[QUOTE=Erfly;50162532]The best way of controlling the variables would ideally have been to create their own game, and then form it around the three variables.[/QUOTE]
That's a cool idea. You could depict the same female character in different ways and remove them all together, and you can analyze how the player looks at the woman character after their playthrough. You would have a harder time saying that the player's understanding of the character changes their perception of the view of all of society, though.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50162582]I've already made my case many times on the forums before, but my personal view on sex is that it's a normal character quality that should be explored when it's fitting. A lot of times it gets used in place of interesting character design or story, and it's a cop-out. That's where my main issue is.
The thing that kind of bothers me about the subject is that it's not a one-dimensional issue. The issues of over-sexualization doesn't really start with the game itself. That doesn't make sense. I think that female depictions are the effect and not the cause. Social views and, most importantly, [B]safeness[/B] is the cause to depictions of females in video games. I mean, look at films. There isn't a lack of roles that people of different races can't take on, it's just that it's far safer to give it to a white person. Similarly, when we approach games, it's easier to make important characters male, and when female, make the characters super sexualized.
For that reason, I feel like this study is super late in all sorts of ways. It's late because these people have already grown with gender roles, but also late because the game is the very basic end of the chain. The games might reaffirm some bad views like objectification of women as trophies and sex in place of character design, but it's far more difficult to say that the games themselves cause people to value women less. The value was lesser from the start, and the games are and result of an already existent societal neglect for women. I think the quickest way backwards from the game to the most immediate influence on sexism in video games is the business aspect which restricts artistic freedom and pushes safeness, just as the business constricts artistic freedom in films. And then above that is all of society.
This also goes without saying that the study is trying to create an objective answer to what sexualization means. Alyx is probably a very negative depiction of women to a lot of people, but not for me. I've already explained my gripes with how characters like Neith are depicted in Smite, but that doesn't bother everyone.[/QUOTE]
Out of curiosity, why do you think Alyx could be considered a very negative depiction? I've always considered her to be a pretty fantastic example of how to do a female character the right way. She's just as capable as the people around her, she experiences a normal range of human emotions, and the fact that she's a woman has [I]very[/I] little sway on...anything, really.
I feel like you and I have been at odds before, but reading your opinions, I'm really not sure why. You summed up what I would have said in a more concise way than I would have said it.
[QUOTE=wauterboi;50162606]That's a cool idea. You could depict the same female character in different ways and remove them all together, and you can analyze how the player looks at the woman character after their playthrough. You would have a harder time saying that the player's understanding of the character changes their perception of the view of all of society, though.[/QUOTE]
I think art is just too complicated for these kinds of tests. You can't measure how engaged players are, or how involved they are in the story, or how "sexist" the characters are.
Like, even if you run these tests as properly as possible, there's no way to demonstrate why you got the results you did.
I mean fuck, you could say the reason they identified more with their character in GTA is because the main character of San Andreas is black and this is proof that high schoolers are racist against white people. There's literally no way to prove what the cause is behind the results, which just leaves it up to the wild speculation of the people running the experiment.
[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;50162665]Out of curiosity, why do you think Alyx could be considered a very negative depiction? I've always considered her to be a pretty fantastic example of how to do a female character the right way. She's just as capable as the people around her, she experiences a normal range of human emotions, and the fact that she's a woman has [I]very[/I] little sway on...anything, really.
I feel like you and I have been at odds before, but reading your opinions, I'm really not sure why. You summed up what I would have said in a more concise way than I would have said it.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I don't think Alyx is bad. I'm saying that there's people that I would say are a little to anal about these things, which is exactly what I'm talking about. And it's hard to distinguish where that line really starts, because like I said sex is not always bad. Everyone in life is sexual. I like Alyx because she has a clear personality and seems like an actual friend throughout the game. Just as lighting can add warmth, her character is written well enough that she's also a great companion to bump into in the game and it wouldn't be HL2 without her.
[editline]19th April 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50162693]I think art is just too complicated for these kinds of tests. You can't measure how engaged players are, or how involved they are in the story, or how "sexist" the characters are.
Like, even if you run these tests as properly as possible, there's no way to demonstrate why you got the results you did.
I mean fuck, you could say the reason they identified more with their character in GTA is because the main character of San Andreas is black and this is proof that high schoolers are racist against white people. There's literally no way to prove what the cause is behind the results, which just leaves it up to the wild speculation of the people running the experiment.[/QUOTE]
Yup. I'm just saying it's a cooler idea than [I]this[/I]. I think if someone executed the test well, they could get some interesting results that at the very least lead to more experiments. This experiment is a dead-end.
seriously, look at this shit
[quote]Our effects were especially pronounced among male participants who strongly identified with the misogynistic game characters[/quote]
How can a player controlled avatar be a misogynist? What the fuck are they talking about?
Feeling like I travelled back in time to the old Jack Thompson days
Can't wait to see what societal problem video games will be the blame for next
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50162771]seriously, look at this shit
How can a player controlled avatar be a misogynist? What the fuck are they talking about?[/QUOTE]
"Do you like cowboys?"
"Sure, they're fun."
