these transgender posters are saying.[/QUOTE] He's fully aware that transgender people exist. He's instead mostly commenting on the fact that some people got caught up about a game dealing with vaginal masturbation was targeted at women and assumed with the most standard and generic view of that women have vaginas.
Gabe's first few response were pretty mature but they've seemed to decline. And it doesn't hurt that, up until the blog post, he's been trying to explain himself with gender language (i.e. "you're a boy if you have a penis, girl if you have a vagina" is different from "you're a male if you have a penis, female if you have a vagina" because one is gender and one is sex. ) To be fair though he seems to be respectful about transgender rights, it's just his intentions are getting lost in communication and he's getting frustrated.
[QUOTE=Reimu;41128740]Gabe's first few response were pretty mature but they've seemed to decline. And it doesn't hurt that, up until the blog post, he's been trying to explain himself with gender language (i.e. "you're a boy if you have a penis, girl if you have a vagina" is different from "you're a male if you have a penis, female if you have a vagina" because one is gender and one is sex. ) To be fair though he seems to be respectful about transgender rights, it's just his intentions are getting lost in communication and he's getting frustrated.[/QUOTE] I'd be pissed too, if I were him. And in a way, he's right. This game is aimed at people who are female in SEX not just gender.
[QUOTE=Mellowbloom;41128471]except he isn't if you read the thing posted on penny arcade, where he actually explained that he has absolutely no issues with people identifying as male/female/whatever he's shitting in their face because they're annoying him on twitter and sending him death threats.[/QUOTE] he less explained he had no issue with transgender people and more went "look sophie said im not transphobic look guys im not i swear she said it so its ok!!!!" [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] i don't nessecairly think he's transphobic, but i think he has views based out of ignorance and is just too stubborn to change them which is a real shame.
Damn i hate this feminist b*tch, always finding a problem where there's none. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Why reply?" - Megafan))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41129149]he less explained he had no issue with transgender people and more went "look sophie said im not transphobic look guys im not i swear she said it so its ok!!!!" [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] i don't nessecairly think he's transphobic, but i think he has views based out of ignorance and is just too stubborn to change them which is a real shame.[/QUOTE] Which is what people do when people are combatative douches to them. They dig in and entrench.
[QUOTE=deltasquid;41115380]these idiots use cis to refer to people who aren't trans, because using the word "normal" would imply that trans people are abnormal[/QUOTE] Why is there such a social stigma against being abnormal?
[QUOTE=lavacano;41129990]Why is there such a social stigma against being abnormal?[/QUOTE] I don't get this either. Why do they feel the need to redefine normal just so they don't have to face the fact they are abnormal.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41127679]id have thought singers with small testicles would be something you could relate to[/QUOTE] I dont want to be reminded :(
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41130084]I don't get this either. Why do they feel the need to redefine normal just so they don't have to face the fact they are abnormal.[/QUOTE] You have the stigma too. The way you worded that last bit, you made it obvious that you consider "abnormal" to be bad. It's not.
Oh god, looking at the number of pages alone makes me wish I'd brought popcorn for this thread.
[QUOTE=Jellyman;41128561]So basically instead of responding in a mature manner/not at all, he decides to act like a complete fucking fool and make people hate him in the process?[/QUOTE] tbh if someone sent me death threats then I hardly give a shit about acting in a mature manner.
[QUOTE=thisispain;41126816]what about seeing fp go back to having standards when it comes to backseat modding[/QUOTE] best part is that this itself is backseat modding
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;41130315]tbh if someone sent me death threats then I hardly give a shit about acting in a mature manner.[/QUOTE] If you've resolved to sending death threats, you've automatically lost the argument. No matter how right you'd otherwise be.
let's say for sake of argument that he was completely in the wrong about everything he tweeted does that justify threatening the guy's fucking life?
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;41130489]let's say for sake of argument that he was completely in the wrong about everything he tweeted does that justify threatening the guy's fucking life?[/QUOTE] Apparently since it's related to transgenders it's basically a wildcard for flaming him to hell and back without any repercussions.
[QUOTE=lavacano;41130179]You have the stigma too. The way you worded that last bit, you made it obvious that you consider "abnormal" to be bad. It's not.[/QUOTE] But I don't. You added the negative yourself.
[QUOTE=RichyZ;41130551]i havent used capitals in years man come on starbucks find a better reason[/QUOTE] Well you can't really ban someone for being a cunt can you?
