[QUOTE=supersoldier58;42303917]What if I want to do neither and want to choose what I want to do with my life, and not have a government choose for me?[/QUOTE]
What we want and what we get are more often than not two very different things, all you can do is make the most of it. This applies to all life.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42303996]I'm guessing you're opposed to all forms of taxation as well?[/QUOTE]
How is it comparable to taxation?
One is where the state takes a small percent of your own chosen productivity.
The other is where the state decides what you do.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304042]How is it comparable to taxation?
One is where the state takes a small percent of your own chosen productivity.
The other is where the state decides what you do.[/QUOTE]
Compare it to jury duty or something then.
[QUOTE=Bentham;42304063]Compare it to jury duty or something then.[/QUOTE]
lmao
conscription is like doing jury duty?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304042]How is it comparable to taxation?
One is where the state takes a small percent of your own chosen productivity.
The other is where the state decides what you do.[/QUOTE]
It's a contribution to society for living in said society. In a country where 'the state' and 'the people' are the same, such as a republic, it's hardly a distinction between paying taxes for society and serving society.
[editline]25th September 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304072]lmao
conscription is like doing jury duty?[/QUOTE]
Great retort, I give up my stance completely, you win.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304042]How is it comparable to taxation?
One is where the state takes a small percent of your own chosen productivity.
The other is where the state decides what you do.[/QUOTE]
Both cases is the government fucking you like a bitch. A little or a lot, doesn't matter.
[QUOTE=Psychokitten;42304089]A little or a lot, doesn't matter.[/QUOTE]
yes it does
surely you agree there should be limits on what is acceptable for a government to force on its own people
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304072]lmao
conscription is like doing jury duty?[/QUOTE]
In this instance, why not? It's public service, you spend a few weeks every year working in the community, in jury duty you spend some time when summoned assisting the community in just a different way. You aren't killing anyone, you are serving the community.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42304073]It's a contribution to society for living in said society. In a country where 'the state' and 'the people' are the same, such as a republic, it's hardly a distinction between paying taxes for society and serving society.[/QUOTE]
service guarantees citizenship
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304101]yes it does
surely you agree there should be limits on what is acceptable for a government to force on its own people[/QUOTE]
Do I look like a bitch?
Hell no.
So why the government trying to fuck me like one?
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304101]yes it does
surely you agree there should be limits on what is acceptable for a government to force on its own people[/QUOTE]
In the case of the Swiss, it's not the government forcing its people to do things as if it were a slave force for them; it's the people wanting something that is a benefit to their society.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42304125]In the case of the Swiss, it's not the government forcing its people to do things as if it were a slave force for them; it's the people wanting something that is a benefit to their society.[/QUOTE]
only 73% of its people
the rest have to do it or be branded criminals
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304141]only 73% of its people
the rest have to do it or be branded criminals[/QUOTE]
You also get branded a criminal for not paying taxes, not going to jury duty, etc.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42304125]In the case of the Swiss, it's not the government forcing its people to do things as if it were a slave force for them; it's the people wanting something that is a benefit to their society.[/QUOTE]
If they want it so much why not do it themselves rather than forcing everyone including ones that do not agree with it?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42304159]You also get branded a criminal for not paying taxes, not going to jury duty, etc.[/QUOTE]
I don't see why if you're happy to pay taxes you should be happy to have conscription. Its such a huge leap.
Can you please explain to me why that if you pay taxes you should be fine with conscription.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42304159]You also get branded a criminal for not paying taxes, not going to jury duty, etc.[/QUOTE]
NoDachi already explained why taxation is a terrible comparison just 10 minutes ago, maybe you need to see a doctor if you already forgot.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304042]How is it comparable to taxation?
[b]One is where the state takes a small percent of your own chosen productivity.
The other is where the state decides what you do.[/b][/QUOTE]
As for Jury Duty, I'll explain it nice and simple for you. In my country it lasts on average for 10 working days. Conscription in Switzerland typically lasts for 6months.
How are those comparable at all?
[QUOTE=Scrappa;42304214]As for Jury Duty, I'll explain it nice and simple for you. In my country it last on average for 10 working days. Conscription in Switzerland typically lasts for 6months.
