"I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
1,221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Scot;41115957]Well then I guess I'm just cis scum.[/QUOTE]
no, you're opinionated and ignorant. it's not entirely your fault that you don't understand gender politics, but it's still annoying and caustic when you wave it off as "tumblr bullshit"
[editline]20th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Ogris;41115977]He's got a point. Before the tumblr bullshit explosion nobody gave a damn. [/QUOTE]
except millions of people. gender politics existed before tumblr. all tumblr's done is raise awareness
[QUOTE=ZuXer;41115532]I got no quarrel with [b]transgenders[/b], whatever flicks your switch man, just don't be a dick about it, like these guys.[/quote]
Great, dehumanized right off the bat, now I KNOW this is gonna be good.
[QUOTE=ZuXer;41115532]Also, strictly from a biological standpoint, there are two sexes, male and female, no matter what you do you will stick that, because you have a XY or XX chromosome. And it will stay that way, no matter what your internet circlejerk says.[/QUOTE]
Alright lets get this shit straightened out:
By that logic, folks with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome=]AIS[/url] are male. They're completely identical to females in every way, save for that Y chromosome, and deformed overies.
You're telling me that all [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Orchids01.JPG/800px-Orchids01.JPG]these ladies[/url] are dudes, and should be treated as such? And I'm not going to even go into intersex folk, and a good deal of other occurrences that throw out the idea of male/female being two totally separate biological templates. In truth, you get a good portion of folks that are in-between gender-wise/sex-wise because reproduction isn't perfect, and there'll always be some folks with faulty genetics/other stuff that'll cause them to grow up/develop that way.
And thank you so fucking much for reinforcing the fact that I can't ever be a "biological" women, it's something most of us are reminded of every goddamn day. Every time I look into the mirror, every time someone uses my guy-name, every time someone says "he" or "him, every time I see other women congregate and know I'd never fully fit in with them, every time I'd love to ask a lady passing by where they got that cute skirt but I hold my tongue because asking such a thing sounds fucking creepy coming from this meek fat dude, every time I speak or use this deep as shit voice, every time I'm forced to go into the men's room, every time I see a pregnant lady and grow envious as shit, every fucking time I have this point hammered into my brain, and you and a whole lot of other ignoramuses mention shit like this helps cement this point into my mind just a tiny bit further, and it all adds up to a fact I'll never forget or let go for as long as I live.
Like I really needed any help with that, after 21 years of having the fact that I'll never bear children be seared into my hippocampus. I just want to eventually live life as a girl, and hopefully never be reminded of who/what I used to be, but every time I see a post like that it reminds me that there're people that'll always be there to remind me of the shitty parts of me I'll never be able to change.
I apologize for ranting on like this, I think it's all starting to grind on me.
it's like, if you had a friend in a weelchair who used the word 'walk' when describing going anywhere, because it felt empowering to him, and was mentally crushed whenever someone reminded him he wasn't walking
[QUOTE=Ogris;41115977]He's got a point. Before the tumblr bullshit explosion nobody gave a damn. Now everybody goes on about cis/trans. It's like a meme only fifty billion times worse.
Look at transgender people in real life and see how they handle it; and then compare it to how it's handled here.
It's a joke.[/QUOTE]
noone gave racism a second thought before activists pushed through
eh?
the problems arising around gender and sex are actually serious and i think you don't understand this
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41115874]'Black' (referring to Sub-Saharan African) individuals are black for a lot more reasons than their skin colour. Individuals of that race actually have a different facial structure.
Not to mention the HUGE topic of genetics.[/QUOTE]
Well yeah it depends on what you mean by black.
To me, being "black" means actually having a black skin colour, rather than it just being a blanket term covering a bunch of usually dark-coloured ethnicities.
If I saw an albino "black" person I wouldn't describe them as black.
[QUOTE=Dori;41115983]no, you're opinionated and ignorant. it's not entirely your fault that you don't understand gender politics, but it's still annoying and caustic when you wave it off as "tumblr bullshit"
[editline]20th June 2013[/editline]
except millions of people[/QUOTE]
Oh so if people have different opinions or think differently than you then they are ignorant and dumb.
