Christopher Hitchens dies at 62 - Polidicks

[QUOTE=truebluesniper;33757455]lol i can hear him screaming in the depths of hell ahahhahahahhaahahasshole. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling." - Seiteki))[/highlight][/QUOTE] lol i can hear you screaming from the refugee camp ahahahahaasshole

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;33759236]Not believing in a god! What a vile shit stain! He should get cancer and die![/QUOTE] That wasn't what Devotchkade was referring to at all.

It's terrible that he died, but I respect the manner in which he died. He accepted the fact he had cancer, probably downed some whisky and continued doing what he loved doing. I respect him for that.

[QUOTE=thisispain;33755761]i'm engaging in vile apologetics. i actually think Richard Dawkins is a way better atheist figure-head[/QUOTE] imo dawkins is a twerp, and a poor representative of atheism. i've always thought hitchens was better because he was more inclined to intellectual honesty, rather than preserving his public standing (proven through his ultimate shift in many of his ideals), which makes me more likely to take him seriously. not that i agree with either of them on religion, but i still have a higher view of hitchens than dawkins.

When I heard about it last night, I bought a copy of The God Delusion. Obviously not written by Hitchens, but I've been interested in the "New Atheism" movement for a while but hadn't read any of the books, and I figured the God Delusion was a good starting point. Might pick up God is not Great if I enjoy it.

[QUOTE=chunkymonkey;33759236]Not believing in a god! What a vile shit stain! He should get cancer and die![/QUOTE] As I explicitly said, mate, I [i]agree[/i] with his views on religion and the existence of god. [QUOTE=devotchkade;33756323]Disagree. He was a shitbag who hid his various hateful beliefs under the guise of being intellectually superior. [b]I agreed with some of his work - mostly in regards to atheism[/b] - but I'm not willing to say he was a 'genius' and excuse all of that just because our beliefs happened to coincide occasionally. [/QUOTE] Can you not read, or something? Also, I would never, ever wish cancer on someone, so fuck you. [editline]17th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=Vasili;33758693]What are these hateful beliefs of his?[/QUOTE] Basically everything he wrote in regards to war, torture, and how he agreed with the hawkish neocon Bush administration policies, for starters.

[QUOTE=devotchkade;33763408]As I explicitly said, mate, I [i]agree[/i] with his views on religion and the existence of god. Can you not read, or something? Also, I would never, ever wish cancer on someone, so fuck you. [editline]17th December 2011[/editline] Basically everything he wrote in regards to war, torture, and how he agreed with the hawkish neocon Bush administration policies, for starters.[/QUOTE] He became disillusioned from the established left after his friend and fellow writer Salman Rushdie got a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatw%C4%81]fatwa[/url] put on him by the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini for writing a book :essentially, his leftist allies at the time wanted Rushdie to back down/reacted kind of lamely to it, which pissed him right the fuck off, and I can totally see why. Liberalism is the right idea for humanity, but so often its proponents are just pussies who are afraid to step on anyone's toes and speak up for their rights. He never did think torture was "okay" - he did think waterboarding wasn't torture at one point, but agreed to try it and then revised his opinion and did a piece on it, which I think can only have been a good thing. He was indeed a fan of military interventionism, something that I guess I'm generally pretty opposed to, but I have to remember that I supported the intervention in Libya as did many, many other people (on facepunch and elsewhere). I don't know why I'm still being all apologist, but that's my view on it. He was an angry dude who insulted a tonne of people, but that's not at all a bad thing, especially when the issues he spoke about were socially repressed as fuck. I'd also like to post this picture [img]http://i.imgur.com/8hS8V.png[/img]

honestly that's so fucking insulting If you are saying his rationale for interventionism was to remove dictators like Saddam Hussein (despite the US supporting Iraq in the 80s, and the [I]dozens[/I] of other shitbags the US props up), you are saying he is an absolute idiot and if the response to a fatwa lead him to completely backflip on his views, then they were on pretty shaky ground to start with [editline]17th December 2011[/editline] for a former marxist, he sure was blind about power structures

