B.C. transgender girl, 10, makes formal request to have gender removed from her birth certificate - Polidicks

[QUOTE=WhiskeyTangoF;42671763]I have nothing against transgender people, but isn't age 10 a bit young for a kid to make that kind of decision? They haven't even hit puberty at that point.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=WhiskeyTangoF;42671779]When a child is 3 they hardly even know what "gender" is.[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=Johnny Guitar;42671791]are you drunk or are you being sarcastic?[/QUOTE] This is really getting stupid, this argument has occurred more than a few times before it is wrong at it's basis. [QUOTE=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity]Gender identity is usually formed by age three and is extremely difficult to change after that.[[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#cite_note-EBO_gender_identity-2"]2[/URL]][[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#cite_note-Kalbfleisch_and_Cody-3"]3[/URL]][[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#cite_note-Gallagher-4"]4[/URL]][[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#cite_note-5"]5[/URL]] The formation also commonly concludes between the ages of four and six.[[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_identity#cite_note-6"]6[/URL]][/QUOTE] Seriously, you are saying nothing that hasn't been argued several times before, if you want to confirm further, each of those numbers is also a source.

[QUOTE=deadoon;42671860]This is really getting stupid, this argument has occurred more than a few times before it is wrong at it's basis. Seriously, you are saying nothing that hasn't been argued several times before, if you want to confirm further, each of those numbers is also a source.[/QUOTE] OP was trolling in the first place, so I'll just keep my opinions to myself from now on

[QUOTE=elevate;42671746]If Facepunch wants to have any kind of progressive reputation on the Internet, it needs to stop being full of such bigoted fucks like you are all being right now. When it comes to gay rights, you have people bashing Christians, which by the way is also bigoted, and touting their support of gay rights and allowing them to marry and all that good stuff that we should be supporting. Yet when it comes to transgender issues, you got people left and right talking about how being transgender is disgusting and unnatural, spamming posts in support of transgenderism with dumbs and funnies. It's sickening and makes my blood boil. I'm ashamed to be on the same forum as people with such a bigoted and immature mindset.[/QUOTE] 1. To criticise a religion that has most of its members, and its holy book actively encouraging the mistreatment of homosexuals is not bigoted. Its criticism of religious homophobia. Unfortunately something quite common in this world. You can't have it both ways. 2. I've not seen anyone in this thread call transgenderism disgusting or unnatural. I have seen it in other threads though, and those people get showered with dumbs and told to fuck off. It seems like you have made a reactionary post with nothing to react to.

Nigerianprince has made three transgender related threads in the last 2-3 days simply to argue about transgender people I legitimately think he gets off to it or something. Good to see he was banned for it, though.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42671766]No children from the age of 3 are completely capable of deciding their gender and communicating this to adults; this is backed up by the world's leading scientists and smartest doctors who have researched this for many years.[/QUOTE] You know, you add a single comma after the first word, and he'd be right.

[QUOTE=PSI Guy;42671896]You know, you add a single comma after the first word, and he'd be right.[/QUOTE] I subconsciously placed a comma there, so I was confused on his viewpoint.

[quote]“There is an apparently neutral rule that everyone’s birth certificate has either an M or an F, which has a disproportionately negative effect on a group of people who are historically disadvantaged — and that’s anyone whose gender doesn’t fit neatly into an M or F and stay that way,” findlay said.[/quote] Wait a minute, what is there on the birth certificate? M/F? What does it have to do with gender, that's sex. And how does it affect transgender folks? How can you not fall into M or F? What is out there that doesn't fall into these categories. Gender I can understand, but there's just two sexes and won't be any more.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42671803]Does it sound to you like the gender of a 3 year old is something to laugh about? I hope you know that 100% of these kids that don't get surgery will commit suicide. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling, ban history, for some reason made three transgender threads in the past 2 days" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE] what i find funny about this, more than anything, is that he's trying be sarcastic and act like what he's saying isn't true when its backed up by actual science from multiple sources. also i love how his only example doesn't relate at all. its literally the example that taught us so much that we know today about gender dysphoria. [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=gudman;42671903]Wait a minute, what is there on the birth certificate? M/F? What does it have to do with gender, that's sex. And how does it affect transgender folks? How can you not fall into M or F? What is out there that doesn't fall into these categories. Gender I can understand, but there's just two sexes and won't be any more.[/QUOTE] intersex

[QUOTE=Paige;42671907] intersex[/QUOTE] It's not an actual sex, it's a situation where you can't completely identify as either sex because of biological reasons.

[QUOTE=gudman;42671918]It's not an actual sex, it's a situation where you can't completely identify as either sex because of biological reasons.[/QUOTE] fair enough [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] also the point of this is that being M or F on your birth certificate makes things a lot easier for transgender people regardless of their original sex. for example, I can't ever marry my boyfriend despite the fact i'm a girl and he's a boy. it's a straight marraige yet I couldn't do it because i'm a transgirl. having F on my birth certificate would help this a lot.

