"I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
1,221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=gnome;41131576]So they get it reshaped into a penis and then it's no longer a vagina, I still don't understand what you're getting at. I'm talking about things as they are implied to be or look like. If you have a penis made to be a vagina and don't want to be identified as a woman by Gabe then don't call it a vagina. Because it's not one or whatever. Whatever way you want it, you can have it, I really don't care.
Nobody ever said anything about what does or doesn't qualify as a vagina.[/QUOTE]
i was saying that not every transwoman plans on getting a vagina in her lifetime, it doesn't remove her "being a woman" card.
which is what gabe seems to think
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;41131586]Sex is the biological definition, male or female. The body part has more of a role there, even though there are still some syndromes that create exceptions to "ovaries = female, testes = male" as a rule. Gender is more cultural and social, so being a woman doesn't require female gentailia.
It doesn't have to be reshaped. Sex and gender aren't the same thing. That's where transgendered people come in. They identify as the gender that isn't usually associated with their sex. They don't have any surgery.[/QUOTE]
Why can't people just be people? It seems to me that you and many more like you are the ones forcing gender to be a social thing. Why even ask to be identified as a woman or a man if the mentality of it has absolutely nothing to do with the physicality of it? Why even care?
[QUOTE=gnome;41131642]Why can't people just be people? It seems to me that you and many more like you are the ones forcing gender to be a social thing. Why even asked to be identified as a woman if the mentality of it has absolutely nothing to do with the physicality of it? Why even care?[/QUOTE]
because i, and many other transpeople, could give a fuck about anyone else gender or forcing it or social roles or ANYTHING
we just want to be who we feel like we are
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41131656]because i, and many other transpeople, could give a fuck about anyone else gender or forcing it or social roles or ANYTHING
we just want to be who we feel like we are[/QUOTE]
Fine with me, but I am a bit confused by this post.
By replying "because I" it implies you do care what people identify you as, but then you don't because you "could give a fuck" so there are no fucks given? Or many opportunities for fucks given?
*shrug*
enlighten me, I'm interested
[QUOTE=gnome;41131713]Fine with me, but I am a bit confused by this post.
By replying "because I" it implies you do care what people identify you as, but then you don't because you "could give a fuck" so there are no fucks given? Or many opportunities for fucks given?
*shrug*
enlighten me, I'm interested[/QUOTE]
i care what people identify me as, what i don't care about is how im somehow enforcing gender roles or forcing it on people or whatever
i just want to be a girl, and i also want to be myself. for me that means being a girl with a dick and im fine with that.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41123928]
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("We use capitals in this forum" - Starpluck))[/highlight][/QUOTE]
I would like to report [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1278058&p=41015783&highlight=#post41015783]this post[/url] for immediate moderation:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fxBz93l.png[/img]
Should I use spam, warez, or flaming/trolling?
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41131767]I would like to report [url=http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1278058&p=41015783&highlight=#post41015783]this post[/url] for immediate moderation:
[img]http://i.imgur.com/fxBz93l.png[/img]
Should I use spam, warez, or flaming/trolling?[/QUOTE]
Sarcastic/funny posts have to be lowercase, it doesn't have the same effect the other way.
[QUOTE=Eudoxia;41131799]Sarcastic/funny posts have to be lowercase, it doesn't have the same effect the other way.[/QUOTE]
Let's test:
starpluck is a good mod
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("This isn't the place for bitching about moderators" - postal))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41131766]i care what people identify me as, what i don't care about is how im somehow enforcing gender roles or forcing it on people or whatever
i just want to be a girl, and i also want to be myself. for me that means being a girl with a dick and im fine with that.[/QUOTE]
Why can't you just be a person with the qualities that define you? Why does any of it have to be related to a vague social construct that was originally based off gender? It seems to me you'd be better off ignoring gender roles altogether and forget about the labels.
[QUOTE=Zeke129;41131824]Let's test:
starpluck is a good mod[/QUOTE]
Rated funny for lowercase.
[QUOTE=gnome;41131847]Why can't you just be a person with the qualities that define you? Why does any of it have to be related to a vague social construct that was originally based off gender? It seems to me you'd be better off ignoring gender roles altogether and forget about the labels.[/QUOTE]
because i want the label, i find comfort and peace in being "female" "girl" etc
[editline]21st June 2013[/editline]
it makes me feel a lot more calm and less like something is just constantly wrong, like i don't get this anxious feeling and anxiety from feeling like something is majorly wrong like i did when i wasn't transitioning
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41131918]because i want the label, i find comfort and peace in being "female" "girl" etc[/QUOTE]
And people are willing to give you that label. But very often they will essentially mentally stay on - in transition until you finish the transition to a certain level. Said level usually being SRS.
