Switzerland votes to maintain conscription - Polidicks

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308186]Answer my question first. Cool what if I don't want to do any of those things?[/QUOTE] Then you don't have to as soon as your term is up.

73% is an immense majority in any kind of vote.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42308260]73% is an immense majority in any kind of vote.[/QUOTE] Six million who do vs. Two million who don't, roughly. Just because a comparatively small number disagree doesn't mean the whole thing gets scrapped.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42308260]73% is an immense majority in any kind of vote.[/QUOTE] Why do you people keep bringing this up. The fact that a majority voted for it has no bearing on whether it's morally right. [editline]25th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Psychokitten;42308252]Then you don't have to as soon as your term is up.[/QUOTE] What term?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308293]Why do you people keep bringing this up. The fact that a majority voted for it has no bearing on whether it's morally right.[/quote] If the people of Switzerland believed it to be morally wrong, they would have voted otherwise. [quote] What term?[/QUOTE] Term of service.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42308279]Six million who do vs. Two million who don't, roughly.[/QUOTE] Nonononon, voting participation was about 46.4%. [editline]25th September 2013[/editline] It's still a huge number though.

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42308317]If the people of Switzerland believed it to be morally wrong, they would have voted otherwise. Term of service.[/QUOTE] If the people of Switzerland believed slavery was morally right and voted for it would that make it okay? What if I don't want to be forced into a term of service at all. [editline]25th September 2013[/editline] And obviously a lot of people of Switzerland DO believe it's morally wrong which is why 27% voted against it?

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308333]If the people of Switzerland believed slavery was morally right and voted for it would that make it okay? What if I don't want to be forced into a term of service at all.[/QUOTE] As said, there are other services you can attend, which don't involve any kind of military training.

[QUOTE=rosthouse;42308344]As said, there are other services you can attend, which don't involve any kind of military training.[/QUOTE] As said, I don't want to be forced to attend a service. Regardless if it's military or otherwise. All I want is a valid reason that isn't "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD" and "OH BUT WE FORCE KIDS TO GO TO SCHOOL WHY ARE YOU UPSET"

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308333]If the people of Switzerland believed slavery was morally right and voted for it would that make it okay? What if I don't want to be forced into a term of service at all. [editline]25th September 2013[/editline] And obviously a lot of people of Switzerland DO believe it's morally wrong which is why 27% voted against it?[/QUOTE] Maybe people who aren't informed, people who don't want to do conscription? Opinions exist too, maybe they just don't like it because they don't want do it, for no specific reason. [QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308186]Cool what if I don't want to do any of those things? Apparently the concept that toddlers (who don't know how to think for themselves which is WHY they go to school) are different from fully grown men who can make their own decisions is foreign to you.[/QUOTE] Don't forget there are 16-17 year olds who don't want to go to school. It's not just "toddlers". Those who are in conscription also have a right to vote, if I'm not mistaken, and some might voted yes, why is it bad for you and not them?

[QUOTE=rosthouse;42308344]As said, there are other services you can attend, which don't involve any kind of military training.[/QUOTE] What's the process of doing those, exactly? Do you still need to do basic training then serve the remainder as a civilian or do you never set foot anywhere even remotely military-related?

[QUOTE=Cloak Raider;42306055]lotta people in this thread trying to reconcile their hatred of conscription because it is the government forcing you to do something, with their tolerance of systems like forced schooling, jury duty, taxation, and the countless other things that you are forced to do by the government[/QUOTE] I don't know what it is like in the UK, but my life isn't on the line when I go to school, jury duty, and being taxed.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308354]As said, I don't want to be forced to attend a service. Regardless if it's military or otherwise. All I want is a valid reason that isn't "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD" and "OH BUT WE FORCE KIDS TO GO TO SCHOOL WHY ARE YOU UPSET"[/QUOTE] I gather "It's a service for the community" won't cut it for you :v:

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308354]As said, I don't want to be forced to attend a service. Regardless if it's military or otherwise. All I want is a valid reason that isn't "IT'S FOR YOUR OWN GOOD" and "OH BUT WE FORCE KIDS TO GO TO SCHOOL WHY ARE YOU UPSET"[/QUOTE] Selfish attitude, maybe something people don't want? Why don't you want to help people, it'll only do you good, unless you have a reason that it doesn't.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308333]If the people of Switzerland believed slavery was morally right and voted for it would that make it okay? What if I don't want to be forced into a term of service at all.[/QUOTE] Conscription is not slavery. As to if you don't want to be forced? Well, I'll be honest with you here, there's no way to really sugarcoat it. You suck it up. You may protest that that's not fair, it's an infringement on your rights. Look at it this way. You live in America, where that sort of thing is a given. These people live in Switzerland. Not only is this sort of thing a very long tradition, it's also a necessity.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;42308369]I don't know what it is like in the UK, but my life isn't on the line when I go to school, jury duty, and being taxed.[/QUOTE] Your life isn't on the line if you help the old lady cross the street or the little girl's cat that needs to be taken off the tree. IT'S DEFENSIVE, NO ONES LIFE IS IN DANGER IF THERE'S NO INVASION TO SWITZERLAND.

