Israel confiscates oxygen machines donated to Palestinian hospitals - Polidicks

...Deviodre, how the fuck can you be an apologist for this?

[QUOTE=Chippay;22936803]watch the filth on this forum try to defend this[/QUOTE] check out this post btw deviodre you're fucking filth

Filthy Israel apologists, how dare they not become outraged at every assumed evil that Israel probably did because they are meanies. Makes me sick.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22943773]Filthy Israel apologists, how dare they not become outraged at every assumed evil that Israel probably did because they are meanies. Makes me sick.[/QUOTE] This isn't just some assumed evil or some odd small thing, this is denying basic medical needs.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22943828]This isn't just some assumed evil or some odd small thing, this is denying basic medical needs.[/QUOTE] Of course. It's simpler to just say "They did it because they are Apartheid Zionists getting revenge for the Holocaust" instead of actually trying to understand why. Oversimplification of the issue brings it back to good and evil which is easy to understand.

Explain THIS one, BurnEmDown. Oh wait, your banned. Boo fucking hoo.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22943904]Of course. It's simpler to just say "They did it because they are Apartheid Zionists getting revenge for the Holocaust" instead of actually trying to understand why. Oversimplification of the issue brings it back to good and evil which is easy to understand.[/QUOTE] There isn't a good reason. There might be a shitty reason that results in them not being evil, but there's definitely not a good reason. For example, they might have thought it could compress oxygen so it could be used to catalyze (Not fuel as you seem to think it does.) rockets or weapons, and banned it due to not bothering to find out the actual information. But that still is a horrible reason and someone should face punitive action for fucking up if that happened.

Fucking news like this leaves me breathless.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22944011]There isn't a good reason. There might be a shitty reason that results in them not being evil, but there's definitely not a good reason.[/QUOTE] Obviously they thought the same as me, that they could purify Oxygen to a level where it could be explosive with these machines, either they didn't do much research on it or they think they could jury rig it somehow so they didn't let it through. It's not a good reason but it's understandable how they could be worried about Hamas using them to produce large and explosive ammounts of Oxygen. It's a poor reason to do it given further evidence but given what they knew, it's an understandable descision. It wasn't for any reason like preventing care from getting to Gazans or Zionist apartheid, it was to prevent arms from getting to their enemy and possibly save the lives of Israelis. Don't sook about how they consider Israelis better or they think Gazans are terrorists, it is their duty to protect Israelis and there are plenty of people there who would have used it as a weapon if they could.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22944133]Obviously they thought the same as me, that they could purify Oxygen to a level where it could be explosive with these machines, either they didn't do much research on it or they think they could jury rig it somehow so they didn't let it through. It's not a good reason but it's understandable how they could be worried about Hamas using them to produce large and explosive ammounts of Oxygen. It's a poor reason to do it given further evidence but given what they knew, it's an understandable descision. It wasn't for any reason like preventing care from getting to Gazans or Zionist apartheid, it was to prevent arms from getting to their enemy and possibly save the lives of Israelis. Don't sook about how they consider Israelis better or they think Gazans are terrorists, it is their duty to protect Israelis and there are plenty of people there who would have used it as a weapon if they could.[/QUOTE] That's a shitty reason. I don't give a fuck, someone needs to at least loose their job over this. They potentially killed people here. Also, oxygen alone is not explosive or combustible.