The in transition is rarely considered an insult, but more of an indication of an ongoing process. But at the same time unless you get to the end of the process, some might not play very well with language or expectations of people.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;41131981]And people are willing to give you that label. But very often they will essentially mentally stay on - in transition until you finish the transition to a certain level. Said level usually being SRS.
The in transition is rarely considered an insult, but more of an indication of an ongoing process. But at the same time unless you get to the end of the process, some might not play very well with language or expectations of people.[/QUOTE]
i shouldn't have to get srs to be considered a girl. i'm a girl because i identify as one. regardless of how far or behind i am in transition
also you never technically "finish" transition
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41131918]because i want the label, i find comfort and peace in being "female" "girl" etc[/QUOTE]
I kind of have nothing to say to that other than "too bad". I see nothing good coming of giving that many fucks what people think in any scenario (not just referring to transgenderism)
People in society are going to call you what they are going to call you. If you can "fool" them (I put that in quotes so I don't offend you hopefully) then by all means, go for it. But you can't expect everyone go refer to you as "her" right after meeting you if you neither look, act, or talk like a person of female gender. But if you have to stop someone mid-conversation every time you meet a new person to tell them what word they should casually use to refer to you in passing, then I'm glad I don't have to be there for those conversations. Like it sucks but that's life. People are going to categorize, and unfortunately many centuries ago being a man or a woman was written into our social constructs. You can either choose to ignore that or suffer caring too much about it because it's going to bite you in the ass eventually.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41131918]because i want the label, i find comfort and peace in being "female" "girl" etc
[editline]21st June 2013[/editline]
it makes me feel a lot more calm and less like something is just constantly wrong, like i don't get this anxious feeling and anxiety from feeling like something is majorly wrong like i did when i wasn't transitioning[/QUOTE]
What if it's the [I]"craving"[/I] for the right label that's tearing you apart, and everybody mistaken it is just a side effect?
[QUOTE=gnome;41132019]I kind of have nothing to say to that other than "too bad". I see nothing good coming of giving that many fucks what people think in any scenario (not just referring to transgenderism)
People in society are going to call you what they are going to call you. If you can "fool" them (I put that in quotes so I don't offend you hopefully) then by all means, go for it. But you can't expect everyone go refer to you as "her" right after meeting you if you neither look, act, or talk like a person of female gender. But if you have to stop someone mid-conversation every time you meet a new person to tell them what word they should casually use to refer to you in passing, then I'm glad I don't have to be there for those conversations. Like it sucks but that's life. People are going to categorize, and unfortunately many centuries ago being a man or a woman was written into our social constructs. You can either choose to ignore that or suffer caring too much about it because it's going to bite you in the ass eventually.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you've met many transpeople. The few that I've met do look, act, and talk naturally for their gender.
EDIT: Here,
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41124253]these are all your average trans women
[IMG]http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/16/55/31/3855989/3/628x471.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3121978520/58b107dc631829c2103a1d3619fa0423.jpeg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://www.styleite.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/thumb70.jpg[/IMG]
this isn't
[IMG]http://www.culture24.org.uk/asset_arena/6/48/47/174846/v0_master.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Neo Kabuto;41132077]I don't think you've met many transpeople. The few that I've met don't have look, act, and talk naturally for their gender.
EDIT: Here,[/QUOTE]
I live in Eugene, Oregon, they are all around me actually.
What you're showing me is irrelevant anyway. I can clearly see that they are all attempting to "be female" (whatever that means at this junction) so I would really just refer to them as that so as not to offend what they are implying. That's based off first impressions. If someone says to call them one thing or another, I'll do that because it must be important to them. I'm just saying that it shouldn't be when you are denying a social concept and then at the same time supporting it.
I am saying that if you don't look like a woman, talk like a woman, act like a woman (this is all based off a social construct you are supporting, none of those things really mean anything to me), and you also have a penis and want to be called a woman, people are going to be confused. That's to be expected.
[QUOTE=Van-man;41132053]What if it's the [I]"craving"[/I] for the right label that's tearing you apart, and everybody mistaken it is just a side effect?[/QUOTE]
its not a craving for a label, its just a label that makes me feel comfortable with myself
if having no label like gnome is proposing or w/e made me comfortable i'd do that.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132277]its not a craving for a label, its just a label that makes me feel comfortable with myself
if having no label like gnome is proposing or w/e made me comfortable i'd do that.[/QUOTE]
Isnt that craving
[QUOTE=EnlightenDead;41132306]Isnt that craving[/QUOTE]
no? its trying to be comfortable in my own skin
why does this always come back to someone talking about labels and social gender and all that other shit
can't i just be a girl in peace
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132339]no?
why does this always come back to someone talking about labels and social gender and all that other shit
can't i just be a girl in peace[/QUOTE]
You're living in just a little bit of a paradox. No, apparently you cannot, because you are the one applying value to the label that comes from the things you just denounced. Labels and social gender is what we're talking about, and it is apparently the only thing that bothers you. Your concept of self must be very fragile if it relies completely on what other people say.
