[QUOTE=Zeke129;21690170]Haha you're twelve.
You have no clue about how functional societies work.[/QUOTE]
Treating prisoners nicely isn't going to teach them shit. Not all criminals have mental problems that can be sorted. Believe it or not, some of them KNOW what they're doing.
Reading this just made me feel warm.
It doesn't really matter how much money is wasted in this prison, if even ONE prisoner comes out and re-integrates into society, it has done it's job.
It just seems that the reason many prisons are "brick walls" not because they are supposed to punish people, but because the government simply doesn't want to waste money on anyone in there so they simply build your usual prison, and leave everyone in there stuck in limbo. Prisons like this one should be all around the world, i mean, as the article stated, there is a MUCH higher chance of reintegration into society, which is what prisons should aim to do in the first place.
The world is still awesome
[quote]Treating prisoners nicely isn't going to teach them shit. Not all criminals have mental problems that can be sorted. Believe it or not, some of them KNOW what they're doing. [/quote]
No, you have no idea how the human psyche or anything related works, talk when you get a clue.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;21690219]Treating prisoners nicely isn't going to teach them shit. Not all criminals have mental problems that can be sorted. Believe it or not, some of them KNOW what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
Good god, you don't get it, do you? So what's going to help if treating them like humans don't? Treating them like animals? Locking them up in a tiny concrete box?
There are two kinds of prisons in my eyes; those who are there just to scare off criminals from actually doing the crime (and in the process hardens and perhaps even creates more of them), and those who help criminals to become better people, teaching them how to make a good living or putting them in therapy. I'm not a law student or anything like that, but even I know right from wrong in this case.
Also, only a small fraction of criminals have a mental problem. Most of them have problems with money or drugs.
[QUOTE=Mikkelmann;21690376]Good god, you don't get it, do you? So what's going to help if treating them like humans don't? Treating them like animals? Locking them up in a tiny concrete box?
There are two kinds of prisons in my eyes; those who are there just to scare off criminals from actually doing the crime (and in the process hardens and perhaps even creates more of them), and those who help criminals to become better people, teaching them how to make a good living or putting them in therapy. I'm not a law student or anything like that, but even I know right from wrong in this case.
Also, only a small fraction of criminals have a mental problem. Most of them have problems with money or drugs.[/QUOTE]
So then they know that if they commit a crime, they can go to a nice cosy prison, where they'll be treated nicely and given nice food every day with a nice comfy bed to sleep on.
Now I'm not saying you should beat prisoners to death every day just to punish them or anything, but giving them a place thats probably better than their own home is only going to encourage them.
[QUOTE=Ldesu;21690214]Norway isn't really that small
[IMG]http://www.mynetbizz.com/budget-hotels/norway/norway-map.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Well the population is pretty small there.
[QUOTE=carcarcargo;21690493]So then they know that if they commit a crime, they can go to a nice cosy prison, where they'll be treated nicely and given nice food every day with a nice comfy bed to sleep on.
Now I'm not saying you should beat prisoners to death every day just to punish them or anything, but giving them a place thats probably better than their own home is only going to encourage them.[/QUOTE]
It's still a prison. The prisoners will have the burden of shame and they will also be conditioned in the prison to know right from wrong.
Besides, they won't be meeting their friends or their family as often, and they can't go where they want. A long time period in jail will be percieved as enough punishment no matter what.
[QUOTE=Mikkelmann;21690557]It's still a prison. The prisoners will have the burden of shame and they will also be conditioned in the prison to know right from wrong.
Besides, they won't be meeting their friends or their family as often, and they can't go where they want. A long time period in jail will be percieved as enough punishment no matter what.[/QUOTE]
If the prisoner is just some gangster kid with an attitude or some poor guy with no home, this might kind of treatment may work.
However, if the criminal knew exactly what he was doing and know that it was wrong, this won't have any effect on him what so ever.
That's quite the turnaround. It is also weird. I have never heard of such a prison.
[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;21685064]Obviously, it isn't, since their re-offense rates are significantly lower than the US.[/QUOTE]
Yea considering how much lower the population in Norway is compared to the U.S.
[QUOTE=OvB;21685088]Prisons are suppose to be punishment for committing a crime. That's why they are cold, smelly and uninviting. You don't want to be there, therefore there's less incentive for committing a crime. This would never work in the States. So much blood would be spilt in the living room. You would have daily gang related shankings. And the houses for family stays could pose as a hostage threat as violent inmates tie up their family to negotiate release. OR even get drugs and weapons from them while meeting for extended periods of time.
Maybe after years of working it in there, but just throwing the current inmates in a prison like this would likely have negative side effects.[/QUOTE]
Norway doesn't have these problems, and I'm certain there would be guards with the inmate and his family. The goal is rehabilitation, not to let the inmate sit in a sweat soaked bed with a distinct urine odor, and let them think about how to get revenge.
And the real crazy people aren't sent to Halden, come on.
I don't know if this is the same prison, but Moore did a little documentary on another prison in Norway.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4beUC3-ckw[/media]
[QUOTE=Zeke129;21685925]There's Norway these prisons would ever work in the United States.
I'm using that one in each and every norway thread[/QUOTE]
Ah, but what if you're too Oslo and I beat you to it?
Why it won't work in big countries is because there's too much crime already.
First, reduce crime rates in country, then rehab the rest of the criminals, otherwise they will most likely get ruined when they get out anyway.
