• “Moderate” Muslims destroy [extremist] Wahhabi Mosque in Indonesia.
    88 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Levithan;26643478]So the universal teachings of "treat others as you want to be treated" mean absolutely nothing then?[/QUOTE] It doesn't really mean anything to the people following it.
[QUOTE=Vinze;26643431]Islamophobia is a made up word[/QUOTE] well all words are made up and islamophobia is just a compound of islam and phobia so uh, what?
This gonna be good :munch:
[QUOTE=Levithan;26643478]So the universal teachings of "treat others as you want to be treated" mean absolutely nothing then?[/QUOTE] That's taught even without a religion, and many religions make excuses to treat others badly. The good religion has done can be done without, but the bad would need a better excuse than 'God said so.' Look at the hate against gays in America, which is driven almost entirely by religious people following their holy book.
[QUOTE=Dr_Funk;26642851]I don't think the OP's version of the sect as always infidel hating is correct. After all, I believe Saudi Arabia are Wahhabist, and while it is a very socially conservative country, it retains better relations with the West than many of its Middle-Eastern counterparts. That said, how can we encourage this sort of mob-violence? I find it ridiculous that many FP members in this thread would condemn violence against the WBC, but find mob attacks on this sect laudable.[/QUOTE] Who the fuck doesn't support beating the shit out the WBC Wanna put out a forest fire, light a bigger one ahead of it.
[QUOTE=Penguiin;26641459]sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.[/QUOTE] Then what's the alternative? Science? What has science bred? Nuclear and chemical weaponry ,AIDS (arguable) and genetically modified crops. People have always found reason to fight wars and it just so happens that religion may have been used as a reason. However it's not to say that Science didn't play it's part in various attrocities, how about Project Manhattan or the Holocaust? It's also a very closed system, almost as much as religion is. Take the example of Dr Velikovski, in 1950 he published a book titles [I]Worlds in Collision[/I] which challanged fundemental assumptions of various scientific fields, scientists rushed to reject it without even bothering to read it and those who tried to support him were either victimised or fired. Whether you believe in religion or not the fact remains that it gives people comfort when they're in situations out of their control. Of course it would be ignorant to state that religion is entirely good but to say that it's entirely bad is also just as ignorant. [editline]12th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Vinze;26643431][B]Islamophobia is a made up word[/B], there is no mental disease connected to that of disliking cultists. ...Well, there is "common sense", but, I don't know enough latin to confirm that...[/QUOTE] All words are, they're just sounds we make/write down to convey an idea.
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26641748] You've got the israeli's attacking the palestinians and vice versa.[/QUOTE] I lol'd. What Israelis attacking the Palestinians has to do with religion?
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;26644230]Then what's the alternative? Science? What has science bred? Nuclear and chemical weaponry ,AIDS (arguable) and genetically modified crops. People have always found reason to fight wars and it just so happens that religion may have been used as a reason. However it's not to say that Science didn't play it's part in various attrocities, how about Project Manhattan or the Holocaust?[/QUOTE] Religion starts wars, science just provides the weapons. Atleast science is actually trying to discover what the universe is, where we came from while trying to also fix the problems of humanity. Religion just says have faith and hope for the best. [editline]12th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Crhem van der B;26644258]I lol'd. What Israelis attacking the Palestinians has to do with religion?[/QUOTE] Between them it all just boils down to because one's muslim and the other's jewish.
