• Opinion: "Why I'm keeping my Windows XP machine"
    285 replies, posted
[QUOTE=tirpider;41659182]But if you don't put the machine with the security flaws anywhere near where those things can be exploited, then there isn't a problem.[/QUOTE] In that case, I hope you don't have it connected to the Internet.
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[QUOTE=soundblaster;41659200]In that case, I hope you don't have it connected to the Internet.[/QUOTE] Exactly. You can't remotely exploit anything on a non-networked machine. Security issues are just ideological at that point. Casual users should always update their stuff though. Don't want anyone running off with your facepunch password. Important data must be protected. [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=JoshJosh117;41659266]Exactly what software are you referring to?[/QUOTE] I'm not going to get into that. Not gonna be rude, just evasive.
I for one am fine with phasing out XP; especially since my job utilizes it on a lot of stuff that is old, inefficient and decrepit. Heck, we're still printing on 1990's IBM Greenbar accounting machines. Which if things go according to schedule we'll be switching to a standard Windows based program that will make my life and everyone's around me a whole lot easier. It also means we get to use part of the budget to upgrade to beefier--new computers that don't take 15 minutes to get completely booted up.
I'm a giant Metathesiophobe, so i have Dosbox running in 3.11 on my win 98 VM that's running on my 32-bit Win XP machine with 64 GB Ram, i7 3990X, 3 Titans. I refuse to use software produced post 1987. Oh and i'm 47 and willing to meet anywhere on the western hemisphere if you happen to be Female. lol
My dad owns a company that deals with ocean surveying work. All of the navigational equipment, Remote Operated Vehicle terminals, computers that hold survey data, mining data and control drilling rigs all still use XP. Hell, a couple still use Windows 98.
[QUOTE=Quark:;41656132]I'm sticking with Windows XP for a bit longer because I like Windows XP. All of my software works on my OS, all of my games work on my OS, and so on. I haven't run into anything barring me from using anything that I wanted to use. That being said, I do plan on upgrading eventually, just not soon. I've been using Windows XP since it was released and I've liked using it. I take care of my computer so it's never slow, I don't download software from YouTube videos about game hacks and I know what sites not to browse so I don't have security issues, etc. I don't understand why people bandwagon on the anti-XP road. If I'm using XP it doesn't affect you. You can argue that you have to support my OS, but that's not true. If you don't support my OS then I won't use your software. It's that simple. I [I]am[/I] excited for an upgrade though, as soon as I've got the funds and the motivation. :quagmire:[/QUOTE] I've always had problems and problem with XP I have fucking reformatted that thing so many times now for some after a few months of use it starts to get slower and slower until it starts shitting all over with error and bsods, win 7 is a fucking miracle I've had almost no problems with it so far other than incompatibility issues. Its far from perfect since it lost a few things that made xp great. Let's hope win 9 is even better without the metro bullfuck.
[QUOTE=tirpider;41659268]Exactly. You can't remotely exploit anything on a non-networked machine. Security issues are just ideological at that point. Casual users should always update their stuff though. Don't want anyone running off with your facepunch password. Important data must be protected. [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] I'm not going to get into that. Not gonna be rude, just evasive.[/QUOTE] So what about the software that only runs on XP and requires networking? I'm sure there is something out there. To be honest, a VM is better than a physical machine in all aspects. For one, you don't have to find drivers to run it (because fuck networking, graphics and sound in XP), two you don't have to waste electricity on running a separate machine, and three if it gets infected with ad/mal/whatever-ware then all you need to do is delete the virtual disk and re-install the OS, which takes at most an hour of your time, and while it's installing you can be doing other things, such as browsing the internet. [t]http://puu.sh/3Qe1y/03a601daa5.png[/t]
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[QUOTE=Tomthetechy;41659465]My dad owns a company that deals with ocean surveying work. All of the navigational equipment, Remote Operated Vehicle terminals, computers that hold survey data, mining data and control drilling rigs all still use XP. Hell, a couple still use Windows 98.[/QUOTE] A year or so one of the banks around here had some computer issues or something, they didn't exactly say what happened. It prompted all the atm machines in the mall i was in to restart. Every single one i could see ran XP with MacAfee anti-virus :v:
[QUOTE=BreenIsALie;41659584]A year or so one of the banks around here had some computer issues or something, they didn't exactly say what happened. It prompted all the atm machines in the mall i was in to restart. Every single one i could see ran XP with MacAfee anti-virus :v:[/QUOTE] I've seen cash machines running windows 2000 before.
