Seattle bus ads protesting US aid to Israel draw ire of Anti-Defamation League - Polidicks

I am not surprised to see this in my state.

[QUOTE=TH89;26907686]Here's the problem with this idea, though--look at England. You could say it's the state for people of Anglo ethnicity, and Anglos are certainly safe from persecution there. But the only people who want to describe it as a "British state" to the point where it prioritizes Anglos over other ethnicities are far-right racists like the BNP. [/quote] The question is, is there any danger for British worldwide, were they ever discriminated against, were they ever targeted with hate and bigotry, were they ever oppressed, did they ever suffer, simply from being British? I don't think any of these questions are answered with a yes, while I know for a fact that they are with Jews. Obviously there's also a question of how long has it been, etc. For us Jews, it still seems like a dangerous world, but I'm sure that with time, this fear will be gone, I will be happy to raise my children not in the way I was raised. I was taught about all the hate and oppression we have suffered, my children won't, or at least not in the heavy amount I have been taught. I haven't been brainwashed if that's what you're thinking, I can make these decisions on my own based on what seems logical to me, as I said before, I'd be quite happy if Israel would be more and more secular and less Jewish, but I don't want Israel to just be another state for everyone, there are plenty of these states in the world, I want Israel to be a state for the Jewish people, they deserve their own state, as do all other nations. [quote]I can certainly see why people saw the need for a Jewish sanctuary state in the first half of the 20th century, but what about Armenians, Tutsis, Roma, other victims of genocide and oppression? They don't get countries. The idea of a "Jewish state" is, like a "White state" or "Black state," fundamentally incompatible with democracy.[/quote] I don't see why Roma, Armenians and Tutsis (though I've never heard of them) shouldn't get their own state. If they are an ethnic minority and they want their own state, they deserve it. Although I know for a fact that the Roma people don't want their own state, so no problem here. [quote]Now, I don't really have a problem with the Law of Return, or with Israel basing its laws and customs on its cultural and religious heritage, as most countries do, but the phrase "Jewish state" is too far.No other first-world democracy has such a racially-oriented society, and it's harmful to Jewish Israelis as much as Arabs imo.[/QUOTE] How is that too much?

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;26912175] I don't see why Roma, Armenians and Tutsis (though I've never heard of them) shouldn't get their own state. If they are an ethnic minority and they want their own state, they deserve it. Although I know for a fact that the Roma people don't want their own state, so no problem here. [/QUOTE] The tutsis are an African ethnic group, they were the ones who had genocide committed against them in Rwanda, where a large amount of them, man woman and child, were hacked to death with machetes. [editline]23rd December 2010[/editline] according to Wikipedia 800,000 were slaughtered

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;26912175]The question is, is there any danger for British worldwide, were they ever discriminated against, were they ever targeted with hate and bigotry, were they ever oppressed, did they ever suffer, simply from being British?[/QUOTE] No, because they had their own nation. But now that Jews have a nation, there's no reason to govern it differently. [QUOTE=BurnEmDown;26912175]I'd be quite happy if Israel would be more and more secular and less Jewish, but I don't want Israel to just be another state for everyone, there are plenty of these states in the world, I want Israel to be a state for the Jewish people, they deserve their own state, as do all other nations.[/QUOTE] I have to point you to the England example again. If you're going to have a state that's "for" a given ethnic group, you're telling all other citizens that they don't belong there. Not [i]really[/i]. That's far-right nationalism. It doesn't protect against bigotry, it creates more of it. It's possible to have a non-discriminatory cosmopolitan state that is still based on Jewish values, like social justice, scholarship, and complaining about everything. That would be better for everybody. [editline]24th December 2010[/editline] P.S. I don't think you're brainwashed, I think you're a cool dude. Just trying to explain my point of view :)

