• Valve has a new "Agreement Binding Arbitration Clause" and it's not good at all.
    179 replies, posted
[QUOTE=Falubii;37032291]I think Valve's lawyers will probably destroy the consumer in arbitration most of the time.[/QUOTE] do you know what arbitration is or did you learn law from svu?
[QUOTE=SEKCobra;37036215]Well what if they shut down like 1000 people's accounts because they idled on TF2 servers or something.[/QUOTE] smart people have a separate account for that
I knew I should have read it before I decided to agree.
fuck i restarted steam by accident, now i have to agree to it
[QUOTE=LtKyle2;37033334]So this is just to stop troll cases in America, I'm okay with this.[/QUOTE]How does this stop Valve from (potentially) being sued from litigious trolls? (Hint: It doesn't)
I'm pretty sure that courts have already consistently ruled that you cannot sell or give up your rights, which includes your right to legal action.
[QUOTE=LordCrypto;37041141]do you know what arbitration is or did you learn law from svu?[/QUOTE] No please explain my stupid brain can't figure it out.
I see nothing wrong with this [editline]2nd August 2012[/editline] [QUOTE=Falubii;37042019]No please explain my stupid brain can't figure it out.[/QUOTE] Two parties have a disagreement. A mediator between the two helps settle the disagreement out of court by coming to a compromise. (for example, between a labor union and management. Teddy Roosevelt brought Unions and Employers together for arbitration)
[QUOTE=demoguy08;37032963]Wow the facepunchian devotion to Valve and Steam has reached religious levels meanwhile if [I]anyone[/I] else took away consumer rights in this manner you'd all be going apeshit. Yeah Valve has made some great games and Steam is generally a good platform but unconditional loyalty doesn't benefit anyone.[/QUOTE] Difference being Valve is the only corporation with a clause like this (that I'm aware of) that [b]isn't[/b] likely to use shit like this to violate your human rights.
[QUOTE=lavacano;37045317]Difference being Valve is the only corporation with a clause like this (that I'm aware of) that [b]isn't[/b] likely to use shit like this to violate your human rights.[/QUOTE] "Cannot" and "will not" are two VERY different things. We're not arguing that they will, we're arguing that it's wrong that they can in the first place. I don't much care whether they will or will not.
[QUOTE=Grimreaperx1;37027692]I'm not saying I agree with them, but class action lawsuits are really dumb. The lawyers are the real ones who benefit, not the clients.[/QUOTE] So you're saying class action lawsuits weren't helpful in defeating segregation? Brown v Board of Education was a class action suit.
Most they can do is disable your account if you sue them. An EULA isn't even a real agreement as your signature is not involved. They can write whatever they want but they cannot enforce it outside their service. I wouldn't worry about such clauses because 1. You're not suing valve 2. If you were, you probably wouldn't have a library of games I can understand why they did this. Class action lawsuits most of the time are ridiculous and Valve would prefer to deal with the issue privately. In the end you can sue them anyway so I don't know what this fuss is about. If someone in court says "but he signed TOS that says he can't sue us", the judge will laugh his ass off. And before valve fanboy, this goes for any service that has this in their tos. Hell blizzard has ownership over my soul, we'll see if that TOS stands when I'm dead :v:
[QUOTE=itisjuly;37048082]Most they can do is disable your account if you sue them. An EULA isn't even a real agreement as your signature is not involved. They can write whatever they want but they cannot enforce it outside their service. I wouldn't worry about such clauses because 1. You're not suing valve 2. If you were, you probably wouldn't have a library of games I can understand why they did this. Class action lawsuits most of the time are ridiculous and Valve would prefer to deal with the issue privately. In the end you can sue them anyway so I don't know what this fuss is about. If someone in court says "but he signed TOS that says he can't sue us", the judge will laugh his ass off. And before valve fanboy, this goes for any service that has this in their tos. Hell blizzard has ownership over my soul, we'll see if that TOS stands when I'm dead :v:[/QUOTE] Exactly, they can deactivate your account, thereby making you unable to use all your Steam purchases. That's quite heavy. No one's saying you can't sue Valve. You can't sue Valve without repercussions.