[QUOTE=Turnips5;33764179]He became disillusioned from the established left after his friend and fellow writer Salman Rushdie got a [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatw%C4%81]fatwa[/url] put on him by the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini for writing a book :essentially, his leftist allies at the time wanted Rushdie to back down/reacted kind of lamely to it, which pissed him right the fuck off, and I can totally see why. Liberalism is the right idea for humanity, but so often its proponents are just pussies who are afraid to step on anyone's toes and speak up for their rights.[/quote] Thanks, but I'm aware of all this. I don't think the fact that many prominent liberals (like the US Democrats) aren't willing to step up changes the validity of the intellectual arguments they espouse, and it's not a good enough reason to backflip, especially for someone who proclaimed to be so focused on intellectual rigor above all. [QUOTE=Turnips5;33764179]He never did think torture was "okay" - he did think waterboarding wasn't torture at one point, but agreed to try it and then revised his opinion and did a piece on it, which I think can only have been a good thing.[/quote] I wrote this before, but it didn't go through: Although I thought his retraction of his views on waterboarding was admirable - but I thought the fact that he had to undergo the process before he rescinded his previous statements of it was a bit ridiculous. It's fairly well established that waterboarding is a form of torture, and that it emulates the experience of being drowned slowly, so I don't know why you'd have to actually experience that to be against it. Not to mention in that video he stayed under for like 4 seconds before he Also, he still defended waterboarding after he was subjected to it - he just admitted it was torture, that's all. So, then, he [i]was[/i] in favour of (some forms of) torture. [QUOTE=Turnips5;33764179]He was indeed a fan of military interventionism, something that I guess I'm generally pretty opposed to, but I have to remember that I supported the intervention in Libya as did many, many other people (on facepunch and elsewhere). He wanted the entire world to be free, and if it involved forcibly removing horrible fucking people like Saddam Hussein from power, then so be it. I can respect that.[/quote] Yeah, that isn't at all what the invasion into Iraq was about. [QUOTE=Turnips5;33764179]I don't know why I'm still being all apologist, but that's my view on it. He was an angry dude who insulted a tonne of people, but that's not at all a bad thing, especially when the issues he spoke about were socially repressed as fuck.[/QUOTE] I don't think it's a bad thing. I certainly hold a lot of unpopular views (some of which he and I shared), and that's not why I call him hateful.

[QUOTE=Contag;33764241]honestly that's so fucking insulting If you are saying his rationale for interventionism was to remove dictators like Saddam Hussein (despite the US supporting Iraq in the 80s, and the [I]dozens[/I] of other shitbags the US props up), you are saying he is an absolute idiot and if the response to a fatwa lead him to completely backflip on his views, then they were on pretty shaky ground to start with [editline]17th December 2011[/editline] for a former marxist, he sure was blind about power structures[/QUOTE] [url]http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2011/03/31/christopher-hitchens-if-saddam-still-ruled-there-would-be-no-arab-spring/[/url] I can't be fucked to argue any more on military interventionism, christ and I have no idea what you're talking about with the fatwa thing [editline]17th December 2011[/editline] [QUOTE=devotchkade;33764340]Thanks, but I'm aware of all this. I don't think the fact that many prominent liberals (like the US Democrats) aren't willing to step up changes the validity of the intellectual arguments they espouse, and it's not a good enough reason to backflip, especially for someone who proclaimed to be so focused on intellectual rigor above all. I wrote this before, but it didn't go through: Although I thought his retraction of his views on waterboarding was admirable - but I thought the fact that he had to undergo the process before he rescinded his previous statements of it was a bit ridiculous. It's fairly well established that waterboarding is a form of torture, and that it emulates the experience of being drowned slowly, so I don't know why you'd have to actually experience that to be against it. Not to mention in that video he stayed under for like 4 seconds before he Also, he still defended waterboarding after he was subjected to it - he just admitted it was torture, that's all. So, then, he [i]was[/i] in favour of (some forms of) torture. Yeah, that isn't at all what the invasion into Iraq was about. I don't think it's a bad thing. I certainly hold a lot of unpopular views (some of which he and I shared), and that's not why I call him hateful.[/QUOTE] alright, cool I'm going to stop talking about the Iraq war because I have a nasty feeling I really have no clue what I'm talking about

