Awful.
I loved the way he articulated his opinions. He had such an elegance and pomp to his words. I've never found anything he's done to be boring - old commentaries on the 1992 election by him still fascinate me.
RIP. One of my personal heroes along side Fry, he'll be greivously missed, one of the few men that could articulate a well thought counter-argument on the spot, without having to resort to fallacies.
Apparently Hitchens had a deathbed conversion...
[url]http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/nevx8/i_heard_hitchens_had_a_death_bed_conversion/[/url]
A great man. I always loved listening to his debates and reading his books. I'll miss him.
[QUOTE=Aska49;33747097]Fuck, this sucks. The man was so mesmerizing, especially in his many debates.[/QUOTE]
Mesmerizing in the sense of putting me to sleep with boredom. I've heard him speak. The man was an idiot, there was so much wrong with what he was saying I couldn't stand to listen to him for more than ten seconds. We're just out another crusty old man who turned to self-hate because he just happened to get the short end of the stick, someone with a small, closed mind trying to reason away something he has no ability to even understand.
He thought God is not great. I think Christopher Hitchens is not great.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;33754628]Mesmerizing in the sense of putting me to sleep with boredom. I've heard him speak. The man was an idiot, there was so much wrong with what he was saying I couldn't stand to listen to him for more than ten seconds. We're just out another crusty old man who turned to self-hate because he just happened to get the short end of the stick, someone with a small, closed mind trying to reason away something he has no ability to even understand.
He thought God is not great. I think Christopher Hitchens is not great.[/QUOTE]
The man was brilliant even if he was wrong sometimes like ANY human being is.
I think your taste in people is not great; he was way more intelligent and open to information than you probably ever will be.
You're far more closed minded because you refused to listen to him more than 10 seconds you massive fucking hypocrite.
I stopped listening when I realized he wasn't the kind worth challenging. I'm open to discussion and hearing people out, but there's a point when someone is too entrenched in their opinion to make it worth challenging. Perhaps I judged him too quickly but he never came across as much more than an angsty old guy, his reasoning made so little sense I just tuned him out and wrote him off.
You see, I'm kind of jaded against this sort of person because I deal with them all the time: people who will trip over themselves and contradict every last thing they say just to prove they're right. Sorry.
Well at least you're being reasonable about it and now I CAN understand your viewpoint.
He was VERY strong in his opinion just as I am; but many times he had spoken that if he were shown proof, undeniable proof that a god had existed he wouldn't have any choice but to believe it and so on and so forth.
He WAS a somewhat angsty old guy, but I never saw him trip over himself or contradict himself because he's actually intelligent enough not to. He WAS a leading college english professor so he HAD to be aware of the possibility of making those mistakes.
[QUOTE=TH89;33749238]He was a virulent misogynist, among numerous other bigotries, and an ardent supporter of US military violence in the middle east[/QUOTE]
If thisispain didn't come in and talk shit about him for several pages about his misogynistic character, I don't think he was misogynistic.
[QUOTE=Lebowski;33754818]Well at least you're being reasonable about it and now I CAN understand your viewpoint.
He was VERY strong in his opinion just as I am; but many times he had spoken that if he were shown proof, undeniable proof that a god had existed he wouldn't have any choice but to believe it and so on and so forth.
He WAS a somewhat angsty old guy, but I never saw him trip over himself or contradict himself because he's actually intelligent enough not to. He WAS a leading college english professor so he HAD to be aware of the possibility of making those mistakes.[/QUOTE]
Kind of taking what I said out of context though, the point about people being entrenched has to do with people who will not let go of something even if they have no way to argue their point. They don't have to contradict themselves to stay entrenched.
