US open to talks on ISIS with Russia after Russian intervention

[Fulcrum]

[QUOTE=gudman;48730371]That would require way too much money in case of Syria. Plus I seriously doubt that anyone is [b]that[/b] interested.[/QUOTE]

Spend money on them, inflate it to some overwhelming debt. Demand resources, land use, labour or money for repayments of interest and BOOM you got yourself a debt peon.

[JumpinJackFlash]

[QUOTE=Radley;48730116]Well to be fair, like I said, mostly old people and paranoid nutters are afraid of a russian invasion. The average finn is generally not too bothered with our eastern neighbour because we know that chances of an invasion are so minscule that it simply isn't worth worrying about.[/QUOTE]I figured as much, but I'm not talking about Finland being invaded. I'm talking about what Finns think of when they imagine Finland as a country among all these other countries. Example: as an American I think we're definitely the strongest, we dictate a lot of foreign policy, but the world has become both reliant on us to keep doing that and also resentful toward us. I want us to stop, but I also don't want the bad stuff to happen if we stop.

[QUOTE=Radley;48730116]Also, that last sentence is just saddening. If you want you have a intelligent discussion maybe you should refrain from such borderline fedora-talk if you want to be taken seriously.[/QUOTE]Don't be an asshole if you don't want an asshole response?

[QUOTE=Radley;48730116]Oh yeah I should mention that the FDF exists to "maintain a formidable defence", but that doesn't mean that everyone sits at home shaking in their boots and waiting for the tanks to roll over the border.[/QUOTE]Well I don't think anyone expects that, when I think of Finland I think of drunk dudes sitting around a hole in the ice drinking beer and muttering swear words with a lot of vowels in them.

[QUOTE=arleitiss;48730195]I don't understand these things well but what stops US or Russian military from just going full Blitzkrieg with tanks and jets and wipe out all ISIS in one powerful sweep?[/QUOTE]As far as we've come with military technology, we're still vulnerable to the same shit that's plagued armies for centuries. A single tank company has a [i]massive[/i] support column behind it, and it gets worse as you have a bigger and bigger size of unit. There's a lot of stuff that makes a battalion go forward, and then more stuff to make a regiment do the same (and all of it's battalions, who have their own companies, who have platoons, etc) so when you start getting these big military operations they get slow, costly, difficult to even [i]move[/i] and then when they enter combat everything just sort of goes to hell and falls apart without constant care. Less advanced military forces are a bit more flexible because they don't need all of this stuff to keep running, but they pay for that by being less effective. This is a great thing when most of the terrain in question is largely empty and there's just the one road going to your objective. That road gets clogged and choked if you start putting a lot of stuff through it, precisely the stuff you need to keep a big, advanced army kicking ass and taking names.

Simply put, modern military forces need [i]a lot[/i] of stuff to keep functioning, and there's only so much road you can use to move things.

[editline]21st September 2015[/editline]

[QUOTE=mdeceiver79;48730107]I think you were justified in your post. Not to sound like a nob but it seems like he wanted an excuse to make him country seem relevant.

Not gonna lie though, I do partake in the US hegemony/realpolitik tin foil hattery.[/QUOTE]Thanks, and don't get me wrong, we all talk crazy talk but some people take it too far and it enters the realm of just stupid shit. I mean, shit, people go on about chemtrails...

[TheSyntaX]

[QUOTE=JumpinJackFlash;48733439]As far as we've come with military technology, we're still vulnerable to the same shit that's plagued armies for centuries. A single tank company has a massive support column behind it, and it gets worse as you have a bigger and bigger size of unit. There's a lot of stuff that makes a battalion go forward, and then more stuff to make a regiment do the same (and all of it's battalions, who have their own companies, who have platoons, etc) so when you start getting these big military operations they get slow, costly, difficult to even move and then when they enter combat everything just sort of goes to hell and falls apart without constant care. Less advanced military forces are a bit more flexible because they don't need all of this stuff to keep running, but they pay for that by being less effective. This is a great thing when most of the terrain in question is largely empty and there's just the one road going to your objective. That road gets clogged and choked if you start putting a lot of stuff through it, precisely the stuff you need to keep a big, advanced army kicking ass and taking names.

Simply put, modern military forces need a lot of stuff to keep functioning, and there's only so much road you can use to move things.[/QUOTE]

What about launching air strikes one after one for days?

[JumpinJackFlash]

[QUOTE=arleitiss;48733619]What about launching air strikes one after one for days?[/QUOTE]That's basically what's been happening, early on ISIS was moving around like a normal military without worrying about the sky above. They surprisingly did this for months and we bombed the [u]fuck[/u] out of them day in day out until they got smart. Now they use sort of the same methods that insurgents use by pretending to be civilian vehicles, only with much less effort. On the ground nobody cares to hide the black flags and keep their AK out of sight, but you can see some of the efforts they take in more recent pictures. Supposedly they had four Abrams tanks and these were disabled or destroyed by airstrikes, but I haven't read or heard anything about that recently so it's probably true.

What's a big issue is target identification. Unfortunately it isn't so easy to identify good things to blow up because it's really hard to even see that stuff. There's a lot going on in a small town and there are thousands of small towns in Syria, and it's thousands of times worse with cities. Countless hours are put into researching photographs and videos gathered using a variety of methods and all have their own quirks, and then comes the planning and thinking aspect. Sure you can bomb anything that seems like a great target but that just makes the enemy go to ground and there will be a lot of unacceptable collateral damage. It's better to pick and choose the big targets and hit them [i]extra[/i] hard, so that way you minimize collateral damage and you maximize the psychological impact. ISIS wouldn't exactly respond well to carpet bombing, and it wouldn't go over well with the rest of the world because you'd kill more innocent people than you would ISIS troops.

Also we've been using airstrikes to support Kurdish forces, who provide good intelligence and are extremely cooperative and reliable. (they've always been this way, the Iraqi Kurdish areas were actually safer for coalition troops than the Green Zone) Kobane couldn't have been liberated any other way, Kurdish troops would rush in after an airstrike cleared ISIS positions and destroyed the traps they set in place, and then they'd set up a defensive line for any counterattack. This also served to lure ISIS into a costly siege that they ultimately lost, using up their best and most experienced fighters as well as valuable equipment. (they're not exactly producing new tanks and artillery, so making them lose any of that counts for something)

[editline]21st September 2015[/editline]

Also I should note that ISIS only really moves a lot of vehicles immediately before an offensive, earlier in the month they moved a bunch of guys in one day on Marea, Syria. They do this a lot, they'll prepare and then at the last minute they'll give the order and you'll see pictures of a bunch of Toyotas with guns bolted to the back on their way to a fight. Really it shows they're highly organized, this sort of maneuver isn't exactly easy to pull off with anything and I can't imagine it's made easier by armed conflict. (specifically dodging those airstrikes we're talking about)