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22944178]That's a shitty reason. I don't give a fuck, someone needs to at least loose their job over this. They potentially killed people here. Also, oxygen alone is not explosive or combustible.[/QUOTE] Alright then, it's Highly Flamable; either way it's something they can use to possibly kill Israelis. They would of possibly killed Israelis if they let it through without checking anything, they had to do a bit of research into it and work something out for machines like this instead of just confiscating it. You can call for someone to lose their job all you want but the reality is that it wasn't one persons doing, it was part of the bureaucratic system they have where responsiblity is shared around and rules have to be followed. It wasn't anyone in particulars fault, but they still have to make up for it.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22944325]Alright then, it's Highly Flamable; either way it's something they can use to possibly kill Israelis. They would of possibly killed Israelis if they let it through without checking anything, they had to do a bit of research into it and work something out for machines like this instead of just confiscating it. You can call for someone to lose their job all you want but the reality is that it wasn't one persons doing, it was part of the bureaucratic system they have where responsiblity is shared around and rules have to be followed. It wasn't anyone in particulars fault, but they still have to make up for it.[/QUOTE] Someone made the policy too stringent along the way, someone or something needs to be held accountable for the harm that is done. Oxygen is not flammable on its own, it increases the flammability of things around it, and Hamas is not on a technological level where O2 as an oxidizer (ever wonder where the term came from...?) would help them at all. They have no way of storing it, transporting it, or using it in any sort of productive way. Also, if they disallow anything that may potentially be used against them, there's no way that the Palestinians will ever stop hating the Israelis, because very basic things essential for living can be used as weapons. Hell, in my house alone I bet I could make some sort of makeshift explosive that would bring down both my house and a bit of the neighboring one.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22944133]Obviously they thought the same as me, that they could purify Oxygen to a level where it could be explosive with these machines, either they didn't do much research on it or they think they could jury rig it somehow so they didn't let it through. It's not a good reason but it's understandable how they could be worried about Hamas using them to produce large and explosive ammounts of Oxygen. It's a poor reason to do it given further evidence but given what they knew, it's an understandable descision. It wasn't for any reason like preventing care from getting to Gazans or Zionist apartheid, it was to prevent arms from getting to their enemy and possibly save the lives of Israelis. Don't sook about how they consider Israelis better or they think Gazans are terrorists, it is their duty to protect Israelis and there are plenty of people there who would have used it as a weapon if they could.[/QUOTE] Do you know that I am able to create pure oxygen/hydrogen mix using a glass bottle, few pieces of wire and plastic and energy source (or pure oxygen if you wish, I would just need some sort of u-tube, while the mix is more explosive anyway (oxygen alone actually isn't explosive at all)) within 30 minutes of getting the task? Oxygen gas is barely usable as weapon. I think that I would be able to blow up a building with few days of time by generating hydrogen/oxygen gas out of water, accumulating it in the building over time, blowing it up at once, but that would do a terrible combat weapon. The gas is very hard to contain. It would be much easier and safer to make classic gunpowder.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22943904]Of course. It's simpler to just say "They did it because they are Apartheid Zionists getting revenge for the Holocaust" instead of actually trying to understand why. Oversimplification of the issue brings it back to good and evil which is easy to understand.[/QUOTE] Fair enough. Can you explain us the "why" part then? The Vman already pointed out that O2 is not an explosive but an accelerant. Bombs and rockets don't need O2 to work. Also, if terrorists still want O2 to make whatever the fuck they want to make, aren't they better off stealing it from hospitals and clinics? I mean, why confiscate items that are readily available? And please, don't apologize for Israel if the confiscation turns out to be an "error" or "mistake", which is bound to happen. You readily defended Israel's PR line. Just make sure to keep defending it even after Israel admits its mistake. [editline]02:04AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Devodiere;22944325]They [b]would of[/b] possibly killed Israelis...[/QUOTE] Would've.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22943773]Filthy Israel apologists, how dare they not become outraged at every assumed evil that Israel probably did because they are meanies. Makes me sick.[/QUOTE] roll with the punches broheim. you got called out on your defense of an indefensible act and proved to be objectively wrong. now it's time to portray the people who owned you as something they're not so you can feel better about losing a debate. so what if I talked out my ass about oxygen bombs for 3 pages? you guys attack israel every time israel does something wrong. clearly i have the high ground

[QUOTE=Kagrenak;22944420]Someone made the policy too stringent along the way, someone or something needs to be held accountable for the harm that is done. Oxygen is not flammable on its own, it increases the flammability of things around it, and Hamas is not on a technological level where O2 as an oxidizer (ever wonder where the term came from...?) would help them at all. They have no way of storing it, transporting it, or using it in any sort of productive way. Also, if they disallow anything that may potentially be used against them, there's no way that the Palestinians will ever stop hating the Israelis, because very basic things essential for living can be used as weapons. Hell, in my house alone I bet I could make some sort of makeshift explosive that would bring down both my house and a bit of the neighboring one.[/QUOTE] How easy do you think it is to make an Oxygen tank into an explosive? You need to assemble some shrapnel, primary explosive and an ignition source obviously but it's not like that's incredibly hard to do. It doesn't even need to be an actually large bang, just something that looks impressive and is enough to make them scared. They don't disallow everything that can be used against them, that was mentioned earlier in the thread; but there is a scale of things that are easier to use as weapons to things you have to be really creative with. It's going to be a lot harder to kill someone with your own fermented feces than a ready made weapon so why not block off the easier stuff. They have to draw the line somewhere on what is easy to turn into a weapon and oxygen purifiers are too easy to use. [QUOTE=Awesomecaek;22944428]Do you know that I am able to create pure oxygen/hydrogen mix using a glass bottle, few pieces of wire and plastic and energy source (or pure oxygen if you wish, I would just need some sort of u-tube, while the mix is more explosive anyway (oxygen alone actually isn't explosive at all)) within 30 minutes of getting the task?[/QUOTE] Wonderful, I guess they don't need the Oxygen machines at all if it's that easy to produce. The purifiers are far easier to use and are something that can be controlled, just because you can make gunpowder or explosives at home doesn't mean you don't need gun control making it harder for anyone to get hold of them. [QUOTE=BigDumbBear;22944464]Fair enough. Can you explain us the "why" part then? The Vman already pointed out that O2 is not an explosive but an accelerant. Bombs and rockets don't need O2 to work. Also, if terrorists still want O2 to make whatever the fuck they want to make, aren't they better off stealing it from hospitals and clinics? I mean, why confiscate items that are readily available? And please, don't apologize for Israel if the confiscation turns out to be an "error" or "mistake", which is bound to happen. You readily defended Israel's PR line. Just make sure to keep defending it even after Israel admits its mistake.[/quote] O2 isn't highly effective on it's own but it can be used in conjunction with other things to make a decent explosion; if you are short on other explosives then these increase the blast without using too much of your normal stuff. They don't need it to work but it can increase the effectiveness of them greatly. They can't steal it from hospitals and clinics because they don't have them; that is what this is all about. Israel expected Hamas to just confiscate/steal them from the hospitals and use them for their own devices. Israel was the one who confiscated them saying it was considered a weapon. I've already stated that it was an issue of them either not researching what they did or on some paranoid trip about jury rigging them to be useful. I am not following any Israeli PR line and make arguments based on how I see the situation. I defended their descision to stop it from coming in when I thought it was possible that they could be used in this way; when it was found that it was not possible, I changed my argument. If Israel thought that the same, then it was a mistake and for their previous conviction, they would of made the same descision. [QUOTE=Sigma-Lambda;22944656]roll with the punches broheim. you got called out on your defense of an indefensible act and proved to be objectively wrong. now it's time to portray the people who owned you as something they're not so you can feel better about losing a debate. so what if I talked out my ass about oxygen bombs for 3 pages? you guys attack israel every time israel does something wrong. clearly i have the high ground[/QUOTE] You don't understand defending something, do you? Everyone always overreacts claiming the stupidest stuff and filling in the blanks with whatever is convienient to their ideas. I try to give everyone some semblance of reality and the fact that people do things for reasons, not because they are evil. I was not proven wrong as new evidence came to light that changed the scenario; in the previous situation, I stand by what I said. The point I was trying to make is that quite a few people on here seem to think that because I do not openly bash and condemn everything you see as bad, I support it. Criminal defense lawyers do not condone their clients actions despite defending them and I do not support every stupid action Israel takes.