[QUOTE=Craig Willmore;41130489]let's say for sake of argument that he was completely in the wrong about everything he tweeted does that justify threatening the guy's fucking life?[/QUOTE]Nobody here said it is because it's not. [QUOTE=mobrockers;41130605]But I don't. You added the negative yourself.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mobrockers;41130084]I don't get this either. Why do they feel the need to redefine normal just so they don't have to [B]face the fact[/B] they are abnormal.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41130605]But I don't. You added the negative yourself.[/QUOTE] You've already proven yourself ignorant a long time ago. You don't have to keep doing it. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116638]But I don't want to hurt you, I never meant to hurt you, and my beliefs don't change what I think of you. I'm not attempting to be homophobic, or transphobic. I maybe understand that you just want to destroy the "eh idk about gays/transgenders" completely and at every level, but dude it just isn't that fair, we have our beliefs that don't mean to hurt you, or anyone for that matter, but you treat us like bigoted idiots. We don't mean to hurt you, I'm sorry that others do, but we don't, and we don't deserve to be hated for still accepting you with some objections to your life.[/QUOTE] If you find yourself saying "I accept you as a person BUT.." then just stop right there because conditional acceptance for something unchangeable like gender identity is patronizing and bigoted.
[QUOTE=Jellyman;41128561]So basically instead of responding in a mature manner/not at all, he decides to act like a complete fucking fool and make people hate him in the process?[/QUOTE] Gabe is really just getting more and more bitter reactions out of people by saying something as simple as "women have vaginas" and letting them take it as far as they want. He didn't even imply he had anything against transgendered people, he is actually stating something that is actually fact. "Women have vaginas" I don't believe he has stated any negatives that he believes x people arent women or altered genetalia don't count as vaginas. If anything is sounds like the most offensive thing in this situation are people's responses regarding his comments. You could even go so far as to assume his statement covers surgically-created vaginas (men who get altered) and then it isn't offensive in the slightest.
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;41130620]Well you can't really ban someone for being a cunt can you?[/QUOTE] garry does
Gabe made another post. He still doesn't understand the issue, but he apologized somewhat. [url]http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/06/21/well-that-escalated-quickly[/url] [QUOTE=gnome;41131293]Gabe is really just getting more and more bitter reactions out of people by saying something as simple as "women have vaginas" and letting them take it as far as they want. He didn't even imply he had anything against transgendered people, [B]he is actually stating something that is actually fact. [/B] "Women have vaginas" I don't believe he has stated any negatives that he believes x people arent women or altered genetalia don't count as vaginas. If anything is sounds like the most offensive thing in this situation are people's responses regarding his comments. You could even go so far as to assume his statement covers surgically-created vaginas (men who get altered) and then it isn't offensive in the slightest.[/QUOTE]Again, woman is a gender term, not a sex term.
[QUOTE=SL128;41131493]Gabe made another post. He still doesn't understand the issue, but he apologized. [url]http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/06/21/well-that-escalated-quickly[/url] Again, woman is a gender term, not a sex term.[/QUOTE] If you have a vagina you either are a woman or want to be a woman, I don't get your point. Who said anything about sex? I'm talking about a body part.
I'm really hoping its not but that "apology" just seems more like "sorry that YOU had a problem with what i said i still see no wrong in what i did" [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=gnome;41131550]If you have a vagina you either are a woman or want to be a woman, I don't get your point. Who said anything about sex? I'm talking about a body part.[/QUOTE] not every woman wants to have a vagina [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] and not every transwoman plans on getting one
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41131555]I'm really hoping its not but that "apology" just seems more like "sorry that YOU had a problem with what i said i still see no wrong in what i did" [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] not every woman wants to have a vagina [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] and not every transwoman plans on getting one[/QUOTE] So they get it reshaped into a penis and then it's no longer a vagina, I still don't understand what you're getting at. I'm talking about things as they are implied to be or look like. If you have a penis made to be a vagina and don't want to be identified as a woman by Gabe then don't call it a vagina. Because it's not one or whatever. Whatever way you want it, you can have it, I really don't care. Nobody ever said anything about what does or doesn't qualify as a vagina.
[QUOTE=gnome;41131550]If you have a vagina you either are a woman or want to be a woman, I don't get your point. Who said anything about sex? I'm talking about a body part.[/QUOTE] Sex is the biological definition, male or female. The body part has more of a role there, even though there are still some syndromes that create exceptions to "ovaries = female, testes = male" as a rule. Gender is more cultural and social, so being a woman doesn't require female gentailia. [QUOTE=gnome;41131576]So they get it reshaped into a penis and then it's no longer a vagina, I still don't understand what you're getting at. I'm talking about things as they are implied to be or look like. If you have a penis made to be a vagina and don't want to be identified as a woman by Gabe then don't call it a vagina. Because it's not one or whatever. Whatever way you want it, you can have it, I really don't care.[/QUOTE] It doesn't have to be reshaped. Sex and gender aren't the same thing. That's where transgendered people come in. They identify as the gender that isn't usually associated with their sex. They don't have any surgery.
Oh boy another one of these. Just look at how many pages it's got :rolleyes:
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