• "I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
    1,221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132458]dude wtf i just want to be a girl this has nothing to do with my concept of self or any of that shit jesus fucking christ[/QUOTE] You are a girl. :)
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132593]it isn't my fault, nor the fault of my genitals, that someone can't handle me being different from them. i'm still a woman, i still belong in exclusively female places.[/QUOTE] Yeah, no.
[QUOTE=gnome;41132579]Hahah no... it's not saying that at all... my god. See unfortunately we must use conjunctional nouns when referring to people in the third person, like "him" and "her" and that's just an unfortunate circumstance because we can't call someone an "it" because that sounds like an inanimate object. If anything you are being told you exist, it's just entirely possible it's not in the way that you want to because you are letting words define you apparently.[/QUOTE] I know it's most likely not intended that way, but that's how it'll come across. Words have an effect, using the wrong words convey the idea that something really deep and personal about this person is untrue, so this person's identity is a lie, and without an identity who are we as people? [QUOTE=gnome;41132579] How are other people not supposed to think about it when its brought up so regularly?.[/QUOTE] I mean you. Assuming you're a guy, people refer to you as him and a man, and that's fine with you, you don't even have to think about it, because the label fits you, more or less. So, for you, labels aren't an issue, gender doesn't matter to you, because you've never had to deal with consistently not being called by the label that fits you, or be expected to be in a gender you're not. From that position, you can tell people not to worry about words defining you and just be genderless, because you've not been in a place where your gender is something massively important to you. It's like money, it's only something you worry about if you don't have it. Tbh, you don't necessarily have to understand it, just be respectful and accepting that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean your experience is all encompassing to other people. (This might sound a bit patronising, sorry if that's the case, I don't know how else to say it).
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41132757]Yeah, no.[/QUOTE] Im sorry, Next time i see an exclusively female place, I'll be sure EVERYONE has a vagina before they even think about entering. Can't let those tranny rapists through.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132849]Im sorry, Next time i see an exclusively female place, I'll be sure EVERYONE has a vagina before they even think about entering. Can't let those tranny rapists through.[/QUOTE] Don't have to be a dick about it.
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41133100]Don't have to be a dick about it.[/QUOTE] you're being disrespectful to people who are GSMs, dude. don't call the kettle black
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41133100]Don't have to be a dick about it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mobrockers;41132757]Yeah, no.[/QUOTE] You're such a fucking hypocrite and I don't know what compels you to come in threads like these and constantly embarrass yourself. For your sake and ours, please stop.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41133122]you're being disrespectful to people who are GSMs, dude. don't call the kettle black[/QUOTE] I wasn't being serious. And the other comment was about [quote] i'm still a woman, i still belong in exclusively female places. [/quote] She's doesn't belong there. Not yet anyways. We have rules about that sort of thing and right now she doesn't belong in exclusively female places especially when nudity is involved. She might want that to be true, and feel like it should be, but it just isn't right now. [editline]22nd June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;41133159]You're such a fucking hypocrite and I don't know what compels you to come in threads like these and constantly embarrass yourself. For your sake and ours, please stop.[/QUOTE] I wasn't being serious. I know my comment was harsh and deserved that zinger.
