Confederate Flag Displayed, Sparks Dispute In Virginia - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42340874]and every German who has a Balkenkreuz flag is a rabid nazi.[/QUOTE] Isn't that Germany's equivalent to the big white star America uses?

The only reason a Confederate flag should be flown should be in conjunction with the Union flag and be used to remember those who died during the war. I think people getting upset about it is silly, though. It's ultimately just a piece of cloth.

[QUOTE=Skarr;42340894]The only reason a Confederate flag should be flown should be in conjunction with the Union flag and be used to remember those who died during the war..[/QUOTE] I agree with the first part but saying that no one should be upset by a flag because it is only cloth is just silly. It's like saying someone shouldn't be upset by a written death threat because ultimately it's just a piece of paper.

[QUOTE=Trunk Monkay;42340874]and every German who has a Balkenkreuz flag is a rabid nazi.[/QUOTE] I love how you completely (intentionally) missed the correct analogy of the Swastika and chose the Balkenkreuz instead.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42340888]Isn't that Germany's equivalent to the big white star America uses?[/QUOTE] yeah but it's pretty typical to it being seen as synonymous with the Nazi Swastika, [t]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ec/Wehrmacht_Commander-in-Chief_flag.svg[/t] [QUOTE=Explosions;42340946]I love how you completely (intentionally) missed the correct analogy of the Swastika and chose the Balkenkreuz instead.[/QUOTE] except a Nazi Swastika's pure meaning is racist and bigoted hatred; Where thats not fully the case with a confederate flag. Biggoted men both flew the confederate flag and the Balkenkreuz, but that doesn't mean the 2 are synonymous with racism.

[QUOTE=Explosions;42340946]I love how you completely (intentionally) missed the correct analogy of the Swastika and chose the Balkenkreuz instead.[/QUOTE] I'm not a Nazi, I just like VW's!

[QUOTE=Explosions;42340817]What's this supposed to mean? The North didn't fight the war to end slavery until the Emancipation Proclamation, but that doesn't mean that the South didn't hate the concept of black equality".[/QUOTE] lincoln was elected on a massive surge of republicans, whos goal was to get an abolishionist in office, it was fortunate that it was a bill clinton election and it was split between 3 canadates, where by he won. the war was already inevitable, the south had started succeesion preparations by the time bucannan was on his way out. so we ended up with an abolitionist in office and a war ready to ignite at any time. lincoln's election was just the spark they needed to succeed

[QUOTE=Thlis;42340937]I agree with the first part but saying that no one should be upset by a flag because it is only cloth is just silly. It's like saying someone shouldn't be upset by a written death threat because ultimately it's just a piece of paper.[/QUOTE] A flag (in most cases), unlike a fucking death threat, isn't immediately threatening to another individual, though. You may not agree with what a flag represents, but unless the individual flying the flag is using that flag to justify being a shithead, people should just get the fuck over it and not be offended.

ya the south has hated the concept that you can't squash people into submission just because you are richer than them

[QUOTE=Skarr;42340987]A flag (in most cases), unlike a fucking death threat, isn't immediately threatening to another individual, though. You may not agree with what a flag represents, but unless the individual flying the flag is using that flag to justify being a shithead, people should just get the fuck over it and not be offended.[/QUOTE] I was using an extreme example but you cannot say that there is no ideological reason for flying a flag. If I was black I would find a lot of people flying confederate flags, in a manner that is not for historical purposes, threatening because of the ideology it represents.

[QUOTE=Lachz0r;42340577]the war to TOTALLY NOT DEFEND SLAVERY IT'S ALL ABOUT STATE RIGHTS AND SOUTHERN PRIDE[/QUOTE] Uh the war was very much about states rights Them getting to keep their slaves still had a lot to do with states rights in general

I think its fair to honor all those that died during the war, Slavery was an evil to be abolished but that doesn't mean every confederate soldier was a slave whipping and raping devil. Its like the Wehrmacht and the Schutzstaffel. Not that I think people should wave the flag at all other than some remembrance to the suffering of slavery and to those that had died in the war, ON BOTH SIDES, because the southerners may have been more racist, but I don't think that can make the killing thousands of people to make right.

[IMG]http://www.ahouseofflags.com/shop/images/434-815.gif[/IMG] If it's not this, then they are phoneys.

[QUOTE=tr00per7;42341079]I think its fair to honor all those that died during the war, Slavery was an evil to be abolished but that doesn't mean every confederate soldier was a slave whipping and raping devil. Its like the Wehrmacht and the Schutzstaffel.[/QUOTE] Yeah but to use the confederate flag as a means of displaying "Southern pride" is like Germans using the Nazi banner to display German pride. You are still using a banner of complete racism to represent yourself. If you are flying them both (Union and Confederate) in a historical event then good but if you are only flying the confederate flag then you look like you wanted them to win.

[QUOTE=Thlis;42341040]I was using an extreme example but you cannot say that there is no ideological reason for flying a flag. If I was black I would find a lot of people flying confederate flags, in a manner that is not for historical purposes, threatening because of the ideology it represents.[/QUOTE] Why does it matter what flag they choose to fly, so long as they aren't doing it to intentionally harass others? It's okay to not agree with something, but if they aren't hurting anyone else, you can't exactly do anything about it. There is more than one reason one would choose to fly a Confederate flag, and it's unfair to assume that all of the people who do are racist/support slavery.