[QUOTE=PvtCupcakes;33761778]When I heard about it last night, I bought a copy of The God Delusion. Obviously not written by Hitchens, but I've been interested in the "New Atheism" movement for a while but hadn't read any of the books, and I figured the God Delusion was a good starting point. Might pick up God is not Great if I enjoy it.[/QUOTE] IMHO, [i]The God Delusion[/i] was a mess, so even if you don't enjoy it (but nonetheless agree with the ideas put forth by Dawkins), you should give [i]God Is Not Great[/i] a go anyhow.

that article on the arab spring says it all please stop posting articles by him (that do not concern atheism/theism) because everything I read just diminishes whatever positive feelings I had As I posted before, I don't wish to get into a protracted argument about some of the more blitheringly foolish views he had, as he is dead.

that sounds like a good idea

[QUOTE=devotchkade;33764340] Yeah, that isn't at all what the invasion into Iraq was about. [/QUOTE] According to Hitchens Saddam was allowing some of the most dangerous men at the time to seek refuge in his country. Some of which he actually interviewed. [editline]17th December 2011[/editline] also this is my absolute [B]favorite[/B] speech made by this man. I think it's a relevant time to post this considering he's now talking about himself [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_cNReWlXhw[/media]

Actually Hitchens says a lot of interesting points on Iraq and its dictatorship before invasion, got to remember that Hitchens is a pretty good historian as well as a writer. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0LmCIu0FXs&feature=fvwrel[/media]

For anyone interested, his brother Peter wrote an article about him. [url]http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2011/12/in-memoriam-christopher-hitchens-1949-2011.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Contag;33764786]that article on the arab spring says it all please stop posting articles by him (that do not concern atheism/theism) because everything I read just diminishes whatever positive feelings I had As I posted before, I don't wish to get into a protracted argument about some of the more blitheringly foolish views he had, as he is dead.[/QUOTE] then don't read them why makes us suffer ignorance for it

[QUOTE=Contag;33749432][URL]http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/features/2007/01/hitchens200701?printable=true&currentPage=all[/URL] for instance[/QUOTE] But he did also say: [QUOTE] [Mother Teresa] was not a friend of the poor. She was a friend of poverty. She said that suffering was a gift from God. She spent her life opposing the only known cure for poverty, which is the empowerment of women and the emancipation of them from a livestock version of compulsory reproduction. [/QUOTE] [URL]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-16214466[/URL]

[QUOTE=truebluesniper;33757455]lol i can hear him screaming in the depths of hell ahahhahahahhaahahasshole. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling." - Seiteki))[/highlight][/QUOTE] nigga dead doof

[QUOTE=devotchkade;33756864]Honestly, this is probably you. Hitchens is a very well known individual - both in academia, and otherwise. He's been famous for decades. He's had several bestselling books, particularly the recent [I]God Is Not Great[/I]. He's very well known in regards to his views concerning religion and the existence of god, which I believe is the primary way through which younger people have become familiar with him. Right up to his death, he was publishing articles and reviews in [I]Vanity Fair[/I], and participating in debates, so he was still very much active. He is definitely 'talked about'. Hell, I even studied him in high school (although I went to an alternative school, so I'd hardly expect this to be the norm, and I was well aware of him years before that). If you've never heard of him, that's something on your end, and likely has something to do with the type of books you read, the media you consume, and so on.[/QUOTE] I live in Canada and more specifically Quebec. Even the curriculum we follow is quite liberal in nature, and still we never heard of Hitchens. I found out about him on my own when exploring atheism and religion. Not even in Social Sciences at college (which features psychology, sociology, history, philosophy, etc) did he or anyone like him come up. It is not that unusual to think that people would be unfamiliar with him.