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;26644230]Then what's the alternative? Science? What has science bred? Nuclear and chemical weaponry ,AIDS (arguable) and genetically modified crops. People have always found reason to fight wars and it just so happens that religion may have been used as a reason. However it's not to say that Science didn't play it's part in various attrocities, how about Project Manhattan or the Holocaust? [/quote] Science is not malicious or benevolent, it is neutral. Science did not force any of those things, it just made them possible. Before you say all it has given us is bad, modern medicine and technology have more than made up for the lives lost in the holocaust and from Nuclear weapons. Science is not the new religion, it will not change. It will however encourage the population to encourage and not hinder it's progress. [quote]It's also a very closed system, almost as much as religion is. Take the example of Dr Velikovski, in 1950 he published a book titles [I]Worlds in Collision[/I] which challanged fundemental assumptions of various scientific fields, scientists rushed to reject it without even bothering to read it and those who tried to support him were either victimised or fired. Whether you believe in religion or not the fact remains that it gives people comfort when they're in situations out of their control. [/quote] I know that book, it is a complete farce. All it was was a complete work of fiction that some idiot tried to use to explain the works of the Bible. The very fact that Venus was observed in the sky long before anything the Bible tries to explain should be enough but everything else was disproved too. For fucks sake, the idea that the orbit of Venus coming close to Earth and stopping it's rotation just for a bit and then putting it exactly back on a 24-hour cycle in itself should be absurd enough. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worlds_in_Collision[/url] Scientists, at least the good ones, always stick to their principles of looking at new ideas. If that doesn't happen, it's not science (or bad science). The problem with your example is that it didn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny and when after examination it was thrown out, you act as though there is some scientific aristocracy. Get the fuck out. [quote]Of course it would be ignorant to state that religion is entirely good but to say that it's entirely bad is also just as ignorant.[/quote] The few good things from religion have long since expired. There are far better alternatives with a far greater overall result. Clinging onto it for the sake of those few good parts that are barely there any more is idiotic. [editline]12th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26644291]Between them it all just boils down to because one's muslim and the other's jewish.[/QUOTE] Ethnic groups, not religious groups. Even if they were the same race they would find some divide between them and attack each other. Some conflicts will happen regardless of religion but others are based entirely on it.
Religion is still a rather big factor there. Muslims aren't the best of friends with the jewish. Maybe not the primary reason, but it is there.
[QUOTE=Devodiere;26644345] [B]Scientists, at least the good ones, always stick to their principles of looking at new ideas.[/B] If that doesn't happen, it's not science (or bad science). The problem with your example is that it didn't stand up to the slightest scrutiny and when after examination it was thrown out, [B]you act as though there is some scientific aristocracy. Get the fuck out. [/B] [/QUOTE] First off, I may have worded myself wrongly there, I don't look at science as a rligion but rather a belief system.Then why, if I say wanted to publish an article in a journal would they refuse it as it didn't conform with the views of the time the fact remains that scientists didn't even read it and were just told to boycott it so they did. Darwins ideas weren't initially accepted either, the older scientists had to die off first before it became accepted, the same goes for nearly every other scientific theory that went against the grain.
[QUOTE=MachiniOs;26644474]First off, I may have worded myself wrongly there, I don't look at science as a rligion but rather a belief system.Then why, if I say wanted to publish an article in a journal would they refuse it as it didn't conform with the views of the time the fact remains that scientists didn't even read it and were just told to boycott it so they did. Darwins ideas weren't initially accepted either, the older scientists had to die off first before it became accepted, the same goes for nearly every other scientific theory that went against the grain.[/QUOTE] Because just like any other Journal article you try to Publish, it will have to have many many sources. Proof as a basis and at least something that is not too far from reality. Darwin's publication was controvertial TO THE CHURCH. To other scientists, they saw that his observations were backed up and his claims and explanations for them were realistic. No-one had to die off, if anyone actually read it they listened and were at least intellectually critical of his claims. The shit you come up with however, is some fairy tale explanation that raises a million and one problems more than it solves when a far simpler answer is available. If you came up with any proof that was reliable along with some proof that your explanation is correct then sure but THAT SHIT AIN'T GONNA HAPPEN!
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26641748]In the big picture, Religion IS bad. You've got the pope covering up child rape. You've got the israeli's attacking the palestinians and vice versa. You've got the extremists. You've constantly got religions attacking other religions. Not to mention you've also got things like WBC. Not much good comes from it all.[/QUOTE] You could say the same for many different area's of human civilization.
Not really, there's not much that's actually comparable to religion. Unless you want to go into politics, but that's a completely different story.
[QUOTE=bravehat;26643970]Who the fuck doesn't support beating the shit out the WBC Wanna put out a forest fire, light a bigger one ahead of it.[/QUOTE] While some of them deserve a good kick in the arse, we're civilised people and that's not how we roll.