[QUOTE=Tweevle;41132813]I know it's most likely not intended that way, but that's how it'll come across. Words have an effect, using the wrong words convey the idea that something really deep and personal about this person is untrue, so this person's identity is a lie, and without an identity who are we as people? I mean you. Assuming you're a guy, people refer to you as him and a man, and that's fine with you, you don't even have to think about it, because the label fits you, more or less. So, for you, labels aren't an issue, gender doesn't matter to you, because you've never had to deal with consistently not being called by the label that fits you, or be expected to be in a gender you're not. From that position, you can tell people not to worry about words defining you and just be genderless, because you've not been in a place where your gender is something massively important to you. It's like money, it's only something you worry about if you don't have it. Tbh, you don't necessarily have to understand it, just be respectful and accepting that just because you don't understand it doesn't mean your experience is all encompassing to other people. (This might sound a bit patronising, sorry if that's the case, I don't know how else to say it).[/QUOTE] I actually respect your tonality more than you think, I didn't feel patronized by what you're saying and I completely get what you're digging at. I'm just saying that this entire thing is a circular loop of logic (or seems that way in my perspective), and I don't think anyone really benefits from creating themselves solely from the words of other people. If you know you're a girl then what someone says to you shouldn't matter. I know who I am, and if the entire world told me otherwise I'd tell them to shove it up their ass and then keep doing what I do. That's just me though, you are correct, and how I feel about it doesn't necessarily mean anything for other people, but believe it or not the words I am speaking I only mean with the best of intentions. Let me try and identify in the one way I can (this relates to first impressions and the relevancy of what people around us think). I am 23 years old and I look like a weasely little 15 year old fucknut (and as someone here once put it, my face makes me look like a burn victim). When I meet someone that is absolutely their first impression of me, and when I walk into a liquor store every employee is staring and ready to chase me (some even approach me for my ID before I reach the counter). I understand what it is to be confronted with something that is probably just as seamlessly woven into everyday life as gender, and that is age and the respect that results from it. Think I want to walk around knowing that everybody's first identifying thought is "why isn't he in school?" What came from this is a much more ambitious, much more dynamic version of myself I had to build myself from scratch with barely any input from other people, and this could only be achieved by first disregarding all the things that would normally bother me to the point of becoming a total recluse. The idea I believe you are perpetuating is that you can't be somebody without other people either implementing or supporting the concept that makes you who you are. I strongly disagree, and hopefully this makes me sound less like a bitter dickhead about this issue and maybe in some way shows you what I mean when I say that people shouldn't be in total control of your personality or your ego. So you can take that any way you want, but understand that I only want for everybody what I believe to be a beneficial way of thinking.
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41133192]I wasn't being serious. And the other comment was about She's doesn't belong there. Not yet anyways. We have rules about that sort of thing and right now she doesn't belong in exclusively female places especially when nudity is involved. She might want that to be true, and feel like it should be, but it just isn't right now. [editline]22nd June 2013[/editline] I wasn't being serious. I know my comment was harsh and deserved that zinger.[/QUOTE] Backpdeal harder. Yes I have EVERY right to be in a female place even when nudity is involved. Personally I wouldn't go to one if there was something like rape victims involved because I wouldn't want them to think anything bad by seeing my dick, but I still have every right to be there. Last time I checked the signs say "Women only" not "Vagina only"
'gender and/or sexual minority'
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41133360]Backpdeal harder. Yes I have EVERY right to be in a female place even when nudity is involved. Personally I wouldn't go to one if there was something like rape victims involved because I wouldn't want them to think anything bad by seeing my dick, but I still have every right to be there. Last time I checked the signs say "Women only" not "Vagina only"[/QUOTE] Very well then, but if you're going to disrespect other peoples feelings don't expect them to respect yours.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41132593]it isn't my fault, nor the fault of my genitals, that someone can't handle me being different from them. i'm still a woman, i still belong in exclusively female places.[/QUOTE] I thought gender and sex were supposed to be separate. Why would you belong in exclusively female places if you aren't a female?
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41133445]Very well then, but if you're going to disrespect other peoples feelings don't expect them to respect yours.[/QUOTE] So I can't disrespect their feelings, but they can freely disrespect mine? And I have no say in this because of whats in my pants? Alright, I'll just go to the back of the buss again. Good to know that's how it is. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41133472]I thought gender and sex were supposed to be separate. Why would you belong in exclusively female places if you aren't a female?[/QUOTE] Because I may not be female in my sex, But i'm female in my gender. Its a place for Females, not for Vaginas. Hell by that logic even if i got SRS I still wouldn't be allowed in. What would be the issue then?
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41133476] Because I may not be female in my sex, But i'm female in my gender. Its a place for Females, not for Vaginas. Hell by that logic even if i got SRS I still wouldn't be allowed in. What would be the issue then?[/QUOTE] A female is a person with two X chromosomes, just saying you're a female doesn't make you one. If gender and sex are separate, then how are you equating them to mean the same thing?