What kind of world are we living in where the Confederacy can't even fly their own flag without people getting mad.

[QUOTE=Skarr;42341111]Why does it matter what flag they choose to fly, so long as they aren't doing it to intentionally harass others? It's okay to not agree with something, but if they aren't hurting anyone else, you can't exactly do anything about it. There is more than one reason one would choose to fly a Confederate flag, and it's unfair to assume that all of the people who do are racist/support slavery.[/QUOTE] it's not like anyone is demanding they not be allowed to fly the flag. heck i'm in favour of people being allowed to fly their confederate rags, lets me know they're a moron without me having to waste time getting to know them. and yes i'll admit not everyone that flies the confederate flag is a racist/supports slavery, some of them are ignorant history revisionists like much of the people in this thread.

Fun fact: Abraham Lincoln was a racist. He saw that slavery was wrong but he also saw blacks as sub humans that were 'below' whites

[QUOTE=Skarr;42341111]Why does it matter what flag they choose to fly, so long as they aren't doing it to intentionally harass others? It's okay to not agree with something, but if they aren't hurting anyone else, you can't exactly do anything about it. There is more than one reason one would choose to fly a Confederate flag, and it's unfair to assume that all of the people who do are racist/support slavery.[/QUOTE] I don't think anyone's saying that you shouldn't be allowed to fly a flag. [editline]28th September 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=meppers;42341203]Fun fact: Abraham Lincoln was a racist. He saw that slavery was wrong but he also saw blacks as sub humans that were 'below' whites[/QUOTE] Even if this were true, it means nothing.

[QUOTE=meppers;42341203]Fun fact: Abraham Lincoln was a racist. He saw that slavery was wrong but he also saw blacks as sub humans that were 'below' whites[/QUOTE] It's funny how if one person in the Union was racist then they are all automatically at the same level as the confederates. And even then, trying to justify the confederacy with "well this guy was not as racist but still racist" is laughable.

[QUOTE=meppers;42341203]Fun fact: Abraham Lincoln was a racist. He saw that slavery was wrong but he also saw blacks as sub humans that were 'below' whites[/QUOTE] fun fact: the confederacy literally fought for the right to continue owning other human beings simply because of the colour of their skin

[QUOTE=Thlis;42341246]It's funny how if one person in the Union was racist then they are all automatically at the same level as the confederates. And even then, trying to justify the confederacy with "well this guy was not as racist but still racist" is laughable.[/QUOTE] Many arguments in this thread are virtually portraying the Union as fighting against racism.

[QUOTE=Emperor Scorpious II;42341288]Many arguments in this thread are virtually portraying the Union as fighting against racism.[/QUOTE] They kind of did. It ended slavery in the US based on skin pigment.

[QUOTE=Bazsil;42341062]Uh the war was very much about states rights Them getting to keep their slaves still had a lot to do with states rights in general[/QUOTE] Yes, it had to do with states rights. The states right to let it's white people own black people like they were chairs or buggies.

[QUOTE=Thlis;42341298]They kind of did. It ended slavery in the US based on skin pigment.[/QUOTE] That wasn't why the war started. It was just a result of it.

[QUOTE=Thlis;42341246]It's funny how if one person in the Union was racist then they are all automatically at the same level as the confederates. And even then, trying to justify the confederacy with "well this guy was not as racist but still racist" is laughable.[/QUOTE] The majority of the Union was racist too, it was a common belief during that time period that blacks were inferior socially and mentally compared to whites. Race was pretty irrelevant in the Civil War, the Union's goal was to end slavery as a whole, not just free blacks. Even after they were freed by Lincoln they didn't get civil rights like whites, you basically just got a guarantee that someone can't slap irons on you and force you into servitude. You were still considered subhuman.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42341321]That wasn't why the war started. It was just a result of it.[/QUOTE] Oh lordy. Please spell out for us why the war started, in your own words, so we can understand. If it wasn't slavery, like you said, then please explain what started the war.

[QUOTE=Explosions;42341346]Oh lordy. Please spell out for us why the war started, in your own words, so we can understand. If it wasn't slavery, like you said, then please explain what started the war.[/QUOTE] During the war there was a debate on whether or not slaves secured by the union should be returned. In many cases they were. The south was resisting the federal government increasing its power, which to an extent did include the prohibition of slavery. The proclamation was thrown in near the end to justify the war. Slavery was the base of the Southern economy so encouraging slaves to stop working would benefit the war effort.

[QUOTE=Rangergxi;42341382]During the war there was a debate on whether or not slaves secured by the union should be returned. In many cases they were. The south was resisting the federal government increasing its power, which to extent did include the prohibition of slavery. The proclamation was thrown in near the end to justify the war.[/QUOTE] Why was it, then, that every rebel state decided to specifically cite slavery as the reason for secession?

[QUOTE=Raidyr;42341313]Yes, it had to do with states rights. The states right to let it's white people own black people like they were chairs or buggies.[/QUOTE] So we are both in agreement that it was about states rights then yes?