• "I think women have vaginas; I think you call a person with a vagina a woman." Penny Arcade's Gabe s
    1,221 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116186]I'm a science minded guy, I think we should call people by their biological sex, I don't care about gender roles, people can be whoever they want, but I don't think an arbitrary social change means anything that'll change someone's sex.[/QUOTE] So, making someone like me feel better about their gender identity isn't important enough because it isn't in the name of science? [editline]sadkkjasd[/editline] I think Science would be very disappointed in you.
Just sounds like putting people down because the science doesn't check out.
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116186]I'm a science minded guy, [B]I think we should call people by their biological sex[/B], I don't care about gender roles, people can be whoever they want, but I don't think an arbitrary social change means anything that'll change someone's sex.[/QUOTE] no. please grasp gender dysphoria before you say anything else emotionally insensitive, because you are supporting the stupid social culture that is imposed onto people who identify as trans. brushing it off with just "oh lol just call them by their biological gender" is also why people who have a different gender identity might be suicidal
[QUOTE=H4ngman;41116071]I have no problem with transgender people, but I don't think sex change is a good way to treat gender identity problems. I know a great deal of trans people and the problem is that they are pretty eager, desperate if you will to make the physical change. But gender identity crisis is a mental issue. if the psyche has a problem, why change the entire body in this most drastic way? Well, there's a load of money in it. Sex change on my opinion should be considered a last resort treatment. Most of the oeople I know didn't even try to sort out their mental issues, they just pouted their way through therapies, blocking everything out, so they could get straight to a sex change. But gender identity crisis is a disorder. people think the sex change will magically just solve all their problems, but that is often not the case and then you're stuck in a vicious circle of losing your own gender identity completely.[/QUOTE]Because its easier and more appropriate to change the body than to change the mind. Trying to force someone who is transgender to fit the gender typically associated with their sex is a very ineffective and often dangerous thing to do. Kinda like how those "Cure the gays" camps and movements have a pretty frequent occurrence of their "patients" attempting suicide, developing severe emotional and psychological trauma, and just don't work. Gender is pretty fucking hardwired in to a person. (See: John Money and David Reimer) Turns out you just made stupid assumptions with little backing because it fit a convenient and narrow view of the topic and really just said "WHY AREN'T THESE WEIRDOS [I]NORMAL[/I] LIKE ME!" There is a common rule that if you have to preface a statement with some form of "I'm not racist, but..." then whatever follows is absolutely racist. Same rule actually applies to things like sexism and transphobia. "I'm not racist, but blacks are just naturally more prone to committing crimes!" "I'm not sexist, but women just can't perform on the same level as men!" "I have no problem with transgender people, but they are all just crazy attention seekers!" I don't go around correcting everyone who refers to me as a man and acting like I've been assaulted because the clerk at the grocery store said "Sir" to me, and I don't go "CIS SCUM" at everything (In fact, that is the first time I can remember I've actually used the term "cis".) But I won't stand for people spreading bullshit misinformation about me or people like me.
[QUOTE=Soda;41115826]wow the number of facepunchers who can't differentiate between sex and gender is fucking ridiculous gender(woman/man) is a FLUID social construct which is not binary, SEX(male/female) refers to your biological disposition this is why it's offensive to say all members of a gender have a specific biological makeup(to say so is effectively saying "all humans are white," the same argument american slavers used)[/QUOTE] except when we're talking about sex, not gender. right now we're talking about sex, or the biological makeup of an individual's reproductive anatomy. when we talk about people having vaginas, this almost always means that their sex is female unless somebody has some rare genetic or organ disorder that i dont know about. when talking in the realm of biology and sex it is absolutely 100% accurate to say that females have female reproductive organs, in the same way that the sky is blue and the sun shines. anybody who gets offended by that is out of touch with reality. we should not ignore the science under any circumstances, to lie to ourselves about the science would harm us more than it helps. when talking about sociology and gender, however, it is completely untrue to say that all females have vaginas. this is where the friction is occurring; people are unable to distinguish between sex and gender. the people who are getting offended automatically assume the discussion is about gender, not sex; some other people don't even realize that there is a difference at all.
[QUOTE=Levithan;41115999] I apologize for ranting on like this, I think it's all starting to grind on me.[/QUOTE] See, stuff like this grinds my gears. I say my opinion, withouth any hostility, and withouth being offensive, or meaning to be offensive. Just by saying this, I got called dehumanized, thanks for that.
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41116277]no. please grasp gender dysphoria before you say anything else emotionally insensitive, because you are supporting the stupid social culture that is imposed onto people who identify as trans. brushing it off with just "oh lol just call them by their biological gender" is also why people who have a different gender identity might be suicidal[/QUOTE] This. People don't realize it but misgendering really, really hurts. On accident it's bothersome but when it's intentional its just painful.
Things like this is why I only refer to people by the pronouns "you" and "they", or their name if I know it.
[QUOTE=Levithan;41115999]Great, dehumanized right off the bat, now I KNOW this is gonna be good. [/QUOTE] Serious question, what's the negative connotation with "Transgender"? It would be most appreciated if someone could clear that up for me, some people find it offensive and some don't.
[QUOTE=ZuXer;41116320]See, stuff like this grinds my gears. I say my opinion, withouth any hostility, and withouth being offensive, or meaning to be offensive. Just by saying this, I got called dehumanized, thanks for that.[/QUOTE] your opinion is ignorant and hurtful. many people have already pointed that out to you. drop the persecution complex
[QUOTE=T-Sonar.0;41116328]This. People don't realize it but misgendering really, really hurts. On accident it's bothersome but when it's intentional its just painful.[/QUOTE]With people who don't know me or are simply unaware, it doesn't bother me so much because I know they aren't aware. But with people who should know better, I definitely have trouble with it.