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41133360]Backpdeal harder. Yes I have EVERY right to be in a female place even when nudity is involved. Personally I wouldn't go to one if there was something like rape victims involved because I wouldn't want them to think anything bad by seeing my dick, but I still have every right to be there. Last time I checked the signs say "Women only" not "Vagina only"[/QUOTE] To be honest if you were waltzing around somewhere Women only nude and showing off your penis, I think that would probably make many clientèle/members of the public uncomfortable in the current day to day of the world. If you're showering at a pool and a mother has to explain to her daughter why that woman's genitals look different to hers you're causing a situation that potentially causes distress, for you or the mother and child. The problem is that 'Woman' and 'Man' in current society is synonymous with 'Vagina' and 'Penis' and that is unlikely to change for a good deal of time until a way is discovered of accommodating genders regardless of sexual characteristics in a way that people will not feel discriminated or uncomfortable.
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41133534]A female is a person with two X chromosomes, just saying you're a female doesn't make you one. If gender and sex are separate, then how are you equating them to mean the same thing?[/QUOTE] [video=youtube;yuXL-3eoB-o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuXL-3eoB-o[/video] I guess this person doesn't belong in female spaces. Huh? (She has [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome"]AIS[/URL] but I don't think those xy genes would make you question her being a female.)
[QUOTE=gnome;41133316]I actually respect your tonality more than you think, I didn't feel patronized by what you're saying and I completely get what you're digging at. I'm just saying that this entire thing is a circular loop of logic (or seems that way in my perspective), and I don't think anyone really benefits from creating themselves solely from the words of other people. If you know you're a girl then what someone says to you shouldn't matter. I know who I am, and if the entire world told me otherwise I'd tell them to shove it up their ass and then keep doing what I do. That's just me though, you are correct, and how I feel about it doesn't necessarily mean anything for other people, but believe it or not the words I am speaking I only mean with the best of intentions.[/QUOTE] Thank you! And well, in an ideal world, yeah, people wouldn't be bothered about what other people say and everyone could just be who they liked without a care. But that's not how people are, at least not at the moment. You're lucky enough to be a person able to not really care what people think about you, and I'm glad for you, but you can't expect everyone else to be like that, and nor should they have to. By saying people shouldn't care and not worry about gender and labels and everything, while you may have good intentions, you basically come across as trivializing the suffering and feelings they experience all the time. They can't just "turn it off", emotions don't work like that. I'm sure most if not all trans people if given opportunity to not mind when someone misgenders them they'd take it, but that's not how it works and so it's not unreasonable to expect people to give them basic respect and refer to them how they wish to be. Also, you're kind of expecting more from trans people than anyone else. Cis people get to be labelled in a way that's appropriate for them without people saying they should just not care what people think of them in regards to that and be genderless. Why should trans people have to be the only people to automatically bear the brunt of challenging gender roles, not being tied to any gender and not caring what people think of them? Most of them just want to live their lives in peace as they kind of person they are, and be respected in that, just like anyone else. I hope that makes sense.
[QUOTE=Ereunity;41133561]To be honest if you were waltzing around somewhere Women only nude and showing off your penis, I think that would probably make many clientèle/members of the public uncomfortable in the current day to day of the world. If you're showering at a pool and a mother has to explain to her daughter why that woman's genitals look different to hers you're causing a situation that potentially causes distress, for you or the mother and child. The problem is that 'Woman' and 'Man' in current society is synonymous with 'Vagina' and 'Penis' and that is unlikely to change for a good deal of time until a way is discovered of accommodating genders regardless of sexual characteristics in a way that people will not feel discriminated or uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] OH NO A PENIS WHATEVER SHALL I DO There wouldn't be any "distress" if we actually taught children about nudity, gender, and sexuality and same goes for the majority of the population. Seeing genitals makes you uncomfortable? Well this person is so uncomfortable with their own body that they want to kill themselves. I think they deserve a bit more recognition.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41133476]So I can't disrespect their feelings, but they can freely disrespect mine? And I have no say in this because of whats in my pants? Alright, I'll just go to the back of the buss again. Good to know that's how it is. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] Because I may not be female in my sex, But i'm female in my gender. Its a place for Females, not for Vaginas. Hell by that logic even if i got SRS I still wouldn't be allowed in. What would be the issue then?[/QUOTE] Oh boohoo I'm not allowed to go in the bathroom of the other sex, I'm being oppressed like the blacks used to be :(:( Bathroom facilities are sex divided, not gender divided, get over it.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41133586] I guess this person doesn't belong in female spaces. Huh? (She has [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome"]AIS[/URL] but I don't think those xy genes would make you question her being a female.)[/QUOTE] She may have both X and Y chromasomes but only the X is being fully expressed, it's effectively the same thing as being born female.