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;42671796]"Don't like us? You deserve to die!" If I had a penny for each death threat thrown around in these threads, i'd be rich. Also, I think we should ban transgender news, because not even one of these threads will not end up in a 13 page long flamewar.[/QUOTE] aren't you the closet case that bullied a lot of people including their own sister because of fear of being trans? that and the pool toy fetish

[QUOTE=codemaster85;42671834]Lol says the psychopath that personally traced a transgender girl here who was in the closet and told all of her friends, just because she was trans.[/QUOTE] Wow, seriously? That's really fucked up. [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] Also, I'm fairly certain that the birth certificates have "sex", not "gender"

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42671803]Does it sound to you like the gender of a 3 year old is something to laugh about? I hope you know that 100% of these kids that don't get surgery will commit suicide. [/QUOTE] What an asinine idea, everyone knows the number is actually more like 50%, which is an incredibly low suicide rate!

[QUOTE=Paige;42671929]fair enough [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] also the point of this is that being M or F on your birth certificate makes things a lot easier for transgender people regardless of their original sex. for example, I can't ever marry my boyfriend despite the fact i'm a girl and he's a boy. it's a straight marraige yet I couldn't do it because i'm a transgirl. having F on my birth certificate would help this a lot.[/QUOTE] Wait, a birth cerificate matters in marriage? I thought that only other IDs matter, like passport?

Also the solution to the birth certificate thing would just be to relabel the "sex" (or gender, I'm not sure what B.C. ones say) field as a "sex at birth" field for every birth certificate

[QUOTE=Zeke129;42671954]Also the solution to the birth certificate thing would just be to relabel the "sex" (or gender, I'm not sure what B.C. ones say) field as a "sex at birth" field for every birth certificate[/QUOTE] That's pretty great idea. It doesn't actually support biology (because you can't change sex no matter what), but it might solve some formal problems.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;42671949]What an asinine idea, everyone knows the number is actually more like 50%, which is an incredibly low suicide rate![/QUOTE] I think it's something like 38% (though don't quote me on that, I don't remember for certain) which is still absurdly high.

[QUOTE=gudman;42671956]That's pretty great idea. It doesn't actually support biology (because you can't change sex no matter what), but it might solve some formal problems.[/QUOTE] Why wouldn't it support biology? Stating a "sex at birth" doesn't imply that everyone is going to change it.

[QUOTE=gudman;42671952]Wait, a birth cerificate matters in marriage? I thought that only other IDs matter, like passport?[/QUOTE] it matters because my birth certificate, atleast in america, indentifies me as "male" regardless of what I do. it's also the information your ID's like drivers license and passports are based off of. and, fun fact, in america the laws surrounding your birth certificate are based around the state you were born in. I was born in the american south in a state that doesn't allow me to change gender/sex on birth certificate no matter how many surgeries or operations or hormones I take. I'm always "legally male" and it blows.

[QUOTE=Paige;42671989]it matters because my birth certificate, atleast in america, indentifies me as "male" regardless of what I do. it's also the information your ID's like drivers license and passports are based off of. and, fun fact, in america the laws surrounding your birth certificate are based around the state you were born in. I was born in the american south in a state that doesn't allow me to change gender/sex on birth certificate no matter how many surgeries or operations or hormones I take. I'm always "legally male" and it blows.[/QUOTE] This is pretty much exactly why the birth certificate should just contain a record of sex at birth for medical reasons instead of being the basis for how you're treated in the eyes of the law. Outside of medical context, like in most applications of law, there's no reason to not use gender instead.

[QUOTE=nigerianprince;42671803]Does it sound to you like the gender of a 3 year old is something to laugh about? I hope you know that 100% of these kids that don't get surgery will commit suicide. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("Trolling, ban history, for some reason made three transgender threads in the past 2 days" - Megafan))[/highlight][/QUOTE] mods, if you extend this guy's ban you're gonna get like $120 into FP's bank account purely from revenge titles, and we'll probably get an influx of new users from the 10,000 youtube videos he will subsequently make. literally no loss to putting this jokester in the bin permenantly.

[QUOTE=CheeseMan;42672002]mods, if you extend this guy's ban you're gonna get like $120 into FP's bank account purely from revenge titles, and we'll probably get an influx of new users from the 10,000 youtube videos he will subsequently make. literally no loss to putting this jokester in the bin permenantly.[/QUOTE] has he done something like this before?

[QUOTE=Fatfatfatty;42671796]"Don't like us? You deserve to die!" If I had a penny for each death threat thrown around in these threads, i'd be rich. Also, I think we should ban transgender news, because not even one of these threads will not end up in a 13 page long flamewar.[/QUOTE] Oh man, watching you post in trans threads [b]NEVER[/b] stops being funny.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;42671984]Why wouldn't it support biology? Stating a "sex at birth" doesn't imply that everyone is going to change it.[/QUOTE] Fair point. [QUOTE=Paige;42671989]it matters because my birth certificate, atleast in america, indentifies me as "male" regardless of what I do. it's also the information your ID's like drivers license and passports are based off of. and, fun fact, in america the laws surrounding your birth certificate are based around the state you were born in. I was born in the american south in a state that doesn't allow me to change gender/sex on birth certificate no matter how many surgeries or operations or hormones I take. I'm always "legally male" and it blows.[/QUOTE] Yes, but you can change IDs, passports and driver's license? Yeah, I guess it sucks that state you were born in doesn't allow you to change something irrelevant (because it is unimportant for the state, it's just a birth record) that causes a lot of formal problems. In fact, I always thought that the way countries treat some documents is unfair as hell, you can get bitten in the ass so easily by something you don't have anything to do with.

