Valve has a new "Agreement Binding Arbitration Clause" and it's not good at all.
179 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Clementine;37029065]Yeah where did I say that they took away our right to sue them?
Here's a box for being an idiot.[/QUOTE]
You said it right here...
[QUOTE=Clementine;37028608]That is the most idiotic reason to not be upset about your rights being taken away
"Oh yeah I can't say whatever I want here in Sweden, doesn't really matter though because what do I have to complain about!"[/QUOTE]
"That is the most idiotic reason to not be upset about your [B]rights being taken away[/B]"
Your rights are hardly being taken away. Read the official notice.
They're agreeing to fix the issue and reimburse you, while paying for your legal fees if you still want to sue.
(If the suit meets their criteria for viable action.)
Listen, OP. You don't like Steam. I can respect that.
But treating them like Stalin for them basically saying "stop suing us over stupid shit" is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation]defamation[/url] - specifically, libel. While I don't think it's illegal to print libel against a corporation (yet), it's still a fucking stupid move and will only make you untrustworthy.
From now on every time you post an article I'm going to link back to this and ask why we should trust you or your source.
[QUOTE=lavacano;37029371]Listen, OP. You don't like Steam. I can respect that.
But treating them like Stalin for them basically saying "stop suing us over stupid shit" is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation]defamation[/url] - specifically, libel. While I don't think it's illegal to print libel against a corporation (yet), it's still a fucking stupid move and will only make you untrustworthy.
From now on every time you post an article I'm going to link back to this and ask why we should trust you or your source.[/QUOTE]
Chances are the OP might've came from 4chan. There was a /v/ thread about it. There's a screenshot of it somewhere.
[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;37029389]Chances are the OP might've came from 4chan. There was a /v/ thread about it. There's a screenshot of it somewhere.[/QUOTE]Something I've been trying to figure out for a while now, is there just some random guy who takes screenshots of every single thread that appears on 4chan? It seems like there is never a thread that goes with a screenshot.
[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;37029389]Chances are the OP might've came from 4chan. There was a /v/ thread about it. There's a screenshot of it somewhere.[/QUOTE]
There were 5 threads about it using the same sensationalist headline. Some people tried to explain how this basically changes nothing but too many people were screaming "Herp derp valve is taking away our freedom". People bandwagon so hard that they don't even bother reading the actual thing they are complaining about.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37029456]Something I've been trying to figure out for a while now, is there just some random guy who takes screenshots of every single thread that appears on 4chan? It seems like there is never a thread that goes with a screenshot.[/QUOTE]
There are probably several random people that decide to screenshot the threads that'll spark outrage and/or hilarity as 4chan kills posting in those threads after a few hours, so you won't be able to see it without a screenshot or one of the archiving sites.
[QUOTE=imasillypiggy;37029467]There were 5 threads about it using the same sensationalist headline. Some people tried to explain how this basically changes nothing but too many people were screaming "Herp derp valve is taking away our freedom". People bandwagon so hard that they don't even bother reading the actual thing they are complaining about.[/QUOTE]
What do you expect? /v/ had gone down the shitter a long time ago. It's pretty much /b/ 2.0.
And by the way, as pointed out, Kotaku is a terrible source, and as such, the article is a STEAMing pile of shit.
The changes themselves though do spark some debate.
I'm not sure anyone here actually read the agreement. Valve is waiving your rights to file a class action lawsuit against them and instead forcing you to go through arbitration outside of court. I don't really see how this benefits the customer in any way, but for most people it isn't a big deal either. I also think that people would probably be pissed if anyone but Valve did this.
[QUOTE=wickedplayer494;37029581]And by the way, as pointed out, Kotaku is a terrible source, and as such, the article is a STEAMing pile of shit.
The changes themselves though do spark some debate.[/QUOTE]
I for one refuse to acknowledge such a debate until I see an unbiased source.
If someone has a text copy of the old SSA around (doubt it but hey), I can use a diff tool (I'd rather not read through all 13 sections again just to play Spot The Difference).
