With less than a week to go until CA primaries, Sanders and Clinton are neck and neck in the polls
76 replies, posted
Sanders is the the democratic version of tea party. It would be more realistic to help him push his momentum to reform the Democrats then actually win POTUS.
As long corporate influence is removed at least from one party, I am fine with this. I do not want or need a repeat of the 2008 recession.
[QUOTE=Rocko's;50444404]dude ok even I want bernie to win badly but he's done, it's over. no matter the outcome here in cali it's over for him. I wish it wasn't the case, but it is. there is no "math" you can make to show bernie winning this thing.[/QUOTE]
The amount of delegates available in California is larger than Clinton's lead in pledged delegates. Not saying he'll get it, but you can't say no matter the outcome when there definitely is an outcome that has him winning.
[QUOTE=BuffaloBill;50444351]I'm utterly baffled that the majority of the US seems to prefer a lying cunt like Clinton or a racist mysoginistic retard like Trump over Bernie.[/QUOTE]
So are we. Remember though that this is the same country that did nothing when the Supreme Court handed Bush the presidency the first time around and went on in 2004 to give him a second term. Americans are weird; sometimes we're sensible in our politics, sometimes we behave really fucking idiotically and have no hesitations about shooting ourselves in the foot.
Although it is also worth remembering that a huge number of people did support Sanders anyway, in spite of his past as a self-declared Democratic Socialist and the odds being stacked against him from the beginning. It's impressive he's made it as far as he has, has managed to raise so much money from just ordinary people, and the fact he did so well as a Democrat combined with the fact that Trump has taken the Republican nomination proves that people as a whole are getting tired of the old order of establishment politics that's been dominating the country for decades now and want something new. It's not working for us as it should be.
[QUOTE=cody8295;50444134][url]http://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/election-2016/primary-forecast/indiana-democratic/[/url]
Remember that time bernie was down in the polls by 7 points (but some polls reported he was down by 15%) and won by 5%?
I'm gonna stay optimistic but i'll vote for the lesser of 2 evils if clinton is a real threat[/QUOTE]
if the candidate i blindly support and remain optimistic about winning to the end loses, then i shall vote for the candidate whose views are the diametric opposite of mine and i hate
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50444549]if the candidate i blindly support and remain optimistic about winning to the end loses, then i shall vote for the candidate whose views are the diametric opposite of mine and i hate[/QUOTE]
I assume cody is the same view as mine. Both major parties were in power when the 2008 collapse happened. Both sides were on the dole of said corporations which were responsible for the collapse. Any one who votes for the establishment or established parties are people who want another 2008 collapse, for what ever reason.
So the only reason to vote for Trump is out of desperation, to avoid the establishment which caused the issues in the first place. It no different then a black person who has the choice between someone who is not corrupt but belongs to the KKK or a black candidate who known to abuse and rob the electorate. and is corrupt, but at least is not a racist.
It is not left vs right, but corporate vs not corporate. Trump just the shit sandwich of non corporate.
I doubt Sanders will win, but the best way for a desired outcome is have him reform the Democratic party.
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50444601]
So the only reason to vote for Trump is out of desperation, to avoid the establishment which caused the issues in the first place. It no different then a black person who has the choice between someone who is not corrupt but belongs to the KKK or a black candidate who known to abuse and rob the electorate. and is corrupt, but at least is not a racist.
It is not left vs right, but corporate vs not corporate. Trump just the shit sandwich of non corporate.[/QUOTE]
I see your point but thats a pretty fucking awful comparison
[QUOTE=Duck M.;50444621]I see your point but thats a pretty fucking awful comparison[/QUOTE]
I am not gifted in the "expressing myself through speech" department. I am working on it. I just pointing out thinking everyone is following the same dynamic (left versus right) is inaccurate and flat out wrong.
The reason people are flipping from Sanders to Trump is they want those of the establishment who were responsible for the 2008 collapse out of office. Any one will do, as long those fucks are shoved out. Despite how terrible they may be.