[QUOTE=tirpider;41659065]Except that the equivalent free applications for my purposes do not meet my needs. I suppose I could start contacting developers and begging for a solution, or hell, even start down the road of writing my own (already do for some things)... or I can continue to be productive with a set-up that [I]is[/I] working without having to fap around getting other people involved in my work.[/QUOTE] The free equivalents not meeting your needs is a reason for the software that does meet them to be free. Then you or someone else could patch it to make it work on a better OS. By the way you understand what free software is, right? I'm not talking about price at all. [QUOTE=tirpider;41659065]I really don't understand why folks have such a prejudice against older software.[/QUOTE] Because newer software in this case simply does every better in every way. Buying into and using software that isn't properly supported anymore isn't a very good reason to not upgrade, it's a great reason to not rely on shitty developers in future though.
[QUOTE=zombojoe;41656293]I installed XP on an old computer i reformatted because it ran many times faster than Windows 7.[/QUOTE] I just put Linux distributions on old computers because they can run on like 32mb of ram [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=notlabbet;41656803]funnily enough, im building a windows 98 machine so i can transfer my gameboy camera pictures over because the cable is only compatible with 95 and 98. Old OS still have their place.[/QUOTE] My gbc gameshark is like that too
[QUOTE=sambooo;41659632]Because newer software in this case simply does every better in every way. Buying into and using software that isn't properly supported anymore isn't a very good reason to not upgrade, it's a great reason to not rely on shitty developers in future though.[/QUOTE] Unfortunately, that is where you're wrong. Some older games simply won't run on newer versions of windows, even under compatibility mode. Many of them will work perfectly on a VM though.
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;41659658]Unfortunately, that is where you're wrong. Some older games simply won't run on newer versions of windows, even under compatibility mode. Many of them will work perfectly on a VM though.[/QUOTE] I covered that case entirely with my last sentence in that quote. Old games are unsupported software and/or from shitty developers who are too lazy to fix it.
My house still has 4 machines running WinXP, and until we throw them out it will continue to have them, 2 are old as shit laptops from '05 and the others are netbooks that we don't really use anymore, and none are really worth upgrading to a newer OS. We also have one machine on Vista and another 4 on 7. I don't really intend to get Win8.
[QUOTE=sambooo;41659696]I covered that case entirely with my last sentence in that quote. Old games are unsupported software and/or from shitty developers who are too lazy to fix it.[/QUOTE] What about the developers that don't actually develop any more? [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] Or discontinued games/software
[QUOTE=Lachz0r;41655870]why i'm keeping my windows xp machine: i'm too poor to afford a new computer[/QUOTE] This is the case for me. I've been wanting to upgrade from XP forever, I just haven't had the means to do it yet.
[QUOTE=NO ONE;41659791]This is the case for me. I've been wanting to upgrade from XP forever, I just haven't had the means to do it yet.[/QUOTE] And it's too hard for you to pick up a netbook for £150? Surely it wouldn't take [quote]forever[/quote] to save for a cheap windows 7 netbook?
