Israel confiscates oxygen machines donated to Palestinian hospitals - Polidicks

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22937974] [highlight]OXYGEN IS A POWERFUL EXPLOSIVE. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE BEWTEEN LETTING IT IN AND OTHER THINGS WHICH ARE FAR HARDER TO TURN INTO WEAPONS.[/highlight][/QUOTE] Your in a warzone with even higher power, actual explosives just lying around. "Hey guys, lets go through the time and effort to smuggle in these machines that can't even do what we need to make oxygen bombs! Makes perfect sense!"

[QUOTE=BagMinge101;22939092]These are machines that take in air and pump it through a tube. they aren't powerful enough to compress air to the point where it could be used as a weapon.[/QUOTE] fucking this, you just made Devodiere and I look retarded. I guess I just wanted to try and reason with his view instead of thinking of how it could be entirely invalid.

[QUOTE=Sporkfire;22939195]fucking this, you just made Devodiere and I look retarded. I guess I just wanted to try and reason with his view instead of thinking of how it could be entirely invalid.[/QUOTE] At least you had some logic on your side.

[QUOTE=BagMinge101;22939092]These are machines that take in air and pump it through a tube. they aren't powerful enough to compress air to the point where it could be used as a weapon.[/QUOTE] In the article they're referring to the [I]attached[/I] generators, so maybe they mean a gas-powered generator or something that comes with the air compressor package? I don't know, either way it's ridiculous to deny medical care to somebody just because your country is a paranoid fuckfest. :sigh:

[QUOTE=lorden;22939331]In the article they're referring to the [I]attached[/I] generators, so maybe they mean a gas-powered generator or something that comes with the air compressor package? I don't know, either way it's ridiculous to deny medical care to somebody just because your country is a paranoid fuckfest. :sigh:[/QUOTE] The generators are there in case of a power-outage, which in a warzone happens a lot.

[QUOTE=lorden;22938903]You don't draw the line when it comes to medical care. If you can save somebody's life, you do it. Sure, the pure compressed oxygen [B]can[/B] be weaponized, but it [B]will[/B] save a life, and probably many more. You really need to feel some empathy, you should never deny help for somebody just because somebody [I]might[/I] use your medical care maliciously.[/QUOTE] I'm inclined to draw the line when there is a decent chance I'm being taken for a sucker. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who would need these machines I'm not sure that the aid will actually get to them. There's no point trying to help if it's not going to do anything and possibly help a terrorist group. Sending vaccines to African countries is well meaning and for the good of the people but the ones in charge are likely to just sell them on the black market and buy more weapons. If there is some guarantee that it will actually be effective, then I support it fully. [QUOTE=Sporkfire;22938935]Devodiere can you explain the process for making these "bombs", it doesn't appear to be anywhere near as easy as you have made it to be. please explain.[/QUOTE] Oxygen is a fairly simple one; it burns quickly, makes a nice flame and doesn't require any treatment. I'm not sure about making more volatile substances with it but all you need is an igniter or to place it next to another explosive but the Oxygen itself burns rather nicely. Apollo 1 exploded on the launchpad because they made the cockpit with high oxygen levels and the equipment sparked.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22939423]I'm inclined to draw the line when there is a decent chance I'm being taken for a sucker. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who would need these machines I'm not sure that the aid will actually get to them. There's no point trying to help if it's not going to do anything and possibly help a terrorist group. Sending vaccines to African countries is well meaning and for the good of the people but the ones in charge are likely to just sell them on the black market and buy more weapons. If there is some guarantee that it will actually be effective, then I support it fully. Oxygen is a fairly simple one; it burns quickly, makes a nice flame and doesn't require any treatment. I'm not sure about making more volatile substances with it but all you need is an igniter or to place it next to another explosive but the Oxygen itself burns rather nicely. Apollo 1 exploded on the launchpad because they made the cockpit with high oxygen levels and the equipment sparked.[/QUOTE] Read my posts. These machines can't be used to make fucking oxygen bombs.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22939423]I'm inclined to draw the line when there is a decent chance I'm being taken for a sucker. While I'm sure there are plenty of people who would need these machines I'm not sure that the aid will actually get to them. There's no point trying to help if it's not going to do anything and possibly help a terrorist group. Sending vaccines to African countries is well meaning and for the good of the people but the ones in charge are likely to just sell them on the black market and buy more weapons. If there is some guarantee that it will actually be effective, then I support it fully. Oxygen is a fairly simple one; it burns quickly, makes a nice flame and doesn't require any treatment. I'm not sure about making more volatile substances with it but all you need is an igniter or to place it next to another explosive but the Oxygen itself burns rather nicely. Apollo 1 exploded on the launchpad because they made the cockpit with high oxygen levels and the equipment sparked.[/QUOTE] so chance of going to help hamas = don't send the machines you're not doing this right

[QUOTE=BagMinge101;22939159]Your in a warzone with even higher power, actual explosives just lying around. "Hey guys, lets go through the time and effort to smuggle in these machines that can't even do what we need to make oxygen bombs! Makes perfect sense!"[/QUOTE] Actually they are in a bit of a drought with explosives. Other than the tunnels which are getting harder to use there aren't too many explosives available. Mind showing me some proof that the machines they are using aren't capable of it? I'm perfectly ok if they aren't but I assumed from Israel banning them and the lack of any indication to what model they are that they were capable.