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50444601]It is not left vs right, but corporate vs not corporate. Trump just the shit sandwich of non corporate.[/QUOTE]
How in the actual fuck can you think Trump is not corporate unless you have some kind of brain damage
You think that if he gets elected he WON'T pass laws that benefit himself, his corporation, his family's corporations, his friends corporations, etc.?
what makes people think cowboy trump is going to shove them out?
he's pretty much in this for the prestige and money
[QUOTE=Helix Snake;50444670]How in the actual fuck can you think Trump is not corporate unless you have some kind of brain damage
You think that if he gets elected he WON'T pass laws that benefit himself, his corporation, his family's corporations, his friends corporations, etc.?[/QUOTE]
Read my post again. It is the same dynamic, only it not between left and right, but corporate and none corporate. I am not defending the man. I am explaining to sobo is incorrect to assume the left vs right is all there is. Surprise, there are voters there who do not subscribe to values of either side, and see things way differently then most.
To an outsider, flipping from Sanders to Trump may seem illogical, but to the inside, the flip is not illogical. It is supporting the same set of values those entrenched with the left vs mind set do not get.
Hope this explains it.
i didn't mention left v right in my post
just that i find it utterly bizarre how people can switch from bernie to trump when they are about as opposite as you can get. bernie wants to turn the usa into norway, while trump wants to bring it back to the gilded age
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50444549]if the candidate i blindly support and remain optimistic about winning to the end loses, then i shall vote for the candidate whose views are the diametric opposite of mine and i hate[/QUOTE]
Given everything we know, Hillary is still the lesser evil... Trump would be bad for everyone, globally. Hillary would just be bad for the fee fees
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50444601]I assume cody is the same view as mine. Both major parties were in power when the 2008 collapse happened. Both sides were on the dole of said corporations which were responsible for the collapse. Any one who votes for the establishment or established parties are people who want another 2008 collapse, for what ever reason. [/QUOTE]
Not even going to read the rest of your post because I don't have to: if you think Trump would be better than Clinton or literally anyone else on financial reform to prevent another 2008-style recession then you simply have no idea who is running in this election and are simply voting for the guy that isn't a Democrat or a "real" Republican. Please get educated if you truly think Trump is the "lesser of two evils" between him and Clinton. This goes double for the Bernie Bros.
I would be telling Bernie to wrap it up too if it weren't for the fact that Hillary has potential indictments hanging over her head. That alone is the reason to take this to the convention. If he can win a sizable amount in California he can make a good case to flip the superdelegates since he polls so much better against Trump and the candidate they're currently backing is [I]under federal investigation.[/I]
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50444686]Read my post again. It is the same dynamic, only it not between left and right, but corporate and none corporate. I am not defending the man. I am explaining to sobo is incorrect to assume the left vs right is all there is. Surprise, there are voters there who do not subscribe to values of either side, and see things way differently then most.
To an outsider, flipping from Sanders to Trump may seem illogical, but to the inside, the flip is not illogical. It is supporting the same set of values those entrenched with the left vs mind set do not get.
Hope this explains it.[/QUOTE]
I don't get why people think Trump isn't corporate. Just because he has the charisma of a reality tv star doesn't mean he's not the same old selfish businessman that we've seen a hundred times. He even said that a million dollars was a "small" loan. There's a huge and worrying grey area when it comes to his taxes. He does the same old amoral rich guy crap that many tycoons do, such as trying to use the legal system to stop a wind farm being built in Scotland because it would ruin the view from his golf course. It just piles up and proves that he really isn't the man of the people he portrays himself as.
Once Hillary announces Sanders as her VP pick to hold on to Sanders voters, all but the most idiotic Bernie-or-Busters will end up voting Hillary in order to hold on to the possibility that she could get indicted and Sanders could land the presidency post-election. Even people like cody would vote for her to hold on to that thin chance that he might end up as president. It's the only solution left after California inevitably fails on Sanders.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50445116]Once Hillary announces Sanders as her VP pick to hold on to Sanders voters, all but the most idiotic Bernie-or-Busters will end up voting Hillary in order to hold on to the possibility that she could get indicted and Sanders could land the presidency post-election. Even people like cody would vote for her to hold on to that thin chance that he might end up as president. It's the only solution left after California inevitably fails on Sanders.[/QUOTE]
Bernie is not done after California. He is now able to help write a huge chunk of the Democratic Party Platform.