[QUOTE=acds;37031089]Not like it matters, do people really believe that ToS' are the word of God or something? Writing in the ToS that you can't be sued (or sued in certain ways) won't stop anything. No court will drop a case because the ToS says so. Also the fact that it's not what the article makes it seem to be.[/QUOTE] People probably think that if a ToS says they on you and will use you in a human centipede nobody can stop them. [QUOTE=Glorbo;37031755]I was just looking for that, thanks. In any case, I pretty much think this is bullshit. What if Valve has a similar incident like Sony had and has its users info and credentials leaked? This is a very reasonable case for a class action lawsuit, and they're basically saying "welp, if we fuck up royally, non of that is our fault". It's stupid.[/QUOTE] the difference is that sony never told anyone when it happened, Valve would however, and even told people that "CC data may have been compromised as well" during a forum leak.
[QUOTE=DrTaxi;37048137]Exactly, they can deactivate your account, thereby making you unable to use all your Steam purchases. That's quite heavy. No one's saying you can't sue Valve. You can't sue Valve without repercussions.[/QUOTE] If it's a valid lawsuit you will get enough money to buy all these games two or more times. If on the other hand it's an invalid lawsuit, you had it coming. The whole point of this update is so valve doesn't get constantly sued for bullshit reasons.
Half the time these 'agreements' are not enforceable in European courts since Valve'd some how have to prove that we read it
[QUOTE=Rellow;37027680]cue everyone saying that valve couldn't possibly ever do anything bad they probably won't now, but you never know what might happen in the future[/QUOTE] Because... Gabe won't live forever :'( only in our hearts. When he's gone I just hope he gets replaced by someone as good as him at what they do.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;37048905]If it's a valid lawsuit you will get enough money to buy all these games two or more times. If on the other hand it's an invalid lawsuit, you had it coming. The whole point of this update is so valve doesn't get constantly sued for bullshit reasons.[/QUOTE] And the court's never wrong... Also Valve has better lawyers. The chance of losing a lawsuit even if they're right will probably keep a lot of people from filing one. And then there's games that require Steam, your account with all its achievements and friends and statistics and Steam Cloud saves etc., that can't be bought back either.
Just an update here's [url="http://i.imgur.com/bXcxw.jpg"]understandable version[/url] of the agreement Also here's a statement when you decline to agree with the condition [img]http://i.imgur.com/YM7Hq.png[/img] If you live in Europe you can get a refund a lost game on your account, without any warning for 7 days [img]http://i.imgur.com/Zx8eR.png[/img]
[QUOTE=warneccruid;37088944]Just an update here's [url="http://i.imgur.com/bXcxw.jpg"]understandable version[/url] of the agreement Also here's a statement when you decline to agree with the condition [img]http://i.imgur.com/YM7Hq.png[/img] [/QUOTE] I've seen quite a bit of complaining about not being able to access your games if you disagree with the new terms. I don't see what the problem with it is. You agree to the terms or you don't get access. You don't get to choose to use an older set of terms just because you don't like the current ones. If you are making a new account and you disagree you don't get to use steam either, it's the same situation here.
I do find it dirty tactics how they refuse a refund until you push law in their face.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;37091108]I do find it dirty tactics how they refuse a refund until you push law in their face.[/QUOTE] I think the first reply isn't actually from whatever the hell support guy you get assigned, ever. Instead they first have an automated system check for key terms like "refund", etc, because they figure most people who use Steam Support have the same or a very similar problem to like 1,500 other people at that moment, and an automated system helps clear out the general cases.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;37091108]I do find it dirty tactics how they refuse a refund until you push law in their face.[/QUOTE] The thing is that under US law (and their own agreement) they aren't obliged to refund you, its just an oddity of English law that anything you purchase from a distance (ie over the internet or via mail order) has a 7 day cooling off period.
Honestly, this doesn't affect the majority of Steam users. Unless you want to sue for "damages".
[QUOTE=Jsm;37092744]The thing is that under US law (and their own agreement) they aren't obliged to refund you, its just an oddity of English law that anything you purchase from a distance (ie over the internet or via mail order) has a 7 day cooling off period.[/QUOTE] Which I do find weird. There should be a refund period for any purchase.
I still enjoy Valve.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;37095905]Which I do find weird. There should be a refund period for any purchase.[/QUOTE] I agree, seeing as Valve knows what they are doing with DRM they can easily remove a purchase from an account and make it impossible to access said purchase so they can't use that argument that you can make with physical software purchases.
[QUOTE=nightlord;37091021]I've seen quite a bit of complaining about not being able to access your games if you disagree with the new terms. I don't see what the problem with it is.[/QUOTE] You don't see the problem with paying for something and then having what you paid for change? Actually, scratch that, in the market for a used car?
So. I've managed to go some time now without updating or accepting their new agreement. -shrug-
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