How are those comparable at all?[/QUOTE]
But with jury duty i don't have to take much time out of my own life to benefit some hazy abstractions of citizenship and service for the state
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304228]But with jury duty i don't have to take much time out of my own life to benefit some hazy abstractions of citizenship and service for the state[/QUOTE]
So you're okay with compulsory service if it's less than a certain amount of time? That seems contradictory.
[QUOTE=Bentham;42304271]So you're okay with compulsory service if it's less than a certain amount of time? That seems contradictory.[/QUOTE]
Because one serves an important part of judicial process of being judged by your peers as a way of undermining the states control over it. An important part of living in a fairer society.
Conscription is just being press-ganged into the army.
[QUOTE=Scrappa;42304214]NoDachi already explained why taxation is a terrible comparison just 10 minutes ago, maybe you need to see a doctor if you already forgot.
[/QUOTE]
If you tried reading through the thread, I did reply to that.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304228]But with jury duty i don't have to take much time out of my own life to benefit some hazy abstractions of citizenship and service for the state[/QUOTE]
I know we're not normally the best of friends but I was actually replying to Scorpious and agreeing with you, hence the 'nice and simple' explanation of why you can't compare Jury Duty and Conscription.
In a progressive, liberal society the government shouldn't be able to force someone to abandon their career/work/etc for 6months to go and do what the government says they should be doing.
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42304294]If you tried reading through the thread, I did reply to that.[/QUOTE]
You replied and completely ignored his point that Tax is the government taking a bit from what you choose to do, while Conscription is them removing your choice of what to do and making you do what they want instead.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304289]Because one serves an important part of judicial process of being judged by your peers as a way of undermining the states control over it. An important part of living in a fairer society.
Conscription is just being press-ganged into the army.[/QUOTE]
I thought Switzerland gave you the option of going into the service of the community for a few days a year instead, or is the only option joining the army?
[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42304294]If you tried reading through the thread, I did reply to that.[/QUOTE]
Taxation analogy is a logical fallacy anyway. You can't run a country without taxes, but you can surely run a country without conscription.
One is necessary, one flouts what I view as basic human rights.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304323]Taxation analogy is a logical fallacy anyway. You can't run a country without taxes, but you can surely run a country without conscription.
One is necessary, one flouts what I view as basic human rights.[/QUOTE]
To be honest, it doesn't.
[QUOTE=Swilly;42304373]To be honest, it doesn't.[/QUOTE]
what doesn't
it doesn't flout what I hold as a basic right? One in which you should never be forced to work for a state institution over the fear of imprisonment?
[QUOTE=Swilly;42304373]To be honest, it doesn't.[/QUOTE]
Article 4 of the UDHR says
"[b]No one shall be held in slavery or servitude;[/b] slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms."
The definition of servitude
"Lack of personal freedom, as to act as one chooses."
????
[QUOTE=Bentham;42304319]I thought Switzerland gave you the option of going into the service of the community for a few days a year instead, or is the only option joining the army?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, but it seems to be ignored.
News just in: Emperor Scorpious II doesn't think conscription is servitude. And infact is completely voluntary.
[QUOTE=NoDachi;42304378]what doesn't[/QUOTE]
Your argument is that forced civil service, which the military is under, is against basic human rights.
Jury Duty is a forced Civil Service. Forced Community Service hours is forced civil service. Hell, spending jail time is forced civil service as you're forcibly removed from where you live into a location where you've lost a good number of your rights.
There are plenty of schools that make community service compulsory for graduation.
We live for a long enough time that two years spent training in the expectation of Total War, is not that big of a deal.
Also Taxes are required for the government but I don't get to pick and choose where the money I pay goes. That's my fucking money, I want it to go the EPA and Education. But I don't get to decide that.
[QUOTE=Scrappa;42304410]Article 4 of the UDHR says
"[b]No one shall be held in slavery or servitude;[/b] slavery and the slave trade shall be prohibited in all their forms."
The definition of servitude
"Lack of personal freedom, as to act as one chooses."
????[/QUOTE]
So we should let kids stay at home if they dont want to go to school?
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