[QUOTE=.Isak.;50445116]Once Hillary announces Sanders as her VP pick to hold on to Sanders voters, all but the most idiotic Bernie-or-Busters will end up voting Hillary in order to hold on to the possibility that she could get indicted and Sanders could land the presidency post-election. Even people like cody would vote for her to hold on to that thin chance that he might end up as president. It's the only solution left after California inevitably fails on Sanders.[/QUOTE]
No i wouldnt. If clinton picks sanders for VP whichshe wont. Bernie wouldnt accept it. If he did then he's a sellout and its more reason for me to vote for trump
[QUOTE=cody8295;50445227]No i wouldnt. If clinton picks sanders for VP whichshe wont. Bernie wouldnt accept it. If he did then he's a sellout and its more reason for me to vote for trump[/QUOTE]
Thank god Trump has never sold out
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50444549]if the candidate i blindly support and remain optimistic about winning to the end loses, then i shall vote for the candidate whose views are the diametric opposite of mine and i hate[/QUOTE]
You need to understand that Cody's perspective of the world we live in is informed primarily by fantasy. In his mind, per his own words, Donald Trump is "just pretending," and we are all going to be surprised to find out that he's actually been a secret liberal this whole time.
[editline]2nd June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=cody8295;50445227]No i wouldnt. If clinton picks sanders for VP whichshe wont. Bernie wouldnt accept it. If he did then he's a sellout and its more reason for me to vote for trump[/QUOTE]
See? Cody isn't "pro" anything, he's just Anti-Clinton. She could be running against Satan incarnate, and he would still be the "lesser of two evils" lol
[QUOTE=Big Dumb American;50445319]You need to understand that Cody's perspective of the world we live in is informed primarily by fantasy. In his mind, per his own words, Donald Trump is "just pretending," and we are all going to be surprised to find out that he's actually been a secret liberal this whole time.
[editline]2nd June 2016[/editline]
See? Cody isn't "pro" anything, he's just Anti-Clinton. She could be running against Satan incarnate, and he would still be the "lesser of two evils" lol[/QUOTE]
He's waiting for the Scooby Doo unmasking where President Trump is revealed to be Sanders in a latex mask.
[QUOTE=cody8295;50445227]No i wouldnt. If clinton picks sanders for VP whichshe wont. Bernie wouldnt accept it. If he did then he's a sellout and its more reason for me to vote for trump[/QUOTE]
you know i used to believe that smoking weed didn't make you stupid but reading your posts i'm starting to believe it
nyone else ready for a clinton presidency? Can't wait to see our civil rights slowly corrode, get draggd into a war with Iran and the cost of living skyrocket.
Oh, and for the student debt bubble to pop.
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50445355]nyone else ready for a [B]Trump[/B] presidency? Can't wait to see our civil rights slowly corrode, get draggd into a war with Iran and the cost of living skyrocket.
Oh, and for the student debt bubble to pop.[/QUOTE]
FTFY
[QUOTE=cody8295;50445227]No i wouldnt. If clinton picks sanders for VP whichshe wont. Bernie wouldnt accept it. If he did then he's a sellout and its more reason for me to vote for trump[/QUOTE]
cowboy "i literally sell my name and persona to advertise things" trump?
i mean if you're voting based on whos gonna sell out or not, then why the fuck trump? trump sold out long ago and keeps on doing do constantly
[QUOTE=Sobotnik;50444730]i didn't mention left v right in my post
just that i find it utterly bizarre how people can switch from bernie to [U]trump when they are about as opposite as you can get.[/U] bernie wants to turn the usa into norway, while trump wants to bring it back to the gilded age[/QUOTE]
Once again, you missed the point of my post. To some with a set of values (or views) you do not understand or interests different then yours, they are not polar opposites.
[QUOTE]Yes they ARE!
[/QUOTE]
Read my post again. Keep reading it till the point sets in. Ive explained it plainly as best I can.