[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;22939487]so chance of going to help hamas = don't send the machines you're not doing this right[/QUOTE] Why don't we stop sending food, medicine, and shelter. They might be used by terry-wrists!

[QUOTE=PrismatexV8;22939487]so chance of going to help hamas = don't send the machines you're not doing this right[/QUOTE] I would prefer to see it done right rather than send as much aid as possible and let it go to waste.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22939547]I would prefer to see it done right rather than send as much aid as possible and let it go to waste.[/QUOTE] oh come on it's the norwegian group's machines, let them decide to risk sending it

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22939527]Actually they are in a bit of a drought with explosives. Other than the tunnels which are getting harder to use there aren't too many explosives available. Mind showing me some proof that the machines they are using aren't capable of it? I'm perfectly ok if they aren't but I assumed from Israel banning them and the lack of any indication to what model they are that they were capable.[/QUOTE] can you defend and say the same thing when someone you love can't breathe without artificial support?

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22939527]Actually they are in a bit of a drought with explosives. Other than the tunnels which are getting harder to use there aren't too many explosives available. Mind showing me some proof that the machines they are using aren't capable of it? I'm perfectly ok if they aren't but I assumed from Israel banning them and the lack of any indication to what model they are that they were capable.[/QUOTE] They are regulated to put out at around 1.36 times atmospheric pressure: wikipeidia [quote]The simplest oxygen concentrator is capable of continuous delivery of oxygen and has internal functions based around two cylinders, filled with a zeolite material, which selectively adsorbs the nitrogen in the air. In each cycle, air flows through one cylinder at a pressure of around 20 lbf/in² (138 kPa, or 1.36 atmospheres) where the nitrogen molecules are captured by the zeolite, while the other cylinder is vented off to ambient atmospheric pressure allowing the captured nitrogen to dissipate.[/quote] Oxygen does not become explosive at this compression. Before you ask, no, they cannot be modified to do more. You'd have to start going and replacing the parts, which at that point you'd just make your own machine.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22939527]Actually they are in a bit of a drought with explosives. Other than the tunnels which are getting harder to use there aren't too many explosives available. Mind showing me some proof that the machines they are using aren't capable of it? I'm perfectly ok if they aren't but I assumed from Israel banning them and the lack of any indication to what model they are that they were capable.[/QUOTE] or they could just use nitrate explosives or anfo

Looks like they're out of breathing room.

Assholes. That's just cruel.

-snip-

[QUOTE=BagMinge101;22939596]They are regulated to put out at around 1.36 times atmospheric pressure: wikipeidia Oxygen does not become explosive at this compression.[/QUOTE] Fair enough then, if they aren't capable of any kind of use other than medical use then it's just Israel being paranoid. I guess they didn't look on wikipedia either. [editline]12:44PM[/editline] [QUOTE=Sporkfire;22939641]So if they can't use them to make bombs what will they do? Sell them? That will certainly help their public opinion. Before you dare mention the seizure of the flotilla's supplies remember they were withholding it for political reasons not for sale. Might as well not send any aid though right?[/QUOTE] Since they can't buy weapons they have no reason to sell them. I was just using it as an analogy for the way aid is improperly used in third world countries. As mentioned a few pages back though, it's not a take it or leave it scenario. Aid in poor African countries is sometimes kept under strict control of Humanitarian groups who keep it from being improperly used and make the most of it. Not really a big deal with this as there are more expensive machines they can sell and if they are useless to them, they don't even need security on it.

Devodiere, Oxygen is not an [U]explosive.[/U] It is an [U]accelerant.[/U] You yourself said that it makes a good flame, but that is completely different from violently exploding. It will not create a shockwave. It will not fling shrapnel. All it can do is feed a flame. Apollo 1 did not explode, the cabin caught fire. This happened because it was an airtight, oxygen rich environment and a spark set it off. How are you supposed to create an airtight oxygen rich environment in the middle of an Israeli street? And even if you did, all you would have is an intense fire, NOT an explosion.

Oh God. Please don't tell me [del]we[/del] someone is justifying the ban on oxygen machines because they can be turned into weapons.

[QUOTE=starpluck;22941963]Oh God. Please don't tell me [del]we[/del] someone is justifying the ban on oxygen machines because they can be turned into weapons.[/QUOTE] That's stopped, but we can always look forward to BurnEmDown when he gets unbanned.

Israel needs to fuck off. There is no way an oxygen condenser could be used as a weapon. If anyone attacks Israel they should receive no aid from the US.

Do I see a propeller fan on that photo? The cover can be removed and unguarded propeller can be potentially used as brutal weapon! Or they might use the propeller to construct a bomber! [b]CONFISCATE! CONFISCATE! CONFISCATE![/b]

they might built an aircraft carrier out of toothpicks, get rid of all the toothpicks!!

Israel never cease to amaze me.

[QUOTE=wonkadonk;22942370]they might built an aircraft carrier out of toothpicks, get rid of all the toothpicks!![/QUOTE] Man I tell you take them the propeller before it's too late!

The Palestinians are 'out of breath'

[quote]The generators "came under the category of possible use for non-medical purposes"[/quote] They're full of hot air

I guess they took their breathe away.