The problem I have with folks like him reasoning that God does not exist because of X is still based in human reasoning, which is downright two dimensional if you take into consideration that you're talking about a type of being that would have to exist well beyond our understanding. We choose a basis for our reasoning somewhere, but in the end it is nearly always arbitrary. For instance, I can say "this sticky note is blue. The sky appears to be the same color. Thus, both the sticky note and the sky are blue." I may be color blind and not realize that the sky and the blue object are different colors that my brain is registering as being the same. There is no way to know the difference unless a doctor were to diagnose me, and even then, his research may have been based on a misconception, subjective, ect. He could misdiagnose me. Perhaps everyone else has the condition and I'm normal. He could've just overlooked that viewpoint, but it rings of a sort of arrogance that I've met all too often from others and it's hard for me to take him as not being the same way.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;33754788]I stopped listening when I realized he wasn't the kind worth challenging. I'm open to discussion and hearing people out, but there's a point when someone is too entrenched in their opinion to make it worth challenging. Perhaps I judged him too quickly but he never came across as much more than an angsty old guy, his reasoning made so little sense I just tuned him out and wrote him off.
You see, I'm kind of jaded against this sort of person because I deal with them all the time: people who will trip over themselves and contradict every last thing they say just to prove they're right. Sorry.[/QUOTE]
Can you give some examples of how he was an idiot or "tripped over himself", or contracted every last thing he said?
Angsty old guy? Yeah, an angsty old guy who wrote several prize winning books and was voted [url="http://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/2008/07/100-top-public-intellectuals/"]one of the top 5 public intellectuals[/url] who also received several other awards and recognitions throughout his career.
[quote]I couldn't stand to listen to him for more than ten seconds[/quote]
If that's the extent of your knowledge of the man's work, then that doesn't lend very much credibility to your opinion.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;33754788]I stopped listening when I realized he wasn't the kind worth challenging.[/quote]
The idea that some random poster on an internet message board feels that they are just "above" challenging the work of a highly established author and journalist they disagree with is comical, to say the least.
[QUOTE=Jenkem;33755022]
The problem I have with folks like him reasoning that God does not exist because of X is still based in human reasoning, which is downright two dimensional if you take into consideration that you're talking about a type of being that would have to exist well beyond our understanding.[/QUOTE]
What you have just done is use reason to say that reason is unreliable. By doing this you are basically cutting off the branch you are sitting on. This is also just an "escape hatch" argument to get out of trying to prove that your god exists. By saying god exists outside of our understanding, you are throwing out centuries of apologetic arguments by philosophers like Thomas Aquinas, who used logic to try to prove god's existence, just to use a quick cop-out from proving the existence of god. The "God exists outside our logic" canard is also an incoherent argument because logic isn't a domain of reality like geology or physics is.
[quote]We choose a basis for our reasoning somewhere, but in the end it is nearly always arbitrary. For instance, I can say "this sticky note is blue. The sky appears to be the same color. Thus, both the sticky note and the sky are blue." I may be color blind and not realize that the sky and the blue object are different colors that my brain is registering as being the same. There is no way to know the difference unless a doctor were to diagnose me, and even then, his research may have been based on a misconception, subjective, ect. He could misdiagnose me. Perhaps everyone else has the condition and I'm normal. He could've just overlooked that viewpoint, but it rings of a sort of arrogance that I've met all too often from others and it's hard for me to take him as not being the same way.[/QUOTE]
And that's why we have something called the scientific method to gain knowledge about the world, rather than using only our human intuitions.
[QUOTE=TH89;33749238]He was a virulent misogynist[/QUOTE]
he was just being a dick to generate controversy.
[QUOTE=TH89;33749238]an ardent supporter of US military violence in the middle east[/QUOTE]
that's true though.
I do hope his death makes his moronic brother see things differently :P
[QUOTE=The Baconator;33755005]If thisispain didn't come in and talk shit about him for several pages about his misogynistic character, I don't think he was misogynistic.[/QUOTE]
this is true.
if he was a misogynist then he wasn't particularly committed to it.
[QUOTE=thisispain;33755596]this is true.
if he was a misogynist then he wasn't particularly committed to it.[/QUOTE]
I think being aware of how something is bad and the ramifications of it, and yet still doing it to 'troll' or be a 'dick' or whatever is far, far worse than simply being an uneducated idiot.
[QUOTE=Contag;33755685]I think being aware of how something is bad and the ramifications of it, and yet still doing it to 'troll' or be a 'dick' or whatever is far, far worse than simply being an uneducated idiot.[/QUOTE]
well at least it boosted the careers of all the female comedians who spoke out against him.