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;42308369]I don't know what it is like in the UK, but my life isn't on the line when I go to school, jury duty, and being taxed.[/QUOTE] Again, what's with this attitude that if you go into the military, you're 100% certain to see blood, war, death and kill people?

[QUOTE=Zeke129;42308366]What's the process of doing those, exactly? Do you still need to do basic training then serve the remainder as a civilian or do you never set foot anywhere even remotely military-related?[/QUOTE] You never even wear an uniform. What you do is basically community service. Either doing reforestation, working in hospitals and retirement homes and similar things. This service takes a bit longer than military service though.

[QUOTE=rosthouse;42308402]You never even wear an uniform. What you do is basically community service. Either doing reforestation, working in hospitals and retirement homes and similar things. This service takes a bit longer than military service though.[/QUOTE] Is it something you do everyday?

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;42308374]Selfish attitude, maybe something people don't want? Why don't you want to help people, it'll only do you good, unless you have a reason that it doesn't.[/QUOTE] "I don't want to be forced to do something against my will" "WOW YOU'RE SO SELFISH" "It'll only do you good" yeah you're literally saying it's for my own good and I can't make my own decisions, thanks. Point out where I said I don't want to help people. [editline]25th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Psychokitten;42308376]Conscription is not slavery. As to if you don't want to be forced? Well, I'll be honest with you here, there's no way to really sugarcoat it. You suck it up. You may protest that that's not fair, it's an infringement on your rights. Look at it this way. You live in America, where that sort of thing is a given. These people live in Switzerland. Not only is this sort of thing a very long tradition, it's also a necessity.[/QUOTE] That wasn't my point. You insinuated if they voted for it, that makes it okay. And yeah that isn't fair, at all.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308419]"I don't want to be forced to do something against my will"[/QUOTE] And you don't. You live in America, which has an all-volunteer army and doesn't use conscription except under duress. Switzerland is not America.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308419]"I don't want to be forced to do something against my will" "WOW YOU'RE SO SELFISH" "It'll only do you good" yeah you're literally saying it's for my own good and I can't make my own decisions, thanks. Point out where I said I don't want to help people.[/QUOTE] [url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1310036&p=42308186&viewfull=1#post42308186[/url] [QUOTE]Cool what if I don't want to do any of those things?[/QUOTE] Uhm... Unless you're mentioning to something else, please do tell me.

[QUOTE=rosthouse;42308402]You never even wear an uniform. What you do is basically community service. Either doing reforestation, working in hospitals and retirement homes and similar things. This service takes a bit longer than military service though.[/QUOTE] Is it full-time? What happens to your job, and how do you support yourself during that time?

[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42308376]Conscription is not slavery. As to if you don't want to be forced? Well, I'll be honest with you here, there's no way to really sugarcoat it. You suck it up. You may protest that that's not fair, it's an infringement on your rights. Look at it this way. You live in America, where that sort of thing is a given. These people live in Switzerland. Not only is this sort of thing a very long tradition, it's also a necessity.[/QUOTE] Do what the government says, if you don't like it, suck it up. Well at least now I know where Ayn Rand was coming from, God fucking help me.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42308392]Again, what's with this attitude that if you go into the military, you're 100% certain to see blood, war, death and kill people?[/QUOTE] No. But there is a chance? Unlikely =/= Impossible.

ALSO for the love of god, it's not that you can't make your own decisions, it's teaching you do to the right decisions. See that lady trying to carry the stroller and the baby up the stairs? Why not help her?

[QUOTE=ROFLBURGER;42308457]No. But there is a chance? Unlikely =/= Impossible.[/QUOTE] There is a 0.00001% these Swiss conscripts will see war.

[QUOTE=Gwoodman;42308447][url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1310036&p=42308186&viewfull=1#post42308186[/url] Uhm... Unless you're mentioning to something else, please do tell me.[/QUOTE] Are you illiterate? I said I don't want to be forced into a civil service. How exactly does that mean "I don't want to help people"? [editline]25th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=Gwoodman;42308459]ALSO for the love of god, it's not that you can't make your own decisions, it's teaching you do to the right decisions. See that lady trying to carry the stroller and the baby up the stairs? Why not help her?[/QUOTE] I'll help her because I'm a good person. If you're forcing someone to do something good it's not genuine because they didn't have a choice in the matter.

[QUOTE=SgtCr4zyGunz;42308471]Are you illiterate? I said I don't want to be forced into a civil service. How exactly does that mean "I don't want to help people"?[/QUOTE] What the hell do you think the civil service does but help people? Civil service aids people. You don't want to be part of that. Ergo, you don't want to help people.

[QUOTE=Zeke129;42308452]Is it full-time? What happens to your job, and how do you support yourself during that time?[/QUOTE] You do get paid. I think the service is 26 days minimum, but most take between 2-3 months. After that you have to do at least 30 days every two years, until you reach a maximum of 390 days served. If you work, you can't get fired during your service and your employer gets paid for your absence.