See, this is why this whole thing is met with hostility. To be honest, no one cares what you'd like to hump, or get humped by. But when you go off to be a vocal retard about it, rubbing it in their faces, and then anyone who speaks up against it is commiting hate crime or something. This entire thing is blown way out of proportion.
[QUOTE=icemaz;41115398]Why is cis used negatively then?[/QUOTE]
if you don't have it bad then you must be bad yourself
tumblr logic
i think what most people need to get into their heads is that most trans people dont give a shit, really. the vocal minority fucks us all over, and those fake tumblrs like dear-cis-people are goddamn awful. i can guarantee most transwomen are okay with the game because we know how to masturbate. the game's essentially a vagina manual. and its also perfectly okay for someone to be upset at someone like gabe, someone who people look up to, says these unwavering blanket statements about people. everyone needs to stop getting upset over the word cis too, its a word used to describe the majority of people who identify as their sex. laughing at people getting upset about words is a little silly when you also get upset by a benign word, is it not? i, nor any of my other trans friends, have used to word cis negatively. its just a short word to describe people not like us.
[QUOTE=Dori;41115983]no, you're opinionated and ignorant. it's not entirely your fault that you don't understand gender politics, but it's still annoying and caustic when you wave it off as "tumblr bullshit"
[/QUOTE]
do you realize how self-righteous this makes you sound
"it's not your fault you don't understand [I]but you're still wrong and annoying[/I]" is probably the most presumptuous thing you could say in response to a person who has already said they don't
[QUOTE=ZuXer;41116027]Oh so if people have different opinions or think differently than you then they are ignorant and dumb.[/QUOTE]
being a bigot isn't just having a differing opinion
[QUOTE=oskramorir;41115894]People with an Y chromosome are men.[/QUOTE]
No. Even sex in the very biological sense of the word is not dependent on a single on/off switch and there are many many possibilities. Of course gender is much more fluid, but people seem to have this inaccurate notion that sex is an either/or concept. It is not. I would like to refer you to my earlier post about various genetic conditions, such as Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome or 5-alpha-reductase deficiency where you can genetically be of one sex while physically being another and any variation in between.
[QUOTE=Doomish;41116047]do you realize how self-righteous this makes you sound
"it's not your fault you don't understand [I]but you're still wrong and annoying[/I]" is probably the most presumptuous thing you could say in response to a person who has already said they don't[/QUOTE]
good thing I didn't say that
This is disgusting, his personal opinion on something and he's getting death threats for it. This is the way to get equality and tolerance, fuck over everyone who disagrees with you.
Not to say I agree with him, but fucking wow, talk about not accepting of other people's beliefs.
[QUOTE=Xubs;41116033]you're missing the point completely
I don't even know where to begin, your opinion is just baffling[/QUOTE]
body image issues don't become sacred when mixed with sexuality
I have no problem with transgender people, but I don't think sex change is a good way to treat gender identity problems. I know a great deal of trans people and the problem is that they are pretty eager, desperate if you will to make the physical change. But gender identity crisis is a mental issue. if the psyche has a problem, why change the entire body in this most drastic way? Well, there's a load of money in it. Sex change on my opinion should be considered a last resort treatment. Most of the oeople I know didn't even try to sort out their mental issues, they just pouted their way through therapies, blocking everything out, so they could get straight to a sex change. But gender identity crisis is a disorder. people think the sex change will magically just solve all their problems, but that is often not the case and then you're stuck in a vicious circle of losing your own gender identity completely.
-snip-
[QUOTE=Dori;41115983]all tumblr's done is raise awareness[/QUOTE]
or taint the image of the gender and sexual equality movement
[QUOTE=FlubberNugget;41116025]noone gave racism a second thought before activists pushed through
eh?
the problems arising around gender and sex are actually serious and i think you don't understand this[/QUOTE]
They are serious. Arguments over applications of cis and trans however are not, especially not how you can make either of those words offensive. People are what they are; And you respect that.
