[QUOTE=Talkbox;35670419]The amount of disagree ratings on this post suggests that people think there are actually some people who deserve to die.[/QUOTE]
Well... if someone's opening fire with an AK at me... I kinda wish for him to die... yeah.
Even if you kill some of the poachers doesn't mean the problem has been solved. There are still a lot of other poachers alive who will inevitably kill the elephants instead. Due to poor living conditions in countries like Kenya, people don't have much of a choice but to accept whatever oppurtunity arises to secure their income, so I don't get why people are celebrating the death of people trying to survive.
Instead, a larger focus should be taken on those who make poaching profitable (i.e. the buyers), as good living conditions will be more of a long-term goal that can't be solved in the near future.
[QUOTE=cccritical;35664388]facepunch flip-flops on every topic but gun control and there are always tards on both sides of every argument
the only catch here is that it was 99% likely that the rangers were firing back in self-defence, nobody should be condemning the rangers but I'm not sure why they're lauding them[/QUOTE]
I wasn't condemning anyone. The poachers probably attacked the rangers and the outcome was natural, but it's peculiar how someone can be stabbed and the moment someone thinks the assailant deserves death they get flamed. Poachers get shot, motherfuckers got what they deserved.
[QUOTE=JCDentonUNATCO;35664521]It's not like Facepunch is made up of almost 3000 people posting at any given time who have differing opinions.[/QUOTE]
So that means there can't be a majority of people sharing an opinion? The viewpoints of the majority of Facepunchers are often pretty evident, and they are usually against death/death sentence for criminal behaviour.
[QUOTE=RR_Raptor65;35668341]The value of someone's life drops to zero pretty damn fast when they drive an entire species to extinction.[/QUOTE]
I think it's pretty fucking horrible that entire species are being driven extinct, but it isn't black and white. I understand where the poachers are coming from and the conditions they probably face in their daily life. If the lives of your family are one the line, I don't think you care about an elephant. I honestly don't even think they know that elephants are endangered.
This entire topic has thrown me for a loop. Every time a drunk wifebeating slob shakes his baby to death or a batshit crazy mother drowns her kids and slits their throats, everyone on this board piles boxes on the one or two posters saying "I don't normally advocate the death penalty but this scum deserves it". There are people arguing that Breivik should be jailed for life and that execution is too harsh a penalty for massacring 70 teenagers.
But when five guys hunting elephants outside the letter of the law get killed in a gun battle with what passes for law enforcement in Kenya, the entire topic is [B]WOOOO FUCK YEAH 100 WINNERS DEATH TO POACHERS[/B]? We're actually arguing to demean the value of those five lives with "At least they're not miserable anymore"?
It's not [I]wrong[/I] that they're dead, that was inevitable given their lifestyle, but this topic has been like those braindead idiots who were in the streets celebrating and chanting "U-S-A! U-S-A!" when Osama bin Laden got killed, except now its "ELEPHANTS!"
So many white knights in this thread.
They don't poach because they are in poverty lmfao, they poach because the ivory tusk trade is an extremely lucrative business. Big cash.
This isn't the kid in the ghetto who robs people's homes so he doesn't starve, there are poachers from just about every background and ethnicity you can think of.
I'm not going to celebrate their deaths, but welp, if you shoot at people in africa, expect to get shot back at.
[editline]22nd April 2012[/editline]
As an aside, the fact they managed to kill all 5 of them in a firefight means the rangers were either really lucky, or they are very skilled. Don't fuck with kenyan rangers I guess.
[QUOTE=Chrille;35672734]I think it's pretty fucking horrible that entire species are being driven extinct, but it isn't black and white. I understand where the poachers are coming from and the conditions they probably face in their daily life. If the lives of your family are one the line, I don't think you care about an elephant. I honestly don't even think they know that elephants are endangered.[/QUOTE]
Of course they do. It's the economics of extinction. They don't [i]care[/i] that they're going extinct. The more extinct they are, the rarer their product is, and the more money they can make off it. These people are [i]rich[/i]. This business is very, very lucrative. It is on par with drug lords and organized crime. A large majority of poached items go to Asia to fuel their traditional medicine demand. You can sell a single ivory tusk for [i]ten thousand dollars.[/i] Since the demand is from China, I wouldn't be surprised at all if the poachers were backed by Chinese crime organizations like many shark finners are turning out to be. They don't do this to feed their families, they do it to feed their wallets.
[url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-17686365[/url] - tusks being sold in the open in Africa
They literally make a killing doing this.
[editline]22nd April 2012[/editline]
[QUOTE=JaegerMonster;35675526]They don't poach because they are in poverty lmfao, they poach because the ivory tusk trade is an extremely lucrative business. Big cash.
This isn't the kid in the ghetto who robs people's homes so he doesn't starve, there are poachers from just about every background and ethnicity you can think of.
I'm not going to celebrate their deaths, but welp, if you shoot at people in africa, expect to get shot back at.
[editline]22nd April 2012[/editline]
As an aside, the fact they managed to kill all 5 of them in a firefight means the rangers were either really lucky, or they are very skilled. Don't fuck with kenyan rangers I guess.[/QUOTE]
Poaching is sort of a secondary income for African rebel groups. So park rangers have to be prepared to fight them off. They are very good at what they do. They are not smoky-the-bear rangers like in the states, they wear camouflage and carry AK's, and they will kill you if you're threatening them or their wildlife.
[QUOTE=Flem;35663125]How? they are hunting down endangered animals for their parts for stupid Chinese medicines that actually do nothing, they are aware that it's illegal. The park ranger isn't just going to walk up do them and be like "Sir, could you not do that please". Because he is going to get shot at, so naturally the rangers are going to shoot back. Also with the death policy for poachers in a wildlife park its pretty much a no boner.[/QUOTE]
Let me preface this by saying that I agree that the response was warranted and the poachers were responsible for their own deaths.
I spent three years living in Nairobi, Kenya, and another two in Dar-Es-Salaam, Tanzania. Of all the animals that live in the Serengeti areas of those countries, elephants are the most prominent. Seriously, there are a LOT of elephants. I think I only ever saw a rhino once or twice, while elephants could be found absolutely everywhere. That's not to say that they're not endangered or should be shot for useless bullshit homeopathic medicine, but missing from these discussions is a bit of context. The number of elephants has risen significantly in the past two decades or so as conservation efforts have been successful, and there have even been some times when the number has had to be culled to prevent them from destroying local vegetation and driving other animals out.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's not like these guys were trying to hunt pandas, rhinos, or other extremely rare, heavily endangered animals. What they did was still a crime, but I think Kenya needs to be focusing more on restriction of hunting and jail times for poachers, not simply shooting them when necessary.
The exportation of ivory is a job done by professionals, not random village idiots looking for a quick buck, so these aren't desperate groups of the poor just trying to stay alive. They take the ivory and don't even use the meat, just let the carcasses rot. And they are not so dedicated to their job that they'll die for it, although they will of course fight in self defense.
tl;dr Kenya needs to institute more judicial and legal methods of opposing poaching a species that is recovering and not in such extreme danger that shooting all would-be poachers is necessary.
Edit: Oh yeah, Kenyan rangers are badass guys with a near-thankless job that puts them in danger every day. I have a ton of respect for them and what they do.
I wish parts of Asia weren't so obessed with eating or mashing up rare shit so their dick will grow. It's fucking pathetic.
This has been happening for years, it's nothing different. The game wardens hunt poachers and kill them on the spot basically.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