If Israel wanted to do this in a positive way, they should employ their military helicopters to airlift anyone who needs the care their denying to Israeli hospitals and treat them free of charge.

Probably easier to build a Hospital on the border that caters primarily to Gazans. Run by Israel with security all over the place so they are happy and full good equipment with highly trained doctors so the Gazans get good care and are happy. If Hamas tries to do anything to it I can imagine the shitstorm against them for bombing their own people, probably won't get them out but it will dampen their support.

[img]http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.298386.1277530865!/image/2314820866.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_295/2314820866.jpg[/img] We have to take away that bed they might make a missile with it.

[QUOTE=darkzero226;22945369][IMG]http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.298386.1277530865%21/image/2314820866.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_295/2314820866.jpg[/IMG] We have to take away that bed they might make a missile with it.[/QUOTE] No. See those steel bars? They can be used against Israel, confiscate those instead.

You're right! the bars could be used to make rifles! How absurd of me to miss that! But wait! that bottle on the table could be broken and used against israel! take away the bottles as well.

the child can be used as a shield or a blunt weapon

the arm band can be turned into a torture device

[QUOTE=wonkadonk;22945473]the child can be used as a shield or a blunt weapon[/QUOTE] since hes unable to move and too sick to fight he can also be used as building material for a hamas bunker. [QUOTE=darkzero226;22945490]the arm band can be turned into a torture device[/QUOTE] preposterous

dont worry when i think up of something it can be used as i will justify the ban of the object with a new post.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22937200] Most of the hollywood firey explosions are done with oxygyen.[/QUOTE] what the fuck are you talking about

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22936975]So it never occured to anyone that the Oxygen it generates could be used as an explosive?[/QUOTE] I think HE is a bit better. Either way they just took medical equipment from a hospital, if I remember correctly that's a war crime.

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22944325]it's Highly Flamable[/QUOTE] what no it's not it's an oxidant, but what you are talking about is highly pressurized oxygen which acts as a powerful catalyst one problem, it says oxygen machine which doesn't store any kind of pressurized gas [editline]01:49AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Devodiere;22944133]It's not a good reason but it's understandable how they could be worried about Hamas using them to produce large and explosive ammounts of Oxygen. [/QUOTE] you don't even know how oxygen machines work [editline]01:49AM[/editline] or oxygen for that matter

[QUOTE=Devodiere;22944133]Obviously they thought the same as me, that they could purify Oxygen to a level where it could be explosive with these machines, either they didn't do much research on it or they think they could jury rig it somehow so they didn't let it through. It's not a good reason but it's understandable how they could be worried about Hamas using them to produce large and explosive ammounts of Oxygen.[/QUOTE] Dude, just no, oxygen isn't explosive, it helps something burn [U]sometimes[/U] that's it, it's not an explosive element because all it does is aid combustion.

[QUOTE=bravehat;22945991]Dude, just no, oxygen isn't explosive, it helps something burn [U]sometimes[/U] that's it, it's not an explosive element because all it does is aid combustion.[/QUOTE] It's misunderstood. The problem is, that with higher and higher concentration of oxygen in air, everything burns better and better, to the point it practically explodes. For example, I think it was a training run of Apollo crew module on ground. The cabin is filled with pure oxygen for simplified handling of the life support, instead of normal air. Normally harmless jolt happened somewhere in the electronics, and materials inside of the capsule which would normally barely ignite (including the cosmonauts) burned to dust in seconds. Pure oxygen can be [b]potentially[/b] weaponized, but it's dumb and wasteful thing to do.