I sure as fuck wont respect someone who is being incredibly pedantic over what they want to be called though; You're a man or a woman, you pick which one. But i sure as hell dont give a damn if you want me to call you a transgender man identifying as a woman.
[QUOTE=innerfire34;41115971]i'm ignorant because i think people should be gay (or straight but crossdressing or whatever) without letting your physical insecurity and inability to cope with what you were born into and what you want guide you into deciding you're going to change the meaning of scientific words to fit your worldview better
as friendly and open as gabe and that other guys email exchanges were, i can't help but feel it's ridiculous that his feelings are hurt when people [I]might[/I] think that he, as a man, is a man. so you're uncomfortable with your body, it's not really the rest of the world's job to make sure you never have to work through your own mental problems by letting you pretend.[/QUOTE]
That is just a bit cruel. You can't have empathy for people who have any kind of mental issue? What about depression? Can you not sympathize with that? I'm sure she wouldn't want to feel awful each time she thinks someone sees here as a guy in drag, but she obviously can't help it and to just let someone flop around in the wind like that is fucked even on a human to human level.
[QUOTE=RobbL;41116076]or taint the image of the gender and sexual equality movement[/QUOTE]
awareness is awareness. the only people who have had their image of the movement tainted are bigots. it's easy to avoid crazies on tumblr, but people like to point them out to invalidate the overall movement and its message
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;41116087]That is just a bit cruel. You can't have empathy for people who have any kind of mental issue? What about depression? Can you not sympathize with that? I'm sure she wouldn't want to feel awful each time she thinks someone sees here as a guy in drag, but she obviously can't help it and to just let someone flop around in the wind like that is fucked even on a human to human level.[/QUOTE]
True we should be able to feel bad for them, and we should give them the right to do as they see fit, but why should people have to support a decision based solely on a mental illness? I wish we humans could just non-aggressively disagree with things, like who cares what I think about you, I don't want to take away your rights...But that will never happen.
Note: Supporting and allowing are different things. I may think it's gross, or weird, or what have you, but I will still allow it.
[QUOTE=Levithan;41115999]Great, dehumanized right off the bat, now I KNOW this is gonna be good.
Alright lets get this shit straightened out:
By that logic, folks with [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome=]AIS[/url] are male. They're completely identical to females in every way, save for that Y chromosome, and deformed overies.
You're telling me that all [url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c0/Orchids01.JPG/800px-Orchids01.JPG]these ladies[/url] are dudes, and should be treated as such? And I'm not going to even go into intersex folk, and a good deal of other occurrences that throw out the idea of male/female being two totally separate biological templates. In truth, you get a good portion of folks that are in-between gender-wise/sex-wise because reproduction isn't perfect, and there'll always be some folks with faulty genetics/other stuff that'll cause them to grow up/develop that way.
And thank you so fucking much for reinforcing the fact that I can't ever be a "biological" women, it's something most of us are reminded of every goddamn day. Every time I look into the mirror, every time someone uses my guy-name, every time someone says "he" or "him, every time I see other women congregate and know I'd never fully fit in with them, every time I'd love to ask a lady passing by where they got that cute skirt but I hold my tongue because asking such a thing sounds fucking creepy coming from this meek fat dude, every time I speak or use this deep as shit voice, every time I'm forced to go into the men's room, every time I see a pregnant lady and grow envious as shit, every fucking time I have this point hammered into my brain, and you and a whole lot of other ignoramuses mention shit like this helps cement this point into my mind just a tiny bit further, and it all adds up to a fact I'll never forget or let go for as long as I live.
Like I really needed any help with that, after 21 years of having the fact that I'll never bear children be seared into my hippocampus. I just want to eventually live life as a girl, and hopefully never be reminded of who/what I used to be, but every time I see a post like that it reminds me that there're people that'll always be there to remind me of the shitty parts of me I'll never be able to change.