[QUOTE=StormHammer;21690978]Yea considering how much lower the population in Norway is compared to the U.S.[/QUOTE]
Wha...
Do you have any idea how percentages work? Population has nothing to do with this, the RATIO of criminals is much smaller.
I'm not seeing the logic of some people on these forums.
Yeah, some criminals are just misguided who need to be reintegrated into society, but there are many, [i]many[/i] others who are just all out criminals.
Please explain the logic of how a nice comfy prison is going to dissuade a gangsta who killed someone who owed him money from doing exactly the same thing again?
Some people need to have their heads screwed on properly and realise that not everything can be solved by being 'nice'.
[QUOTE=David29;21691529]I'm not seeing the logic of some people on these forums.
Yeah, some criminals are just misguided who need to be reintegrated into society, but there are many, [i]many[/i] others who are just all out criminals.
Please explain the logic of how a nice comfy prison is going to dissuade a gangsta who killed someone who owed him money from doing exactly the same thing again?
Some people need to have their heads screwed on properly and realise that not everything can be solved by being 'nice'.[/QUOTE]
Jesus, chill. No one said that EVERYBODY can be fixed, it's just that most of them can. And norway has no gangstas as far as I know.
[QUOTE=johanz;21691684]Jesus, chill. No one said that EVERYBODY can be fixed, it's just that most of them can. And norway has no gangstas as far as I know.[/QUOTE]
I am chilled. But when I read things like this:
[quote]No, you have no idea how the human psyche or anything related works, talk when you get a clue.[/quote]
I feel I have a reason to speak out.
I herd about 5-7 years ago about a prison in Sweden that was consider humane. Some guy got to play PS2 and other cool stuff.
A prison spanning over an area of 75 acres that only holds 252 inmates?
[QUOTE=johanz;21691684]Jesus, chill. No one said that EVERYBODY can be fixed, it's just that most of them can. And norway has no gangstas as far as I know.[/QUOTE]
What about these guys?
[img]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/60%27s_car_with_lots_of_raggare_on_the_roof_at_Power_Big_Meet.jpg/800px-60%27s_car_with_lots_of_raggare_on_the_roof_at_Power_Big_Meet.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;21691847]What about these guys?
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/60%27s_car_with_lots_of_raggare_on_the_roof_at_Power_Big_Meet.jpg/800px-60%27s_car_with_lots_of_raggare_on_the_roof_at_Power_Big_Meet.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
thats my family
[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;21691847]What about these guys?
[img_thumb]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/45/60%27s_car_with_lots_of_raggare_on_the_roof_at_Power_Big_Meet.jpg/800px-60%27s_car_with_lots_of_raggare_on_the_roof_at_Power_Big_Meet.jpg[/img_thumb][/QUOTE]
What about them? Sure they look like idiots, but are they criminals?
[QUOTE=johanz;21692148]What about them? Sure they look like idiots, but are they criminals?[/QUOTE]
They're gangstas.
You said Norway had no gangstas.
[QUOTE=johanz;21692148]What about them? Sure they look like idiots, but are they criminals?[/QUOTE]
They look like potential ones.
[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;21692160]They're gangstas.
You said Norway had no gangstas.[/QUOTE]
Okay, I was wrong. I don't live in norway, I don't know. Just that most countries with such low population don't have any gangstas.
[editline]03:11PM[/editline]
[QUOTE=starpluck;21692182]They look like potential ones.[/QUOTE]
Rednecks do too, what's your point?
If I didn't think i'd get stabbed in prison, i'd probably have been there already.
[QUOTE=johanz;21692196]Okay, I was wrong. I don't live in norway, I don't know. Just that most countries with such low population don't have any gangstas.
[/QUOTE]
There are some gangs of immigrants in Oslo, called "A gjengen" and "B gjengen" that kill and rob each other but I don't know of any more
These are the worst of them:
[IMG_thumb]http://gfx.dagbladet.no/pub/artikkel/5/54/549/549173/BXgjengensentrale320_1223165062_1223165083.jpg[/IMG_thumb]
they are all immigrants
[QUOTE=David29;21691529]I'm not seeing the logic of some people on these forums.
Yeah, some criminals are just misguided who need to be reintegrated into society, but there are many, [i]many[/i] others who are just all out criminals.
Please explain the logic of how a nice comfy prison is going to dissuade a gangsta who killed someone who owed him money from doing exactly the same thing again?
Some people need to have their heads screwed on properly and realise that not everything can be solved by being 'nice'.[/QUOTE]
What your explaining right now is the US/UK version of 'logic'. A logic that's got us a terrible prison system with habitual re-offenders. It's a logic that demands punishment for any and all crime, and devaluing all those who commit crime to the level of 'low-grade human beings who'd steal anything that was shiny'. This logic is why we're in this shit hole of a prison system.
Most criminals are not gang members, career criminals, hardened felons, masterminds, or insane. Most criminals are normal, rational people who come from broken homes and commit [I][U]unplanned [/U][/I]crimes. It's so illogical to assume most criminals plan or want to be criminals that Spock would smack you right in the face than offer a speech.
Most people in this society either have no reason to respect the law, no reason to respect one another, and have nobody to commit to. Giving people family and encouragement usually changes the average criminal.
[QUOTE=StormHammer;21690978]Yea considering how much lower the population in Norway is compared to the U.S.[/QUOTE]
Re-offending rates are a percentage measure i.e. it doesn't matter about the population numbers.
Guess many Norwegians would kill to get in there.
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