[QUOTE=cecilbdemodded;41115474]Any time you find yourself saying things like "All..." or "Every..." in regards to humans YOU'RE WRONG. All of those kinds of blanket statements are always factually incorrect.[/QUOTE]
Every human being has at one point existed.
Checkmate
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132006]i shouldn't have to get srs to be considered a girl. i'm a girl because i identify as one. regardless of how far or behind i am in transition
also you never technically "finish" transition[/QUOTE]
The problem is that goes against what many other people consider to be part of gender identity. I personally consider the two to be relatively intrinsically merged, it's an opinion, a personal one, but one I feel is shared by very many people as well.
And again no one is denying you that right. But at the same time you have to understand it from the perspective of other people who are not transgender. It's the whole gender|sex segregated locker thing again obviously, but it's not something one can just erase.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132339]no? its trying to be comfortable in my own skin
why does this always come back to someone talking about labels and social gender and all that other shit
can't i just be a girl in peace[/QUOTE]
In most situations? Yes. In some situations - no, or not until something happens. No offense but if you're MtoF and enter into a space where other women really don't expect male sex organs and it's a place where sex organs might get shown you might run into issues.
Same goes for FtoM in strict male spaces and other things. There's essentially times when whatever your outward sex appearance is, will take precendence to your gender identity among very many people.
[QUOTE=gnome;41132375]You're living in just a little bit of a paradox. No, apparently you cannot, because you are the one applying value to the label that comes from the things you just denounced. Labels and social gender is what we're talking about, and it is apparently the only thing that bothers you. Your concept of self must be very fragile if it relies completely on what other people say.[/QUOTE]
dude wtf i just want to be a girl
this has nothing to do with my concept of self or any of that shit
jesus fucking christ
So is the problem people who don't differentiate between gender and sex? The only reason I ever found out that there is a difference between man and male/woman and female is because I took a class in psychology. Seems a bit crazy people get so mad when you mix the terms up.
[QUOTE=gnome;41132375]You're living in just a little bit of a paradox. No, apparently you cannot, because you are the one applying value to the label that comes from the things you just denounced. Labels and social gender is what we're talking about, and it is apparently the only thing that bothers you. Your concept of self must be very fragile if it relies completely on what other people say.[/QUOTE]
If you use the wrong label for a trans person you're basically saying they're not who they know they are, so effectively they don't exist. Being told you don't exist isn't pleasant.
Also, it's easy to say "well just go without a label, not a big deal", when you yourself can easily apply the label that suits you without you or anyone else having to think about it.
So, from what I've gathered, Gabe isn't insulting, nor does he intend to insult, rational and not fucking retarded transpeople.
His tweet seems like it's calling off all of the people that are throwing death threats and insults at him.
[QUOTE=milkandcooki;41132489]So, from what I've gathered, Gabe isn't insulting, nor does he intend to insult, rational and not fucking retarded transpeople.
His tweet seems like it's calling off all of the people that are throwing death threats and insults at him.[/QUOTE]
kind of, but the way he called out the ones who were doing that was just straight up insulting trans people as a whole
he was essentially saying you're not a woman without a vagina just to make people mad and be antagonistic, no other reason.
[QUOTE=Tweevle;41132473]If you use the wrong label for a trans person you're basically saying they're not who they know they are, so effectively they don't exist. Being told you don't exist isn't pleasant.
Also, it's easy to say "well just go without a label, not a big deal", when you yourself can easily apply the label that suits you without you or anyone else having to think about it.[/QUOTE]
Hahah no... it's not saying that at all... my god. See unfortunately we must use conjunctional nouns when referring to people in the third person, like "him" and "her" and that's just an unfortunate circumstance because we can't call someone an "it" because that sounds like an inanimate object. If anything you are being told you exist, it's just entirely possible it's not in the way that you want to because you are letting words define you apparently.
How are other people not supposed to think about it when its brought up so regularly?
I have in fact a distinct memory of a person who was very much transgender who I saw at quite a few parties and houses I kicked it at, and I don't have a single recollection of his/her gender ever being brought up. I'm not even sure what they were, and I had no problem with that. I'm [i]pretty[/i] certain that it was a transgender male, but I've never inquired because it never mattered to me.
[QUOTE=wraithcat;41132439]
In most situations? Yes. In some situations - no, or not until something happens. No offense but if you're MtoF and enter into a space where other women really don't expect male sex organs and it's a place where sex organs might get shown you might run into issues.
Same goes for FtoM in strict male spaces and other things. There's essentially times when whatever your outward sex appearance is, will take precendence to your gender identity among very many people.[/QUOTE]
it isn't my fault, nor the fault of my genitals, that someone can't handle me being different from them. i'm still a woman, i still belong in exclusively female places.
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