[QUOTE=Falubii;37029654]I'm not sure anyone here actually read the agreement. Valve is waiving your rights to file a class action lawsuit against them and instead forcing you to go through arbitration outside of court. I don't really see how this benefits the customer in any way, but for most people it isn't a big deal either. I also think that people would probably be pissed if anyone but Valve did this.[/QUOTE]Yeah, we have, hence why we've been quoting it in the thread.
[QUOTE=lavacano;37029662]If someone has a text copy of the old SSA around (doubt it but hey), I can use a diff tool (I'd rather not read through all 13 sections again just to play Spot The Difference).[/QUOTE]
There's always the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine.
[QUOTE=Falubii;37029654]I'm not sure anyone here actually read the agreement. Valve is waiving your rights to file a class action lawsuit against them and instead forcing you to go through arbitration outside of court. I don't really see how this benefits the customer in any way, but for most people it isn't a big deal either. I also think that people would probably be pissed if anyone but Valve did this.[/QUOTE]
You can also go through small claims court and most people don't have the money to actually do a class action lawsuit. This is mainly to stop things like patent trolls.
[QUOTE=Falubii;37029654]I'm not sure anyone here actually read the agreement. Valve is waiving your rights to file a class action lawsuit against them and instead forcing you to go through arbitration outside of court. I don't really see how this benefits the customer in any way, but for most people it isn't a big deal either. I also think that people would probably be pissed if anyone but Valve did this.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]This Section does not prevent you from bringing your dispute to the attention of any federal, state, or local government agencies that can, if the law allows, seek relief from us for you[/QUOTE]
They won't allow you to file a class action lawsuit, they made that abundantly clear.
Well, I've never had an issue with Steam, guess I don't really mind, if I have a problem and it gets resolved that's pretty much good enough for me.
I'm totally sure their reasons are totally legit and it's not just because they'd win a disturbing amount of times in individual arbitration.
[QUOTE=FlakAttack;37028487]When Sony/EA did this, most of FP flipped their shit. Steam does it, it's ok? Please explain to me how in any way at all it's ok that by clicking "I Agree" you just signed away your right to use the justice system.[/QUOTE]
I love how people think they are clever because they think they found something hypocritical about Steam, but in reality they wrong or misinformed
[QUOTE]Valve have announced changes to Steam's subscriber agreement that seek to prohibit users from filing lawsuits against the company.[/QUOTE]
most sensationalist statement all years
Very decent example of how some of facepunch (and most of the internet okay) is okay with valve raping their pets because it's valve/not EA
Kotaku's a terrible source anyway.
They're just protecting themselves from the idiocy that is the American legal system. Can't blame them.
Not like it matters, do people really believe that ToS' are the word of God or something? Writing in the ToS that you can't be sued (or sued in certain ways) won't stop anything. No court will drop a case because the ToS says so.
Also the fact that it's not what the article makes it seem to be.
[QUOTE=lavacano;37029371]Listen, OP. You don't like Steam. I can respect that.
But treating them like Stalin for them basically saying "stop suing us over stupid shit" is [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defamation]defamation[/url] - specifically, libel. While I don't think it's illegal to print libel against a corporation (yet), it's still a fucking stupid move and will only make you untrustworthy.
From now on every time you post an article I'm going to link back to this and ask why we should trust you or your source.[/QUOTE]
Hey man I love steam, I think it's the best service on pc and I'll admit that I'm a band wagoner. I said I'm sorry and not gonna bother to link Kotaku as a news source. Some users are a little troubled that steam acted this way? And again sorry guys
[b]Hey everyone look at this:[/b]
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1149070[/url]
[QUOTE=TheJoker;33807986][QUOTE]In September, Sony updated its PlayStation Network terms of service to prevent class-action lawsuits. Now that change has itself instigated a class-action lawsuit.
According to court documents obtained by GameSpot, a Northern California man filed suit against Sony late last month on behalf of all customers who purchased a PlayStation 3 and signed up for PSN access before the September change to Sony's terms of service. The suit alleges that Sony engaged in unfair business practices by forcing consumers to either give up their right to file a class-action lawsuit or give up access to the online gaming network they effectively paid for when they purchased the hardware.