I apologize for ranting on like this, I think it's all starting to grind on me.[/QUOTE]
Uh not to shoot down the rest of your rant, but the picture you posted ARE [B]women[/B] with AIS.
I'm not sure why you would then say "You're telling me that all these ladies are dudes, and should be treated as such?".
[QUOTE=Farrelm;41116031]i think what most people need to get into their heads is that most trans people dont give a shit, really. the vocal minority fucks us all over, and those fake tumblrs like dear-cis-people are goddamn awful. i can guarantee most transwomen are okay with the game because we know how to masturbate. the game's essentially a vagina manual. and its also perfectly okay for someone to be upset at someone like gabe, someone who people look up to, says these unwavering blanket statements about people. everyone needs to stop getting upset over the word cis too, its a word used to describe the majority of people who identify as their sex. laughing at people getting upset about words is a little silly when you also get upset by a benign word, is it not? i, nor any of my other trans friends, have used to word cis negatively. its just a short word to describe people not like us.[/QUOTE]
I was starting to wonder how many people who have any good reason to be offended by this actually were.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116113]True we should be able to feel bad for them, and we should give them the right to do as they see fit, but why should people have to support a decision based solely on a mental illness? I wish we humans could just non-aggressively disagree with things, like who cares what I think about you, I don't want to take away your rights...But that will never happen.
Note: Supporting and allowing are different things. I may think it's gross, or weird, or what have you, but [B]I will still allow it.[/B][/QUOTE]
oh good as long as transgendered people have the [I]permission[/I] of the almighty lambadvanced everything is ok
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116113]True we should be able to feel bad for them, and we should give them the right to do as they see fit, but why should people have to support a decision based solely on a mental illness? I wish we humans could just non-aggressively disagree with things, like who cares what I think about you, I don't want to take away your rights...But that will never happen.
Note: Supporting and allowing are different things. I may think it's gross, or weird, or what have you, but I will still allow it.[/QUOTE]
If you could understand the thought process it probably wouldn't be gross or weird. I too don't fully understand what goes through a transgendered persons head but its obviously a real deal and something that people should sympathize with.
[QUOTE=Doomish;41116047]do you realize how self-righteous this makes you sound
"it's not your fault you don't understand [I]but you're still wrong and annoying[/I]" is probably the most presumptuous thing you could say in response to a person who has already said they don't[/QUOTE]
oh hey u met sanius
cool
I'm a science minded guy, I think we should call people by their biological sex, I don't care about gender roles, people can be whoever they want, but I don't think an arbitrary social change means anything that'll change someone's sex.
[editline]20th June 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;41116176]If you could understand the thought process it probably wouldn't be gross or weird. I too don't fully understand what goes through a transgendered persons head but its obviously a real deal and something that people should sympathize with.[/QUOTE]
Of course, I feel for them, I don't understand of course, but I feel for them in the same way I feel for people with a mental illness, I know it's not their fault, but that is also who they are and what they have to deal with.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;41115491]Followup [url]http://www.penny-arcade.com/2013/06/19/twiiter-sucks-sometimes[/url][/QUOTE] [quote]Prime example: I don’t disagree with you that I’m male. When it comes to chromosomes and genetics, that’s just what I am. But that’s not what I identify as, and for acknowledging reality some trans people have even chewed me out. It’s ridiculous.[/quote]Some of these people need to rethink their lives or something, because holy shit.
[QUOTE=Levithan;41115999]Great, dehumanized right off the bat, now I KNOW this is gonna be good.
[/QUOTE]
What?
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116186]I'm a science minded guy, I think we should call people by their biological sex, I don't care about gender roles, people can be whoever they want, but I don't think an arbitrary social change means anything that'll change someone's sex.
[editline]20th June 2013[/editline]
Of course, I feel for them, I don't understand of course, but I feel for them in the same way I feel for people with a mental illness, I know it's not their fault, but that is also who they are and what they have to deal with.[/QUOTE]
Would you ignore someone's sexual orientation? They're still human and are meant to be sexual in one way, but they're choosing to be sexual in another.
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