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26640807]Rid the world of religion: world peace.[/QUOTE] I am pretty sure certain people thought this about non-white races. And it's pretty much true. If all races except for one completely died out, there wouldn't be any racism possible anymore.
Fundamentalist religion is the problem. Whether it's Muslims who stone Christians in the streets, Christians who bomb abortion clinics, Jews who oppress their Muslim neighbors, or Hindus who attack Islamic countries. Modernity causes no problems and allows those who have different views to persist in peace, while fundamentalist religion most likely in entirely intolerant of any other views besides their own.
One less Mosque. 9999999 more to go.
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26640807]Rid the world of religion: world peace.[/QUOTE] Rid the world of islam: world peace.
[QUOTE=Vinze;26643431]Islamophobia is a made up word, there is no mental disease connected to that of disliking cultists. ...Well, there is "common sense", but, I don't know enough latin to confirm that...[/QUOTE] Call the world's biggest religion a cult. Stay classy, Facepunch. [editline]12th December 2010[/editline] [QUOTE=Instant Mix;26643451]I'm sorry , but a subsection of a religion that hates the other parts of it's own religion is just one of the most ridiculous things i've ever heard. oh islam you[/QUOTE] Moderate Christians who hate WBC?
[QUOTE=Prismatex;26647886]Call the world's biggest religion a cult. Stay classy, Facepunch.[/QUOTE] Christianity is the world's biggest religion.
[QUOTE=Awesomecaek;26645781]I am pretty sure certain people thought this about non-white races. And it's pretty much true. If all races except for one completely died out, there wouldn't be any racism possible anymore.[/QUOTE] Haven't you seen the Fairly Oddparents, ever? In the episode where Timmy wishes everyone was EXACTLY the same (by making everything grey and people all grey blobs), people's egos still broke through, claiming they were the "greyest" and the "blobiest". It wouldn't solve any problems, people would simply find other ways to hate each other. It's the same with weapons. You could delete guns from the world and people would kill each other with bows and spears, and if you removed everyone's limbs they'd still try to bite each other. People will hate each other for the dumbest reasons, it's just how we are. [QUOTE=Explosions;26647941]Christianity if the world's biggest religion.[/QUOTE] Population yes, influence, no.
[QUOTE=CertainDOOM;26640807]Rid the world of religion: world peace.[/QUOTE] well it would stop a lot but most war is caused by a need for resources
Yey Moderates
If there was no religion, then people would commit mass murder and such in the name of nationalism, or in the name of a philosophy. Getting rid of religion fixes nothing, trying to exterminate a religion usually only makes it stronger.
[QUOTE=_Kent_;26650706]If there was no religion, then people would commit mass murder and such in the name of nationalism, or in the name of a philosophy. Getting rid of religion fixes nothing, trying to exterminate a religion usually only makes it stronger.[/QUOTE] thats like saying if you get rid of cancer there will be other things to kill us. while yes its true it would still have a lot of lives
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;26650977]thats like saying if you get rid of cancer there will be other things to kill us. while yes its true it would still have a lot of lives[/QUOTE] I'll have to disagree. These people want to kill because of the way they were raised, the perceived injustices against their people, and what their leaders tell them. Religion is only one of many possible excuses. Also, how would you go about getting rid of religion without a bloodbath? Is someone just going to walk up to every religious person's house and say "stop believing what you want or we we kill/fine/jail you? That has never worked in the past.
So theres sectarian violence in the Muslim faith, its in Christianity too. Protestants and Catholics have been going at it like them for ages too. Its dumb to brand an entire sect of a faith as moderates, theres loons in all of them and level headed people too.
Hey, people call for violence against the WBC in threads about them. The difference between WBC and Wahhabis is that the Wahhabis have actual influence, so it's not surprising that moderates get violent with them.
[QUOTE=Penguiin;26641459]sorry, there is everything wrong with religion. religion breeds disinformation and denial of hard fact. religion has been the cause for countless wars and religious prejudice in history. it has contributed absolutely nothing except false hope to our world.[/QUOTE] it's contributed a lot, actually like the birth of science, for one
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