[QUOTE=AJisAwesome15;41656898]what pisses me off about uac though is that i can't stop the notifications appearing whenever i run an application without disabling it completely. maybe there is a way and i'm just dumb though.[/QUOTE] disabling notifications is the same thing as disabling it completely. there is no reason to have uac enabled if it doesn't notify you. unless you want to disable notifications for certain programs, and yet have those run as administrator? in which case, [URL=http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=7352]click here[/url], install, open, click "fix", find the program, select the options "runasadmin" and "runasinvoker", then after saving your database(to your desktop), follow [URL=http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee732408%28v=ws.10%29.aspx]here[/URL]. [QUOTE=TheDecryptor;41657293]Sure, but why not just run it in a VM then? Takes up less space and is easier to maintain (Hell, you can sandbox stuff to their own VM images extremely easily)[/QUOTE] well its about $100 for a VMware license, and XP mode on win7 is awful. and MS isn't giving out keys for winXP anymore, making it very difficult to set up a new VM legally. [QUOTE=soundblaster;41659060]The thing is, Wine supports a lot of old Windows software better than Windows does...[/QUOTE] Have you managed to get DirectX working with wine? i always have problems. [QUOTE=Mike Tyson;41656865]you can stay open to vunerabilities when ms pulls the plug on updates, xp is basically swiss cheese now and its a decade old[/QUOTE] assuming the NSA doesn't make another flame virus, having your computer plugged into the net is fine. following the same practices you would on a modern machine(dont open porn.exe) there is nothing that will get through XP.
I'm having to use this rust bucket with XP on since my gaming comp with Win 7 died a few months ago, and I'm still waiting for the money to replace it. I hate it. Its slower than 7, and freezes regularly when I'm browsing the internet.
Isn't Windows XP 64 bit extremely finicky and require special 64 bit drivers for absolutely everything? So this guy is saying that as someone who runs a business he wants to run a computer in 2013, with 4GB or less of RAM? From a quick google, new casio cash registers cost something like $250 (lets face it, if his wife's cash registers use COM ports they probably aren't fancy). I've read about fancy CNC machines and medical machines that only operate on very specific versions of windows, so its understandable when we're discussing something that costs extreme amounts, but a cash register? All that will happen is one day the cash register will break, and it will likely be cheaper to just buy new ones than pay someone to come and fix them or get them services (labor costs in certain countries are fucking horrendous), then he will have to pop down $250 for a new cash register. Not only that, there are PCI Express RS232 ports available too.
[QUOTE=Dr.Critic;41659844]I'm having to use this rust bucket with XP on since my gaming comp with Win 7 died a few months ago, and I'm still waiting for the money to replace it. I hate it. Its slower than 7, and freezes regularly when I'm browsing the internet.[/QUOTE] i think the reason for that would be single vs multicore processor, not the OS itself. [QUOTE=nigerianprince;41659877] From a quick google, new casio cash registers cost something like $250 (lets face it, if his wife's cash registers use COM ports they probably aren't fancy). I've read about fancy CNC machines and medical machines that only operate on very specific versions of windows, so its understandable when we're discussing something that costs extreme amounts, but a cash register? All that will happen is one day the cash register will break, and it will likely be cheaper to just buy new ones than pay someone to come and fix them or get them services (labor costs in certain countries are fucking horrendous), then he will have to pop down $250 for a new cash register.[/QUOTE] the article mentions maybe someday he will, but for now, it doesn't make any economic sense to switch.
Also, doesn't Windows 8 include a free Windows XP key for exactly this type of customer?
[QUOTE=willtheoct;41659823] disabling notifications is the same thing as disabling it completely. there is no reason to have uac enabled if it doesn't notify you. unless you want to disable notifications for certain programs, and yet have those run as administrator? in which case, [URL=http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=7352]click here[/url], install, open, click "fix", find the program, select the options "runasadmin" and "runasinvoker", then after saving your database(to your desktop), follow [URL=http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ee732408%28v=ws.10%29.aspx]here[/URL]. [/QUOTE] Why would someone disable UAC? It's pointless to do so. [QUOTE=willtheoct;41659823] well its about $100 for a VMware license, and XP mode on win7 is awful. and MS isn't giving out keys for winXP anymore, making it very difficult to set up a new VM legally. [/QUOTE] I don't think many people do it legally. It's not like they'd use the VM for everyday use. VMware Player does just as well as the workstation and I believe it's free (correct me if I'm wrong?) If not, then there's always virtualbox. [QUOTE=willtheoct;41659823] Have you managed to get DirectX running on wine? i always have problems. [/QUOTE] I won't even go into this. [QUOTE=willtheoct;41659823] assuming the NSA doesn't make another flame virus, having your computer plugged into the net is fine. following the same practices you would on a modern machine(dont open porn.exe) there is nothing that will get through XP.[/QUOTE] Eventually antivirus software will stop being supported on earlier windows versions (such as web browsers) and people will be forced to upgrade. [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=nigerianprince;41659888]Also, doesn't Windows 8 include a free Windows XP key for exactly this type of customer?[/QUOTE] Don't think so, at least I didn't get one with mine.