[QUOTE=Ereunity;41133561]To be honest if you were waltzing around somewhere Women only nude and showing off your penis, I think that would probably make many clientèle/members of the public uncomfortable in the current day to day of the world. If you're showering at a pool and a mother has to explain to her daughter why that woman's genitals look different to hers you're causing a situation that potentially causes distress, for you or the mother and child. The problem is that 'Woman' and 'Man' in current society is synonymous with 'Vagina' and 'Penis' and that is unlikely to change for a good deal of time until a way is discovered of accommodating genders regardless of sexual characteristics in a way that people will not feel discriminated or uncomfortable.[/QUOTE] I didn't mean waltzing around with my penis out. But if i'm at some womens gym I expect to be able to go to the locker room.
[QUOTE=HumanAbyss;41118183]for a guy who literally only posts about how shitty people are in threads, i don't see why this doesn't apply to you [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Flaming" - MaxOfS2D))[/highlight][/QUOTE] expressing opinions using a swear indirectly is flaming, be careful. :downs:
[QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41133649]She may have both X and Y chromasomes but only the X is being fully expressed, it's effectively the same thing as being born female.[/QUOTE] But you said a female is someone with two X chromosomes. Now apparently that's not true in all cases?
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41133631]Oh boohoo I'm not allowed to go in the bathroom of the other sex, I'm being oppressed like the blacks used to be :(:( Bathroom facilities are sex divided, not gender divided, get over it.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=mobrockers;41133100]Don't have to be a dick about it.[/QUOTE] [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=MegaChalupa;41133649]She may have both X and Y chromasomes but only the X is being fully expressed, it's effectively the same thing as being born female.[/QUOTE] Backpedal and move the goalposts harder. She has male chromosomes so either admit you were wrong or stop embarrassing yourself.
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41133631]Oh boohoo I'm not allowed to go in the bathroom of the other sex, I'm being oppressed like the blacks used to be :(:( Bathroom facilities are sex divided, not gender divided, get over it.[/QUOTE] So you expect me to go to the males bathroom as a female? Been there done that brockers, Don't feel like being threatened with my life for being a "fucking freak" again.
[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;41133673][editline]21st June 2013[/editline] Backpedal and move the goalposts harder. She has male chromosomes so either admit you were wrong or stop embarrassing yourself.[/QUOTE] No I am going to be a dick about it when you feel your personal problems have to affect other people.
[QUOTE=Tweevle;41133672]But you said a female is someone with two X chromosomes. Now apparently that's not true in all cases?[/QUOTE] If the only chromosome being expressed is the X, it's the exact same thing as having two X chromosomes. [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;41133673] Backpedal and move the goalposts harder. She has male chromosomes so either admit you were wrong or stop embarrassing yourself.[/QUOTE] Okay, I made a mistake, despite having an X and Y chromosome she still is phenotypically female. The Y chromosome isn't being expressed, so she is a biological female.
[QUOTE=Skelmech;41133705]So you expect me to go to the males bathroom as a female? Been there done that brockers, Don't feel like being threatened with my life for being a "fucking freak" again.[/QUOTE] You're not female, you're a woman. Female is the sex remember. Also why would your life be threatened?
[QUOTE=mobrockers;41133714]No I am going to be a dick about it when you feel your personal problems have to affect other people.[/QUOTE] Affect other people in what way, exactly? That they have to share a bathroom with a transsexual? Maybe people should grow the fuck up. Calling transgenderism a "personal problem" is trivializing the issue. [editline]21st June 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=mobrockers;41133727]You're not female, you're a woman. Female is the sex remember. Also why would your life be threatened?[/QUOTE] Do you know ANYTHING about gender dysphoria? Serious question.
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