[QUOTE]I don't get why people think Trump isn't corporate.[/QUOTE]
Read the post again, He is paying lip service to the idea of campaign reform. Just like Hilary gives lip service to leftist values. Trump is the shit sandwich for those are desperate for ANY ONE to have those who are responsible for the 2008 crisis out of office while Clinton is the pro corporate shit sandwich. No different then your thinking of you rather vote for liberal shit sandwich over a republican shit sandwich. Same reasoning.
I am not defending for voting for Trump. I am trying to explain why the so called "illogical" flip.
[QUOTE=Dayzofwinter;50445384]Once again, you missed the point of my post. To some with a set of values you do not understand or interests different then yours, they are not polar opposites.[/QUOTE]
Yes they ARE!
I know the US is huge, but their voting system seems weirdly over-complicated to me; with districts, and super-delegates and whatnot.
Wouldn't it be relatively simple to have the "one man, one vote" rule apply nowadays?
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50445388]Yes they ARE![/QUOTE]
Read my posts again. There are people with views that see them as the same. You just getting upset because you are stuck in your world view and do not want to consider there more then just what you are aware of.
I am assuming Cody is anti Clinton because he is afraid of a repeat of 2008 recession. As so am I. I however just going to roll with the punches no matter who wins.
[QUOTE=cody8295;50445227]No i wouldnt. If clinton picks sanders for VP whichshe wont. Bernie wouldnt accept it. If he did then he's a sellout and its more reason for me to vote for trump[/QUOTE]
Bernie told Wolf Blitzer on CNN that he'd talk about a potential Vice Presidential position with Clinton after the convention when the question was posed to him. He didn't shut it down or anything - he's open to the possibility, and it wouldn't surprise me if he decided to accept an offer because [i]more than anything[/i] he doesn't want to see Trump in office. He's repeated this time and time again - you're ignoring your own idol.
I don't know why I continue to debate you. You haven't researched any of this, as proven time and time again. You've got the political understanding of a two-year-old child. Not one ounce of reasonable thought, just repeated rhetoric and dogmatic thinking. I won't ever convince you, but I'll be happy to know that you'd vote for Trump over a potential Bernie presidency because Bernie's inevitable endorsement of Clinton disgusts you so much.
[editline]2nd June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=OmniConsUme;50445199]Bernie is not done after California. He is now able to help write a huge chunk of the Democratic Party Platform.[/QUOTE]
I'm aware, and I'm very happy he's doing this. I absolutely don't want him to drop out and I want a contested convention to get more progressive policies for the Democratic Party. But after the convention, when he loses, he'll endorse Hillary and the smartest move by the Democratic party would be to offer him a vice presidential slot. He should accept that if he wants Hillary to win over Trump (which he [i]has repeatedly said time and time again[/i] he does).
[editline]2nd June 2016[/editline]
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;50445355]nyone else ready for a clinton presidency? Can't wait to see our civil rights slowly corrode, get draggd into a war with Iran and the cost of living skyrocket.
Oh, and for the student debt bubble to pop.[/QUOTE]
Cite in her voting history [i]anywhere[/i] where she's voted against civil rights. Trump's against [i]net fucking neutrality[/i]. Clinton's in favor. Hillary's talked about making the NSA more transparent and limiting their powers somewhat - Trump wants to [i]expand[/i] the NSA to make a Muslim watchlist.
Hillary is [i]the last person who would drag us into a war in Iran[/i]. If you said Syria, I might understand your concern, because I share it - but Iran? She initiated the Iran nuclear deal and spent a lot of time as Secretary of State working with the Obama administration to work on normalizing relations with Iran. She's not going to take a shit over the last decade of her own work to go to war with them.
Trump's economic policies would skyrocket the cost of living. His tax plan would [i]drastically[/i] increase income inequality, and his plan to allow the US to default without renegotiation international debts would radically increase currency inflation as other countries begin to refuse to accept US dollars due to 16 trillion dollars in failed payments.
Again, cite something and I'd be happy to admit I'm wrong, but each of these complaints are [i]far[/i] more obvious under a Trump presidency than a Clinton one.
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