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;41659908] Don't think so, at least I didn't get one with mine.[/QUOTE] It doesn't include a physical key, but you can download XP mode from their website: [url]http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002[/url] As far as I understand it, it runs XP in an actual sandbox or virtual setup (whatever it is called). So 16-bit programs will actually work etc.
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;41659931]It doesn't include a physical key, but you can download XP mode from their website: [url]http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002[/url] As far as I understand it, it runs XP in an actual sandbox or virtual setup (whatever it is called). So 16-bit programs will actually work etc.[/QUOTE] Oh yes, it does that but I don't think graphics intensive games work as well as they would on VMware.
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;41659942]Oh yes, it does that but I don't think graphics intensive games work as well as they would on VMware.[/QUOTE] Probably not, but for shit like updating your wife's cash registers it would surely work. Doesn't it pretty much work in realtime for processors running in realtime? Anyway, there is only one game I can think of that only works on Windows XP 16 bit mode that I would be that fucked to install to play... [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Simtower.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=nigerianprince;41659952]Probably not, but for shit like updating your wife's cash registers it would surely work. Doesn't it pretty much work in realtime for processors running in realtime? Anyway, there is only one game I can think of that only works on Windows XP 16 bit mode that I would be that fucked to install to play... [IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/74/Simtower.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE] True, but as I said there are things that can't be done in the environment XP mode has. I guess different legacy software calls for different environments. [editline]31st July 2013[/editline] [QUOTE=nigerianprince;41659931]It doesn't include a physical key, but you can download XP mode from their website: [url]http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=8002[/url] As far as I understand it, it runs XP in an actual sandbox or virtual setup (whatever it is called). So 16-bit programs will actually work etc.[/QUOTE] [IMG]http://puu.sh/3Qgfi/18b5f16d8f.png[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Mors Quaedam;41659499]So what about the software that only runs on XP and requires networking? I'm sure there is something out there. To be honest, a VM is better than a physical machine in all aspects. For one, you don't have to find drivers to run it (because fuck networking, graphics and sound in XP), two you don't have to waste electricity on running a separate machine, and three if it gets infected with ad/mal/whatever-ware then all you need to do is delete the virtual disk and re-install the OS, which takes at most an hour of your time, and while it's installing you can be doing other things, such as browsing the internet. [/QUOTE] (-way too long rant deleted because fuck that.) It's not networked, and I am not going to buy a new machine so I can run a desktop in a window. I see that as a waste of money. A friend once joked about plugging an mp3 player into a cassette adapter and using that in an 8-track/cassette adapter so he could listen to his itunes in his old Ford Pinto. That's how I feel about VM's. Why virtual when native is working fine? [QUOTE=JoshJosh117;41659514]Why? I'm finding it hard to believe that whatever it is that only works with XP doesn't have some sort of newer alternative.[/QUOTE] There are. But the only feature complete ones I have found have been open source linux stuff, and I just don't want to do that. I've played with various distros here and there and it just isn't for me. (@Mors Quaedam there is a good use for VM's.. testing OS's before you fuck up your system with it.) I do keep an eye on stuff. If new things come up, I evaluate their potential. I'm not a fool. I know that the machine will flat die one day and I'll need to replace it. Buying another clunky P4 and slapping XP on it will seem as absurd as doing a fresh 486 build. I may go the VM route, but only if circumstances require it. And certainly not because MS says so. They still think BOB was a good idea. I have a question. Why does it matter what other folks are running? Am I so out of the loop that I missed some sort of moral attachment to OS's? I'm not in charge of anyone's web secrets or bank accounts, so.. why should anyone care? (-afterthought: Why did I care enough to even post to begin with? ... kneejerk I guess. Ya'll helped me learn something today.) (-post afterthought afterthought: I think we can all agree it's time to donate my wife's old WinME machine to a prison.)
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