The suit says Sony buried the clause section describing the changes near the bottom of a 21-page form viewable through the PS3 and neglected to post an easily accessible version of the form online, even though it had done so with past user agreement updates. While the suit notes that Sony allowed an opt out from the class-action provision, the only way for consumers to do that was to contact the company in writing (no emails, phone calls, or online forms accepted) within 30 days.
Sony had not responded to a request for comment as of press time.[/QUOTE]
Source
[url]http://www.gamespot.com/news/sony-sued-over-terms-of-service-update-6347852?tag=updates%3Beditor%3Ball%3Btitle%3B5[/url][/QUOTE]
Some Facepunch responses:
[QUOTE=zombini;33808009]Dumb thing to put in a TOS anyways. Honestly, this in it's self should be outright illegal. Saying you cannot sue them if something happens and you either lose money or property is like saying, "Fuck you, we could 'Accidentally' delete your account and there's nothing you can do about it".[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=OogalaBoogal;33808033]Sony's legal department is ridiculous.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Tigster;33808063]Good.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jordguitar;33808093]good thing i opted out anyways![/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Jax Strife;33808098]Sony's defenses sound like 11 year olds arguing "NUH HUH YOU CANT SUE ME, BECAUSE I SAID SO"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=DiscoBiscut;33808178]"Ok guys new rule no one can sue"[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Spacewolf;33808196]Good. I hope this goes somewhere, it's not exactly easy for one man to take on a company like sony.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=J!NX;33808263]This is pretty bad ass.[/QUOTE]
That was 8 months ago. Don't even pretend Valve isn't getting special treatment here.
[QUOTE=Doctor Zedacon;37028082]Which may mean better pricing for you Europeans with your silly currencies.[/QUOTE]
Luxembourg is kinda the fiscal paradise of the EU so I have my doubts about that
[QUOTE=Clavus;37031028]They're just protecting themselves from the idiocy that is the American legal system. Can't blame them.[/QUOTE]
As the post above mine points out, when it's Sony or EA doing this stuff... [IMG]http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Falubii;37031613][b]Hey everyone look at this:[/b]
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1149070[/url]
Some Facepunch responses:
That was 8 months ago. Don't even pretend Valve isn't getting special treatment here.[/QUOTE]
Because it's not like context matters or anything!
[QUOTE=Falubii;37031613][b]Hey everyone look at this:[/b]
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1149070[/url]
Some Facepunch responses:
That was 8 months ago. Don't even pretend Valve isn't getting special treatment here.[/QUOTE]
I was just looking for that, thanks.
In any case, I pretty much think this is bullshit. What if Valve has a similar incident like Sony had and has its users info and credentials leaked? This is a very reasonable case for a class action lawsuit, and they're basically saying "welp, if we fuck up royally, non of that is our fault".
It's stupid.
Nothing there was taken out of context. If you think something was then by all means point it out. Sony had amended a clause to their EULA that waived the end user's right to file a class action lawsuit. If they didn't agree they couldn't use PSN. If you don't agree with Valve's amendment to the EULA that also waives the end user's right to file a class action law suit, you aren't able to use Steam.
Personally, I don't think it's a big deal to add that to the EULA, but there is a pretty obvious double standard on this forum.
[QUOTE=MaxOfS2D;37031695]Luxembourg is kinda the fiscal paradise of the EU so I have my doubts about that
As the post above mine points out, when it's Sony or EA doing this stuff... [IMG]http://fi.somethingawful.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
One thing is stopping greedy people from abusing the system to sue and get lots of undeserved cash without outlawing it, and another is removing the ability to sue the company in any sort of way, even if customers have the right to do so.
[QUOTE=Malvodion;37031794]One thing is stopping greedy people from abusing the system to sue and get lots of undeserved cash without outlawing it, and another is removing the ability to sue the company in any sort of way, even if customers have the right to do so.[/QUOTE]
Sony didn't remove the right to sue them, they just removed the right to file a class action lawsuit. Just like Valve is doing now.
[QUOTE=Malvodion;37031794]One thing is stopping greedy people from abusing the system to sue and get lots of undeserved cash without outlawing it, and another is removing the ability to sue the company in any sort of way, even if customers have the right to do so.[/QUOTE]
So of course, what you're saying is that it's okay because it's Valve that's doing it.
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