[QUOTE=TH89;26914953]No, because they had their own nation. But now that Jews have a nation, there's no reason to govern it differently.[/quote] Well, the problem is defining what constitutes as a Jewish state. From what I remember from school and shit, there are 5 types of possible ways Israel defines itself as Jewish: 1. Simply a state with a Jewish majority, but with the Jewish majority in power, as in, it can't be an oligarchic state ruled by a small group of say, Muslims, with a majority of Jews who don't have any power at all. 2. A state which focuses on the Jewish ethnic and cultural identity but with no laws from Judaism at all. 3. A state with minor influence from the bible, several rules regarding the Jewish holidays and the Jewish ethnic and cultural identity. This is the closest description for Israel out of these 5. 4. A state with heavy influence from the bible, with laws on all public things like TV channels, stores, streets, community transport, etc. to follow the rules of the bible, however, privately you can do whatever the fuck you want, like eating pork, if you manage to get any. 5. A state dictated by the Bible, all rules are according to Judaism and there might be extra rules (like driving rules and stuff that isn't mentioned in the bible) but they can't contradict the bible at all. [quote]I have to point you to the England example again. If you're going to have a state that's "for" a given ethnic group, you're telling all other citizens that they don't belong there. Not [i]really[/i]. That's far-right nationalism. It doesn't protect against bigotry, it creates more of it.[/quote] Well, that's just not true. Israel for example is for Jews, but 20% and more of it aren't Jews, they may not enjoy as many rights as Jews enjoy, but they live quite well. Arabs in Israel for example have the best living conditions in the middle east, unless you count the ruling classes in Dubai, the UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc. [quote]It's possible to have a non-discriminatory cosmopolitan state that is still based on Jewish values, like social justice, scholarship, and complaining about everything. That would be better for everybody.[/quote] Well, that's just like, your opinion, man. [quote]P.S. I don't think you're brainwashed, I think you're a cool dude. Just trying to explain my point of view :)[/QUOTE] Yeah, I know. It's just that I wrote I was taught a lot about Jewish suffering and Oppression, and I thought maybe some random starpluck will come and say "that explains why you're so brainwashed" or some shit like that.

Oh look at what this thread has blossomed into.

[url]http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/left-wing-students-fight-university-ban-of-libelous-flyer-featuring-lieberman-1.332319[/url]

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;26858834]Jesus christ on a stick, how many times do I need to say this? Israel was NOT created because of the holocaust. Zionism has existed long before the Nazis even came to power. Another thing is that the Nazis pushed the Jews into ghettos because of their race, while Israel is merely restricting the Palestinians' right to enter its borders, and not because of their race, there are over 1 million Arabs living peacefully in Israel, no harm was done to them, because they aren't taking part in an active conflict against Israel, and when some of them do, they get punished as well. This is a matter of self defense, not "we hate them all so we'll punish them all".[/QUOTE] [url]http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/israel-occupied-territories/report-2009[/url] 2009 human rights report compiled by Amnesty International detailing human rights violations against Israeli Arabs. Such fun, totally justifiable things include: - Basic aid from respectable organizations such as the UN being denied to citizens of the Gaza Strip, further compounding issues caused by constant warfare. - Over 450 unarmed Palestinian civilians killed, including [b]70 children[/b] - Holding scores of civilians, [b]including children,[/b] in prison without charge. - General impunity for crimes committed against Palestinians. - Destruction of Palestinian homes. Yes, they did not have permits, [b]but permits were systematically denied to Palestinians.[/b] - Many prisoners were held for refusing to serve in the military due to their human rights track record. Israel is not the knight in shining armor you wish it to be, BurnEmDown. Many of their actions are disproportionate and unjustifiable. I wouldn't go as far to say that Israel is the home of one of the gravest human rights disasters in modern history. It doesn't matter what their "justifications" are - these actions cannot and should not be preformed upon any living person. This has nothing to do with Hamas or whomever - these are civilians.

You guys really need to watch the documentary Hashmatsa (Defamation) by Yoav Shamir. It basically shows the ADL for what they really are, a bunch of fucking jokers profiteering from the Jewish siege mentality.

[QUOTE=doggelito;26939587]You guys really need to watch the documentary Hashmatsa (Defamation) by Yoav Shamir. It basically shows the ADL for what they really are, a bunch of fucking jokers profiteering from the Jewish siege mentality.[/QUOTE] just so we're clear "i disagree with israel's treatment of palestine and it's citizens" = good, reasonable opinion "i disagree with israel's treatment of palestine and it's citizens because I'm a dumb racist who gets banned every other day" = bad opinion

[QUOTE=doggelito;26939587]You guys really need to watch the documentary Hashmatsa (Defamation) by Yoav Shamir. It basically shows the ADL for what they really are, a bunch of fucking jokers profiteering from the Jewish siege mentality.[/QUOTE] ADL =/= Israel.

[QUOTE=BurnEmDown;26942717]ADL =/= Israel.[/QUOTE] we're in a thread with the ADL in the thread title broham

[QUOTE=Lazor;26942919]we're in a thread with the ADL in the thread title broham[/QUOTE] Yeah but he topic changed over to Israel and not the ads and ADL.