You know what, I think I agree with this man. Women have Vaginas, and men have penises. Pick a team.
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;41116339]Serious question, what's the negative connotation with "Transgender"? It would be most appreciated if someone could clear that up for me.[/QUOTE] calling someone a "transgender" or referring to trans people as "transgenders" is insensitive
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116186]I'm a transphobic minded guy, I think we should call people by their biological sex, I don't care about gender roles, people can be whoever they want, but I don't think an arbitrary social change means anything that'll change someone's sex. [editline]20th June 2013[/editline] Of course, I feel for them, I don't understand of course, but I feel for them in the same way I feel for people with a mental illness, I know it's not their fault, but that is also who they are and what they have to deal with.[/QUOTE] Fixed that for you.
[QUOTE=Take_Opal;41116249]Would you ignore someone's sexual orientation? They're still human and are meant to be sexual in one way, but they're choosing to be sexual in another.[/QUOTE] Well that's not the same, whatever determines sexuality, be in chemicals, a mindset, or whatever it is (it isn't a choice ever), isn't the same as the DNA that represents you as an organism. Your instructions dictate you to be a male or female, and that is what you are.
[QUOTE=Dori;41116366]calling someone a "transgender" or referring to trans people as "transgenders" is insensitive[/QUOTE] Then what's the "proper" term?
[QUOTE=codemaster85;41116368]Fixed that for you.[/QUOTE] Thx, my opinion means I'm transphobic, can't you guys go an argument without attempting to discredit or name call someone?
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;41116381]Then what's the "proper" term?[/QUOTE] "transpeople," or in most other contexts, "people"
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116186]I'm a science minded guy, I think we should call people by their biological sex, I don't care about gender roles, people can be whoever they want, but I don't think an arbitrary social change means anything that'll change someone's sex. [editline]20th June 2013[/editline] Of course, I feel for them, I don't understand of course, but I feel for them in the same way I feel for people with a mental illness, I know it's not their fault, but that is also who they are and what they have to deal with.[/QUOTE] Even that sentence shows how little you know of science and how not science minded you are. Biological sex is not something that is either/or. You CAN go and classify people according to their genetic sex (which I assume is what you are trying to talk about) but that brings out a whole lot of trouble when you run into someone who is genetically male (46, XY) but is female in all but a few (relatively minor) issues (smaller/shorter vagina and infertility being two). Just because you have a Y chromosome does not mean that pathway is going to be fully activated or to what extent it is going to be activated.
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;41116381]Then what's the "proper" term?[/QUOTE] a 'proper' term is being respectful and not being dry and grey around people
[QUOTE=Ownederd;41116277]no. please grasp gender dysphoria before you say anything else emotionally insensitive, because you are supporting the stupid social culture that is imposed onto people who identify as trans. brushing it off with just "oh lol just call them by their biological gender" is also why people who have a different gender identity might be suicidal[/QUOTE] Oh I'm supporting the social culture? How am I doing that when your entire ideal here is grounded in sociology or human philosophy? How the fuck is my upholdings of our understanding of human biology supporting a social culture?
[QUOTE=Lambadvanced;41116385]Thx, my opinion means I'm transphobic, can't you guys go an argument without attempting to discredit or name call someone?[/QUOTE] your opinion is transphobic. whether or not you mean offense is besides the point
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;41116381]Then what's the "proper" term?[/QUOTE] you can call me superman please
[QUOTE=Aphtonites;41116381]Then what's the "proper" term?[/QUOTE] that is the term, but you're referring them to solely being 'transgender' as if that was their only identifier
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;41116402]you can call me superman please[/QUOTE] thanks for the white noise
[QUOTE=Fetret;41116396]Even that sentence shows how little you know of science and how not science minded you are. Biological sex is not something that is either/or. You CAN go and classify people according to their genetic sex (which I assume is what you are trying to talk about) but that brings out a whole lot of trouble when you run into someone who is genetically male (46, XY) but is female in all but a few (relatively minor) issues (smaller/shorter vagina and infertility being two). Just because you have a Y chromosome does not mean that pathway is going to be fully activated or to what extent it is going to be activated.[/QUOTE] But chromosomes are all that we should consider, I wish we could just go "male with female parts", male based on chromosomes, and female parts are what he has or whatever. But why not eh?
[QUOTE=Dori;41116366]calling someone a "transgender" or referring to trans people as "transgenders" is insensitive[/QUOTE] What about referring to jewish people as "jews" or african american people as "african americans" or even homosexual people as "homosexuals", ect.? while not necessarily polite, it's not really dehumanising to not include "person/people". at least imo. But if they want to be called transgender people that's what i'll do (and do anyway)
[QUOTE=Dori;41116349]your opinion is ignorant and hurtful. many people have already pointed that out to you. drop the persecution complex[/QUOTE] Oh so my rights end where your feelings begin? I'm honestly open to discussion but whenever a topic like this comes up, and someone questions it, instead of talking you label them as ignorant dicks. People like you do more harm than good for this cause. I agree that you could have a man's body but identify yourself as a woman. Go ahead whatever makes you feel good. But when people come out of the depths of Tumblr and go tell everyone how they are close minded idiots. You blow this stuff way out of the water, and make up words to make you feel like special snowflakes, you make things overly complicated. You are no different than people who go out to protest with GOD HATES FAGS signs, you're just on the other team.
[QUOTE=Dori;41116409]thanks for the white noise[/QUOTE] your complaining about it only served to add more uselessness way to become what you hate
[QUOTE=U.S.S.R;41116338]Things like this is why I only refer to people by the pronouns "you" and "they", or their name if I know it.[/QUOTE] refusing to acknowledge someone's gender when you actually -know- it can be just as nasty as denying it
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