[QUOTE=elevate;42671746]If Facepunch wants to have any kind of progressive reputation on the Internet, it needs to stop being full of such bigoted fucks like you are all being right now. When it comes to gay rights, you have people bashing Christians, which by the way is also bigoted, and touting their support of gay rights and allowing them to marry and all that good stuff that we should be supporting. Yet when it comes to transgender issues, you got people left and right talking about how being transgender is disgusting and unnatural, spamming posts in support of transgenderism with dumbs and funnies. It's sickening and makes my blood boil. I'm ashamed to be on the same forum as people with such a bigoted and immature mindset.[/QUOTE] Not only is this another retarded Facepunch Hivemind post, you actually go so far as to tell people how they should think and feel. Are you the fucking thought police now? If you want minds to change, you can't just tell them they're not allowed to think that ever, you need to explain [B]why[/B] what they're thinking is wrong. You can't force people to accept things, and the harder you shove it into their faces the more they will resist. They need to accept it on their own terms. All you can do is educate. Oh and bashing Christians (or any other religion) is not bigotry when the conversation is in the context of reality, existence, the universe, etc. This is right up there with stupid "militant atheist" claims. Good god your post might just be the worst I've seen in months. [QUOTE=Zeke129;42671999]This is pretty much exactly why the birth certificate should just contain a record of sex at birth for medical reasons instead of being the basis for how you're treated in the eyes of the law. Outside of medical context, like in most applications of law, there's no reason to not use gender instead.[/QUOTE] This sounds fair to me, but then I'm not trans and I find it difficult to put myself in those shoes to imagine what it would be like on the other side.

[QUOTE=Paige;42672011]has he done something like this before?[/QUOTE] yeah, he was permabanned a long time ago and went on a literal 1-year crusade against maxofs2d. 11 Months ago nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed garry's title 12 Months ago nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed postal's title nigerianprince changed Craptasket's title he also made 3 youtube videos just about maxofs2d which he got his equally wacko friends to spam on the forum

[QUOTE=FlakAttack;42672035]Not only is this another retarded Facepunch Hivemind post, you actually go so far as to tell people how they should think and feel. Are you the fucking thought police now? If you want minds to change, you can't just tell them they're not allowed to think that ever, you need to explain [B]why[/B] what they're thinking is wrong. You can't force people to accept things, and the harder you shove it into their faces the more they will resist. They need to accept it on their own terms. All you can do is educate. Oh and bashing Christians (or any other religion) is not bigotry when the conversation is in the context of reality, existence, the universe, etc. This is right up there with stupid "militant atheist" claims. Good god your post might just be the worst I've seen in months.[/QUOTE] the issue with the way thinsg are today, you can explain everything about being trans and what it means and such, and quote/source a thousand medical journals to back up every single word you say and it still gets ignored because "ew trannies!!!" i think elevate meant well but explained it wrong. [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=CheeseMan;42672037]yeah, he was permabanned a long time ago and went on a literal 1-year crusade against maxofs2d. 11 Months ago nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed garry's title 12 Months ago nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed MaxOfS2D's title nigerianprince changed postal's title nigerianprince changed Craptasket's title he also made 3 youtube videos just about maxofs2d which he got his equally wacko friends to spam on the forum[/QUOTE] oh my god really? i need to see these.

[QUOTE=WhiskeyTangoF;42671763]I have nothing against transgender people, but isn't age 10 a bit young for a kid to make that kind of decision? They haven't even hit puberty at that point.[/QUOTE] What does puberty have to do with identifying one's gender? Pretty sure you identified yourself as a boy at age 10, am I right? Or is it an unknown part of yourself that suddenly appears when your balls drop?

[QUOTE=Paige;42672043]the issue with the way thinsg are today, you can explain everything about being trans and what it means and such, and quote/source a thousand medical journals to back up every single word you say and it still gets ignored because "ew trannies!!!" i think elevate meant well but explained it wrong. [editline]28th October 2013[/editline] oh my god really? i need to see these.[/QUOTE] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzNEowp7sqI[/media]

[QUOTE=Paige;42672043]the issue with the way thinsg are today, you can explain everything about being trans and what it means and such, and quote/source a thousand medical journals to back up every single word you say and it still gets ignored because "ew trannies!!!" i think elevate meant well but explained it wrong.[/QUOTE] Sanctity of the body is a really touchy subject for many people. The part they didn't pick up is that someone else's body shouldn't really be their business. Nonetheless, you can't really force people to accept things. The trans supporters have put a lot of effort into education on FP and it shows. But there are minds you can't change. Remember that there are people out there who think stoning women for adultery is ok. It's going to take several generations to change some of these mentalities. Social change doesn't happen overnight.