"Please note that the participant identifies with racist Indian killers and cultural appropriation."
Oh look it's "let's keep making studies to confirm our biases".
This study is downright amazing, but for the entirely wrong reasons.
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50162771]
How can a player controlled avatar be a misogynist? What the fuck are they talking about?[/QUOTE]
Probably because its a shit article written to try and spin video games as violent creations that turn your children into wife beaters.
[QUOTE=Ekalektik_1;50162665]Out of curiosity, why do you think Alyx could be considered a very negative depiction? I've always considered her to be a pretty fantastic example of how to do a female character the right way. She's just as capable as the people around her, she experiences a normal range of human emotions, and the fact that she's a woman has [I]very[/I] little sway on...anything, really.
I feel like you and I have been at odds before, but reading your opinions, I'm really not sure why. You summed up what I would have said in a more concise way than I would have said it.[/QUOTE]
Take a complaint that can be applied to any HL2 character and pretend it applies exclusively to her because she's a woman. Instant sexism.
thread title = guaranteed replies
and i mean
[B]guaranteed replies[/B]​
[QUOTE=Hamsteronfire;50163155]thread title = guaranteed replies
and i mean
[B]guaranteed replies[/B]​[/QUOTE]
the article writers know what they're doing
a sensitive topic brings in views
I want to hear axelord's opinion on this, since from what I can tell they posted this and then bolted immediately. Which should probably tell me all I need to know, but I digress.
This whole thing is so ridiculously silly it hurts.
This study in a nutshell: "We have a predetermined conclusion now let's conduct the study in such a way that we get results which confirm our biases and help us push agendas. We'll dump and/or alter any results that don't fit our narrative."
[QUOTE=Mr. Scorpio;50162481]so they only show the participants a photo of a woman
and conclude that videogames desensitize people to violence against women specifically
l o l
am I being trolled right now?[/QUOTE]
yes.
[QUOTE=NikoChekhov;50163338]I want to hear axelord's opinion on this, since from what I can tell they posted this and then bolted immediately. Which should probably tell me all I need to know, but I digress.
This whole thing is so ridiculously silly it hurts.[/QUOTE]
Me too, but I'm pretty sure this is just a post and run.
[QUOTE=DuCT;50163758]Me too, but I'm pretty sure this is just a post and run.[/QUOTE]
like clockwork
There's not really anything to say: the sample size is absurdly small for a non medical study, apparently results were supposed to be pre-ordained despite the sample size, and nothing of substantive value was brought forward that hasn't been debunked in far far larger studies.
This ranks up there with the "ancient people were entirely nongendered in their tribal roles because we didn't find gendered role material in our one cave where we sort of dug some stuff up... Maybe. Mostly." study.
According to [url=http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/16994-Flawed-Study-Claims-a-Link-Between-Video-Games-And-Sexism]this Escapist post/article[/url], the GTA group had mostly 15 year olds, the HL group had mostly 17 year olds, and the neutral group had mostly 18 year olds.
I wonder if there's some other sort of factor involved besides game played... hmm...
Whoever was in charge of designing this study should be black listed from their field, how unfamiliar with the subject and the scientific method do you have to be to create a study in this way and believe the results are conclusive?
That title is a chum bucket in a shark tank.
So they picked games about vocal criminals driving around doing odd jobs vs two games with a silent first-person scientist protagonist and expected teenagers to relate fairly?
Fuck off with your obviously bullshit biased "research."
Can we please stop attacking videogames all the time? First it's violence now sexism? It's 2016 for fucks sake, games should not be treated like that.
I thought we were finished with this "Video games cause violence stuff" like, a decade ago. Why does this horrible, bias study even exist?
[QUOTE=Mike Tyson;50174774]I thought we were finished with this "Video games cause violence stuff" like, a decade ago. Why does this horrible, bias study even exist?[/QUOTE]
For those sweet sweet clicks.
I agree with this point to a certain extent. However, I feel that society, the way/environment they are brought up in along with social groups, and other such sources make that influence. I think it would be unfair to say that it is all down to video games. This is because though the vast majority do probably play them, however there are a few that do not. Therefore, what would explain their behaviours? People need to be more open minded and consider things from different angles before making bold claims such as this one.
This study is total shit, like really absolute garbage. I went trough it and there's so many things wrong with it that I can't even be bothered to write it all down. Their methodology is shit, their sample group is basically a joke, they got [b]no[/b] reference groups for some of their assumptions (the experimental group was desensitized to violence against women... but they didn't check if they were also desensitized for violence against men.)
I could go on but anyone with even just a fundamental understanding of statistics and/or psychology should have a couple of red flags go up when reading this study.
[QUOTE=rndgenerator;50174756]Can we please stop attacking videogames all the time? First it's violence now sexism? It's 2016 for fucks sake, games should not be treated like that.[/QUOTE]
it is easier to attack video games and get those egotistical "i'm doing something good" feelings than to actually go after the real issues, which are more subtle and difficult to tackle
"does this human identify with a virtual human in a simulated city with plausible real life situations or a 2d yellow ball eater chased by differently colored ghosts?"
it's so silly
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