[QUOTE=thisispain;33755710]well at least it boosted the careers of all the female comedians who spoke out against him.[/QUOTE]
I'm just going to tell myself you're in mourning, or something.
[QUOTE=Contag;33755745]I'm just going to tell myself you're in mourning, or something.[/QUOTE]
i'm engaging in vile apologetics.
i actually think Richard Dawkins is a way better atheist figure-head
This has me [i]all choked up[/i]
[QUOTE=Contag;33749532]
Although he did things that I disagree with, he presented a far greater amount of intellectual rigor than most public figures, and that's to be admired. He was happy with his life, and at the end of the day, that's really all that counts on an individual level.[/QUOTE]
Disagree. He was a shitbag who hid his various hateful beliefs under the guise of being intellectually superior. I agreed with some of his work - mostly in regards to atheism - but I'm not willing to say he was a 'genius' and excuse all of that just because our beliefs happened to coincide occasionally.
Also, his death would be far more tragic if he hadn't essentially caused it himself by drinking a shitload of alcohol and smoking a veritable tonne of cigarettes each day. And he admitted, right to the end, that he didn't regret it, so I see no sense in feeling sorry.
[editline]17th December 2011[/editline]
Having said all that, still slightly sad that he's passed. And the way he faced death was certainly admirable.
[editline]17th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=Lebowski;33754818]
He WAS a somewhat angsty old guy, but I never saw him trip over himself or contradict himself[/QUOTE]
You never saw him contradict himself? He's arguably most famous (pre-focus on atheism) for his significant change in political beliefs.
Which obviously differs from contradicting oneself mid-argument, but the point remains.
He will be sorely missed.
[QUOTE=The Baconator;33747415]Reading his wikipedia article, this sounds like a fascinating guy, why is he not ever talked about? Is it because he actually was an individual in his beliefs and not some left or right, black and white person?[/QUOTE]
Honestly, this is probably you. Hitchens is a very well known individual - both in academia, and otherwise. He's been famous for decades. He's had several bestselling books, particularly the recent [i]God Is Not Great[/i]. He's very well known in regards to his views concerning religion and the existence of god, which I believe is the primary way through which younger people have become familiar with him. Right up to his death, he was publishing articles and reviews in [i]Vanity Fair[/i], and participating in debates, so he was still very much active.
He is definitely 'talked about'. Hell, I even studied him in high school (although I went to an alternative school, so I'd hardly expect this to be the norm, and I was well aware of him years before that). If you've never heard of him, that's something on your end, and likely has something to do with the type of books you read, the media you consume, and so on.
[QUOTE=devotchkade;33756323]
You never saw him contradict himself? He's arguably most famous (pre-focus on atheism) for his significant change in political beliefs.
Which obviously differs from contradicting oneself mid-argument, but the point remains.[/QUOTE]
Oh I know he completely changed around just as I have in the past; I'm only talking about mid-conversation. There's nothing wrong with having a change in your views at some point in your life but I get what you mean. It's a contradiction but it's not exactly a fault.
[editline]16th December 2011[/editline]
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;33755916]This has me [i]all choked up[/i][/QUOTE]
WOW Asshole. Go make cancer jokes somewhere else you giant fucking wank.
[QUOTE=Lebowski;33756935]
WOW Asshole. Go make cancer jokes somewhere else you giant fucking wank.[/QUOTE]
Sorry it's just too much to swallow right now :v:
[QUOTE=JohnFisher89;33757083]Sorry it's just too much to swallow right now :v:[/QUOTE]
ow ok that was a good one :(
lol i can hear him screaming in the depths of hell ahahhahahahhaahahasshole.
[highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling." - Seiteki))[/highlight]
[QUOTE=devotchkade;33756323]Disagree. He was a shitbag who hid his various hateful beliefs under the guise of being intellectually superior.[/QUOTE]
What are these hateful beliefs of his?
[QUOTE=Vasili;33758693]What are these hateful beliefs of his?[/QUOTE]
Not believing in a god! What a vile shit stain! He should get cancer and die!
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